Author Topic: The liberal vultures are circling.  (Read 54036 times)

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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #375 on: July 06, 2010, 09:17:12 PM »
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However, I continue to note that I may be poor company to you all given that everyone here is perfect and that noone here would ever make any broad-brush, over-generalized comments about anyone.

Oh for cryin' out loud! Now you're paintin' us with your brush! I'll say it again, typical LIB, with a capitol L!

You're a lawyer, and you use noone as one word?
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Offline Carl

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #376 on: July 06, 2010, 09:18:30 PM »
I am not sure why.  I just know that it does.  I don't know if you've studied Shay's Rebellion, the event that caused the founders to get together to create the Constitution, but it porvides a good example of how the wealthy are inclined to use the power of government to enrich themselves if they're not kept in check.  When Jefferson said that an occasional revolution would be a good thing, he was referring specifically to Shay's Rebellion.  Jefferson insisted on our Second Amendment because he knew that the rich would take away every dime and every inch of land that the people had if they were not perpetually afraid that the people would revolt.

In Federalist 10, Madison makes it clear that the new government was designed to prevent "faction," and by that he meant another Shay's Rebellion--an uprising of the people against the wealthy.  Federalist 57 responds to the anti-federalist's fears that the new Constitution would institute an oligarchy (which, it appears, is exactly what happened).  These were very real concerns for the founders.

http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa10.htm
http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa57.htm

-Laelth

There can be abuses everywhere rich and poor but if as you say the general nature of things is for prosperity to go to those that are successful then one needs to be honest about why,and a brush off (they cheat) mindset doesn`t answer the question.

Perhaps it is hard work,ingenuity and belief in capitalism that does it rather then a coerced,government planned system with no incentives.

You have just layed out why Capitalism when allowed will always raise those that are determined and as a corollary why Socialism always condemns the public to subsistence living.

Offline Duchess

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #377 on: July 06, 2010, 09:19:06 PM »
Come on, man.  Seriously.  "Waaaaahhhh!  He called me a racist!  Waaaaahhhh."

Now that's plaing the victim.

-Laelth

No, that's not playing the victim. You can be all kinds of things these days, but mere accusations of racism end careers and destroy reputations. A man was fired for using the perfectly neutral term "niggardly". Racism is the unforgiveable sin these days, an accusation is all it takes, and the accusations most often come from the left. Of course, they forgive their own for saying worse, ie Biden's "articulate and bright and clean". As if we needed assurance that Obama was one of those hygienic black people.

Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #378 on: July 06, 2010, 09:19:58 PM »
He was referring to your response to ME.......and I have never mentioned racism........if you are going to play here, you have to keep the players straight......

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Offline Laelth

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #379 on: July 06, 2010, 09:20:05 PM »
For the sake of maintaining some civility, I will offer this-that the one thing, at a glance, with which I agree is the part I bolded. Contemporary politicians and power brokers are not my heroes, not any of them. Even the few who may begin with good intentions get co-opted by the party once they've been there any length of time. I have no faith in politicians ever making this the world conservatives want it to be, and only what liberals want in a surface way. But then that's my religious beliefs informing my political ones. I believe it will all be one world, or as a President from the right of the spectrum said, a "new world order". I don't believe that will be a good thing at all.

I fear you may be right.  :(

-Laelth
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #380 on: July 06, 2010, 09:26:03 PM »
I fear you may be right.  :(

-Laelth

I haven't seen it yet, did ya ever come up with that list that Liberals think will save our country and the world?

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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #381 on: July 06, 2010, 11:28:58 PM »
I fear you may be right:(

-Laelth

I feel.............. you may not have a clue!

Uh.......... where's that list? Surely someone of your caliber can enlighten us lowly conservatives on the "right' way to save us from ourselves! Aren't you the smartest person in the room? Hell, with you in charge, we would have never had to go thru Reaganomics!
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Offline PatriotGame

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #382 on: July 07, 2010, 12:35:40 AM »
Which one?  That the Democratic Party is now pro-corporate?  For that I give you the Health Insurance Company Enrichment Act.  No self-respecting liberal would order people to buy a product from a private corporation under penalty of law.  No liberal would give the predatory health insurance industry another 30+ million customers.  No liberal would agree to allow the pharmaceutical companies to continue to gouge the American people with drug prices that are higher than any other place in the world.  Yet Obama and his Congress did all of this, and it appears now that they're gearing up to gut (or privatize or both) Social Security--the bedrock of FDR's New Deal.

There are more examples, honestly, but those should be enough to prove my point.  I should hope.

-Laelth
HA HA HA HA HA!!

WTF??? Did you just crawl out of a WWII cave?

WTF do you think *WE* Conservatives have been telling you idiots of the left for the past 50 years?!!!


IT'S THE HYPOCRISY STUPID!

And all this time you thought Lord Zer0, William Ayres, and Rev. Wright were just little racist commies?

THEY ARE CORPORATE WHORE PAWNS!

Oh, and so are you...just on a much lower level...
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Offline PatriotGame

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #383 on: July 07, 2010, 12:40:56 AM »
That may very well be true.  And I don't recall blaming anyone other than the people who misled me--those who told me one thing and did something else entirely.

-Laelth


Sorry to tell you this but ignorance can be cured with education. Stupidity is for life.
Allowing a twisted ideology, liberalism, to make you stupid is no excuse.
As the judge said, "ignorance of the law is no excuse. Stupidity of reality is worse yet.
You have no one to blame but yourself.

I do have to say here though that I admire your willingness to stick with it here and defend your positions. 
           ►☼Liberals Are THE Root of ALL Evil!☼◄

Offline PatriotGame

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #384 on: July 07, 2010, 01:05:26 AM »
Oh for cryin' out loud! Now you're paintin' us with your brush! I'll say it again, typical LIB, with a capitol L!

You're a lawyer, and you use noone as one word?
Shhhh....it's the chew toy that chews itself for ya! Noone can deny the beauty of that... :-)
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #385 on: July 07, 2010, 06:24:38 AM »
I never said I hate the rich.

No, but the tone of your posts says it quite well enough.

I think they should pay the most in taxes,

And they do.

and I think corporations need to be tightly regulated by the state because they are not interested in the common good

Oh goody--perhaps you could describe what "common good" means?  I'll be eagerly awaiting your reply.

(nor should they be, and that's why they need careful regulation).  But we need them, and I have no desire to get rid of them.

Oh, necessary evil.  You're just so ****ing magnanamous.


As much as people here want me to be a socialist, I am not.  I am a liberal.

-Laelth

Different sides of the same coin.
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.”  -Henry Ford

Offline NHSparky

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #386 on: July 07, 2010, 06:27:42 AM »
This is a lot to respond to, but I'd like to give you a thoughtful reply.  I doubt I can give it the time it deserves, however, and I will apologize up front for that.

(Three pages of driveling cut-and-paste later...)


Thanks for the thoughtful post.

-Laelth

 

Jesus, and I thought vesta numbers had some blathering shit that went off on 50 different tangents.

You don't have enough time to give it a reply but spend HOW LONG concocting that drivel?

Drugs are bad, m'kay?
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.”  -Henry Ford

Offline NHSparky

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #387 on: July 07, 2010, 06:31:20 AM »
I deeply, honestly admire the fact that you allow me to post here.  That is impressive, indeed, even if many of you are inexcusably rude.  I would have been banned from Free Republic long ago.

And I will not be held responsible for DU.

-Laelth

Translation: Laelth will not criticize $kimmer in any way, shape, or form, lest she find herself eating the granite cookie.  Walls have ears and all that.
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.”  -Henry Ford

Offline NHSparky

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #388 on: July 07, 2010, 07:25:08 AM »
Oh, and BTW little troll, how can one be a "center-right" president when in 2007 they had the MOST LIBERAL VOTING RECORD IN THE SENATE???

http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/voteratings/
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.”  -Henry Ford

Offline Ballygrl

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #389 on: July 07, 2010, 08:03:51 AM »
Oh, and BTW little troll, how can one be a "center-right" president when in 2007 they had the MOST LIBERAL VOTING RECORD IN THE SENATE???

http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/voteratings/

Well since you mention that, I really would like to know what Obama has done to qualify as a center right President? if he was so much to the center he wouldn't of lost Independents over the past year. And please, no delusions that he lost the Independents because he wasn't leftist enough.
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Offline Revolution

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #390 on: July 07, 2010, 08:12:01 AM »
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And please, no delusions that he lost the Independents because he wasn't leftist enough.

I'm not as deep as some into politics, but I've never heard that ridiculous excuse. How can that statement even be an option for even the most leftist of the left??

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Offline Karin

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #391 on: July 07, 2010, 08:19:05 AM »
Just a comment on those NC Tea Party photos, from the DUmp thread, which portrayed nary a black face.  Do you have any idea, Laelth, the abuse black conservatives experience?  This is an issue that makes my blood boil with rage, the idea that an individual black person is incapable of forming his own beliefs and political views, without the benefit of democratic party spoonfeeding. 

Perhaps there were some black people who wanted to attend, but didn't, because he just didn't want to take the shit and be called an Uncle Tom, or an Oreo. 

Did you see the black guy on TV at a teaparty, when the MSM reporter asked him "are you comfortable here?"  He said, "Yes.  These are my people.  Americans."


Offline Revolution

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #392 on: July 07, 2010, 08:43:13 AM »
Just a comment on those NC Tea Party photos, from the DUmp thread, which portrayed nary a black face.  Do you have any idea, Laelth, the abuse black conservatives experience?  This is an issue that makes my blood boil with rage, the idea that an individual black person is incapable of forming his own beliefs and political views, without the benefit of democratic party spoonfeeding. 

Perhaps there were some black people who wanted to attend, but didn't, because he just didn't want to take the shit and be called an Uncle Tom, or an Oreo. 

Did you see the black guy on TV at a teaparty, when the MSM reporter asked him "are you comfortable here?"  He said, "Yes.  These are my people.  Americans."

Glad you mentioned that, Karin. Meet Zo.

http://www.youtube.com/user/machosauceproduction

:)

:usflag: :salutearmy: :saluteaf: :saluteusmc: :salutenavy: :taps:
THANK YOU for what you do!

soon as you find your manhood all else falls into place.

Quote from: Greg Gutfeld
If Ft. Hood was "workplace violence," then the Hindenburg was an air show.

Guns do not kill people. Rotting, festering, disgusting, grimy, evil, un-reparable souls kill people.

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I don't know if sand glows in the dark, but we're gonna find out.

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Offline Laelth

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #393 on: July 07, 2010, 09:03:41 AM »
Waait a minute? Laelth is touting that he's an independent?  :rotf:

From everything I have seen writen on his part here, he's not independent. In fact, he could only be a little bit more leftist. I've had minor disagreements with thes guys, and most likely will again. No really heated debates so far, but I'm not a BIG righty by any means. I'm not a big lefty by any means. I don't conform strictly to all of either party's ideals. I fall pretty much in the middle. That's why I have yet to have any big arguments with these fire people, and THAT...is a true Independent.

It appears to me that neither major party in this country conforms to their supposed ideals.  That, in part, is why I am here.  "We the People" seem to have no voice in government.

-Laelth
We are all in this boat together.

Offline Laelth

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #394 on: July 07, 2010, 09:26:26 AM »
I'm reeeeeeeeeeeeeeal curious, just what is it that would make you happy? How 'bout a list?

ETA:

Somethin' else I'm curious about, just how much do you and your peers think, say a broken bone, oughta be worth? As much as you can get right? Hell if you can get 25 mil, that's fair, ain't it?

As for a list of what would make me happy, I don't think that would be productive.  If you'd like, you're welcome to see what one liberal, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, proposed in 1944--his Second Bill of Rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights

Of course, any discussion of the Second Bill of Rights should include a discussion of how to pay for all of that.  And, as you know, I do favor progressive taxation, but I am not a tax expert (as many here seem to be), and I do not know what rates would be appropriate to cover what FDR proposed.  I merely know that our current tax structure is patently unfair.

As for your broken bone question, as gruesome as it may be, I am forced to consider that question on a regular basis, as are the insurance adjusters with whom I negotiate.  And if a given case is turned over to defense attorneys by the insurance campany, then they too must grapple with this question.  In both cases, we ask ourselves, "What is the jury likely to award?"  "Waht is this injury worth?"  In fact, there's an entire website devoted to this very question. They compare jury awards from around the country and try to come up with some reasonable estimates of what a given injury is worth.

I can tell you that you'd be sorely disappointed by the value of the injuries that they list.  No injury is worth one million dollars (much less twenty-five million).  You don't get that kind of money unless someone dies, and, even then, the deceased person has to be young and has to make a lot of money every year to be worth 25 million.   The big jury awards come not because of the injury (or the death) but because the tortfeasor (the defendant) does something that the jury thinks was unreasonably dangerous.  In John Edawards' most famous case, he sued a pool manufacturer for creating a drain that had killed several children.  He put up an expert that showed that the pool manufacturer knew about the problem, and that they could have fixed it by adding a 25 cent part.  The jury was furious that the company didn't make this change once the company learned about the previous children that had been drowned due to their design defect, and the jury punished the company for it--with a big punitive damages award.

No broken bone, though, is worth 25 million, and as much as I hate to engage in this kind of gruesome speculation, I have to do it in order to be able to zealously advocate for my clients.

-Laelth



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Offline Laelth

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #395 on: July 07, 2010, 09:45:20 AM »
It's the glass half empty glass half full analogy, progressives see the glass as half empty and conservatives see the glass as half full.

Laelth, I've considered myself a Republican since birth and I'm going to give you a little background on my life just to prove the stereotype wrong about Republicans.

I'm white, I'm from a black neighborhood in Brooklyn, I grew up poor, I went to private school and only went there because my father worked 2 jobs and my mother worked 3 jobs to pay for it, I went to college and knew my parents couldn't afford it, I didn't apply for scholarships or loans, I just worked 2 jobs and went to school, and when my Dad got sick we got even poorer. When he was unable to work anymore my Parents didn't apply for welfare or food stamps, we got by on my Mothers and my little salaries, we bought chicken legs, store brand cereal, pasta and sauce to last the month, we struggled but we always had hope that things would get better and they would get better because of us, not because of what the Government could give us. My Parents never owned a home, but I do, and by extension my Mother in a way because we moved her and my Aunt with us a couple of years ago, we moved them in with us because of the high cost of living around here, I could've easily pawned my Mother and my Aunt off on the system by getting her into senior housing or even a nursing home, but I couldn't nor would I do it. I'm not looking for accolades, but I'm the face in many instances of a Tea Party protester, people at the DU would never cite someone like me in their rants because it doesn't fit their preconceived notion.

I'm going to give you a few comparisons of the lives of people I know versus my husband and I.

How do we live? kind of frugally, yes I splurge on little things once in a while but I don't put myself into debt with material things. For the longest time it seemed we were the only ones who didn't have a big screen TV, a relative decided to upgrade and gave us her 52 inch TV, we would never of bought that ourselves because we didn't want the debt. I have 4 computers in my house, 1 of them is my Aunts and hers is about 3 years old, but our computers? 2 are over 8 years old and 1 we got from my Mother in Law for free and that's about 3 years old. I'd love to go out and splurge on a new 1 but I really don't need it. All of our cars are paid off and they range in age from 9 years old to 17 years old, sure I'd love a new 1 but I really don't need it. My priorities are my mortgage and health insurance.

Now let me compare that to 2 other people I know.

I have a relative, lives in a 10 room house, built in pool, 99 inch TV, newer computers up the wazoo, a couple of nice SUV's, we got into a conversation a few years ago and I asked her what health insurance she had, she said we don't have health insurance, the kids are covered under the state plan, I was floored, I asked how she was able to do that and she said everything they own is in another relatives name, and since they make money under the table? they're basically scamming the system, and she said all her friends do it, friends who have tons of nice material things.

Another story is a friend of my inlaws, this couple owned their own business, drove around in a brand new truck, went to gamble for the weekend once a month, then he needs bypass surgery, this was a few years ago, and I asked my FIL what insurance he had because I know the medical bills could be high, my FIL said they don't have insurance and the guy said "what are they going to do deny me treatment"?

My inlaws worked damn hard for everything they have, they had their own business and worked 12 hours days everyday, very rarely got a vacation, and when it came time to retire it hit them in the wallet, they paid for supplemental insurance but had only minimal prescription coverage so they paid out of pocket, and yeah they were bitter because they worked hard all their life and never asked the Government for a dime, yet here they were retired and still paying up the wazoo for people who got a pass their whole life.

Progressives talk the talk when it comes to the rich, of course they do because it's an easy out, they can continue to live in their naive lalaland and pretend the poor are these little victims their whole lives yet they refuse to see how an awful lot of "poor" are just scamming the system. I'll take a rich person who contributes upwards of 60% of their income in taxes over a scammer anyday of the week. When people need a job they don't look to the poor person to provide it, they look to the rich and middle class to do it.

So when you see posts on Tea Party protesters at the DU or any other progressive site, those people behind those signs are me, not the imagined racist the left likes to tout. And if someone ever says that people at the Tea Party look poor and instead of being divided they should be united with the progressive poor, keep this in mind, those people at Tea Parties just want to be left alone by the Government, they're tired of being robbed by the Government to take care of the Democratic base that for 5 generations have used poverty as an excuse for not succeeding. Take it from the white girl from Crown Heights, people themselves are responsible for how they lead their lives when they become an adult.

It's clear that you're a decent and ethical person.  And I have no love for people who are ripping the system off.  I do think it's tragic, however, that you and your parents refused to accept government benefits to which you were evidently entitled.  It's sad that you've been made to feel ashamed for even considering taking those benefits.  In my opinion, you should take them if you're entiled to them, just as the people you mentioned should not take them if they're not entitled to them.

And I understand the anger and frustration of those who feel they're getting ripped off.  I am especially angry about your friend with the big house who's ripping us off, but you must see that this example proves my point, in a way.  The rich rip us off a lot more than the poor do.  Id' rather tackle that problem first--as opposed to enacting draconian measures that will have the greatest impact on the poor who legally deserve assistance.

And I will repeat that no rich person believes in personal responsibility.  That's why they buy medical malpractice insurance, or home insurance, or any other instrument that assures collective responsibility.  They're the first people to ask for a government bailout when their complex financial instruments go down the tube.  They don't believe in personal responsibility.  Why should you?

-Laelth
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Offline Laelth

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #396 on: July 07, 2010, 09:46:34 AM »
Trust me Bally, that will fall on deaf ears. You didn't specify whether those scamming the system were Dems or Reps. I would take a guess, but I'm pretty sure I know the answer.

Sigh.  I am not here to support the Democratic Party, and you can't understand what I have to say at all if you believe that.

-Laelth
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Offline Laelth

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #397 on: July 07, 2010, 09:51:19 AM »
In other words you are involved in suits against OBGYNs.
Along with that you are selective about medical testimony dependent on whether a doctor says yay or nay based on their potential personal gain rather then a professional opinion.

If a doc in an insurance group says no,disregard them but if one that may benefit from a kickback says go ahead it is green light forward.

I've never had a case against an OB-GYN.  I do not undersatnd what you're talking about here.

But, yes, in most cases I have one doctor who says "injury" and the other doctor (the insurance company's doctor) says either "no injury" or "injury not caused by defendant."  That's as good as it ever gets from the Plaintiff's perspective, and I proceed with cases like that.  When the doctor my client chooses, however, says "no injury," I drop that case.  Plaintiff can't win if her own doctor says there's no injury.

-Laelth
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #398 on: July 07, 2010, 10:07:22 AM »
I am not a tax expert (as many here seem to be), and I do not know what rates would be appropriate to cover what FDR proposed.  I merely know that our current tax structure is patently unfair.

That's pretty obvious.  Either you're willfully ignorant, or just in denial.  Which is it?

Oh, and what would YOU conisder "fair"?  Break it down by income and percentage which YOU think should go towards taxes.
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.”  -Henry Ford

Offline Thor

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #399 on: July 07, 2010, 10:17:04 AM »
"Fair" to me would be a 10% income tax, across the board, no deductions, no nothing.
"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."- IBID

I AM your General Ne'er Do Well, Troublemaker & All Around Meanie!!

"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated."-Thomas Jefferson