Author Topic: The liberal vultures are circling.  (Read 53849 times)

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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #350 on: July 06, 2010, 08:06:31 PM »
Oh yeah, Carter shows his moral/ethical sense every time he talks about Cuba, Venezuela and Israel! That and havin' Micheal Moore sit next to him at the convention, that really showed it! GOOD GRIEF!
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #351 on: July 06, 2010, 08:11:35 PM »
That may very well be true.  And I don't recall blaming anyone other than the people who misled me--those who told me one thing and did something else entirely.

-Laelth



I'm reeeeeeeeeeeeeeal curious, just what is it that would make you happy? How 'bout a list?

ETA:

Somethin' else I'm curious about, just how much do you and your peers think, say a broken bone, oughta be worth? As much as you can get right? Hell if you can get 25 mil, that's fair, ain't it?
« Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 08:15:22 PM by AllosaursRus »
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Offline Ballygrl

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #352 on: July 06, 2010, 08:13:37 PM »
Whereas, I can say that many people at the DUmp are miserable, because they themselves say so. Not to mention the survey which Ballygrl posted in a previous post in which more people on the left self-identified as being more unhappy, and people on the right in the survey self-identified as being happy.

It's the glass half empty glass half full analogy, progressives see the glass as half empty and conservatives see the glass as half full.

Laelth, I've considered myself a Republican since birth and I'm going to give you a little background on my life just to prove the stereotype wrong about Republicans.

I'm white, I'm from a black neighborhood in Brooklyn, I grew up poor, I went to private school and only went there because my father worked 2 jobs and my mother worked 3 jobs to pay for it, I went to college and knew my parents couldn't afford it, I didn't apply for scholarships or loans, I just worked 2 jobs and went to school, and when my Dad got sick we got even poorer. When he was unable to work anymore my Parents didn't apply for welfare or food stamps, we got by on my Mothers and my little salaries, we bought chicken legs, store brand cereal, pasta and sauce to last the month, we struggled but we always had hope that things would get better and they would get better because of us, not because of what the Government could give us. My Parents never owned a home, but I do, and by extension my Mother in a way because we moved her and my Aunt with us a couple of years ago, we moved them in with us because of the high cost of living around here, I could've easily pawned my Mother and my Aunt off on the system by getting her into senior housing or even a nursing home, but I couldn't nor would I do it. I'm not looking for accolades, but I'm the face in many instances of a Tea Party protester, people at the DU would never cite someone like me in their rants because it doesn't fit their preconceived notion.

I'm going to give you a few comparisons of the lives of people I know versus my husband and I.

How do we live? kind of frugally, yes I splurge on little things once in a while but I don't put myself into debt with material things. For the longest time it seemed we were the only ones who didn't have a big screen TV, a relative decided to upgrade and gave us her 52 inch TV, we would never of bought that ourselves because we didn't want the debt. I have 4 computers in my house, 1 of them is my Aunts and hers is about 3 years old, but our computers? 2 are over 8 years old and 1 we got from my Mother in Law for free and that's about 3 years old. I'd love to go out and splurge on a new 1 but I really don't need it. All of our cars are paid off and they range in age from 9 years old to 17 years old, sure I'd love a new 1 but I really don't need it. My priorities are my mortgage and health insurance.

Now let me compare that to 2 other people I know.

I have a relative, lives in a 10 room house, built in pool, 99 inch TV, newer computers up the wazoo, a couple of nice SUV's, we got into a conversation a few years ago and I asked her what health insurance she had, she said we don't have health insurance, the kids are covered under the state plan, I was floored, I asked how she was able to do that and she said everything they own is in another relatives name, and since they make money under the table? they're basically scamming the system, and she said all her friends do it, friends who have tons of nice material things.

Another story is a friend of my inlaws, this couple owned their own business, drove around in a brand new truck, went to gamble for the weekend once a month, then he needs bypass surgery, this was a few years ago, and I asked my FIL what insurance he had because I know the medical bills could be high, my FIL said they don't have insurance and the guy said "what are they going to do deny me treatment"?

My inlaws worked damn hard for everything they have, they had their own business and worked 12 hours days everyday, very rarely got a vacation, and when it came time to retire it hit them in the wallet, they paid for supplemental insurance but had only minimal prescription coverage so they paid out of pocket, and yeah they were bitter because they worked hard all their life and never asked the Government for a dime, yet here they were retired and still paying up the wazoo for people who got a pass their whole life.

Progressives talk the talk when it comes to the rich, of course they do because it's an easy out, they can continue to live in their naive lalaland and pretend the poor are these little victims their whole lives yet they refuse to see how an awful lot of "poor" are just scamming the system. I'll take a rich person who contributes upwards of 60% of their income in taxes over a scammer anyday of the week. When people need a job they don't look to the poor person to provide it, they look to the rich and middle class to do it.

So when you see posts on Tea Party protesters at the DU or any other progressive site, those people behind those signs are me, not the imagined racist the left likes to tout. And if someone ever says that people at the Tea Party look poor and instead of being divided they should be united with the progressive poor, keep this in mind, those people at Tea Parties just want to be left alone by the Government, they're tired of being robbed by the Government to take care of the Democratic base that for 5 generations have used poverty as an excuse for not succeeding. Take it from the white girl from Crown Heights, people themselves are responsible for how they lead their lives when they become an adult.
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #353 on: July 06, 2010, 08:21:52 PM »
Trust me Bally, that will fall on deaf ears. You didn't specify whether those scamming the system were Dems or Reps. I would take a guess, but I'm pretty sure I know the answer.
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Offline Duchess

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #354 on: July 06, 2010, 08:22:31 PM »
Oh yeah, Carter shows his moral/ethical sense every time he talks about Cuba, Venezuela and Israel! That and havin' Micheal Moore sit next to him at the convention, that really showed it! GOOD GRIEF!

His behavior towards Israel was my first thought when I read that.

Offline Ballygrl

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #355 on: July 06, 2010, 08:25:36 PM »
Trust me Bally, that will fall on deaf ears. You didn't specify whether those scamming the system were Dems or Reps. I would take a guess, but I'm pretty sure I know the answer.

Democrats! although the relative is leaning Republican the past couple of years, and it might be because they got a legitimate taxes coming out of the check job.
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"The nation that couldn’t be conquered by foreign enemies has been conquered by its elected officials" odawg Free Republic in reference to the GOP Elites who are no difference than the Democrats

Offline Laelth

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #356 on: July 06, 2010, 08:29:16 PM »
Nor do I but was just pointing out that there are organizations that exist to perpetuate criminality and that was what was being asserted.

Fair enough.  If you're right about that, then I did misunderstand that post.

-Laelth
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Offline Carl

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #357 on: July 06, 2010, 08:32:21 PM »
I am not sure how to answer this one.  The insurance company, of course, often insists that my client submit herself to the examination of their doctor (whose job it is to say that there's nothing wrong with my client or that whatever is wrong wasn't caused by the insured person, the defendant).  But if a client ever comes to me after seeing a non-insurance-company doctor where that doctor says my client is not injured, I would drop the case.  No injury = no tort.  And if my Client's own doctor says there's no injury, my chances of winning are virtually nil.  I can't afford to waste my time with a case like that.

I hope that answers your question.

-Laelth

In other words you are involved in suits against OBGYNs.
Along with that you are selective about medical testimony dependent on whether a doctor says yay or nay based on their potential personal gain rather then a professional opinion.

If a doc in an insurance group says no,disregard them but if one that may benefit from a kickback says go ahead it is green light forward.

Offline Laelth

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #358 on: July 06, 2010, 08:34:42 PM »
Well, your president propped up a racist minister with thousands of dollars of thithes for more than 2 decades and one of his first acts as POTUS was to have a default judgment against racists won by the DOJ to be thrown away.

The former was brought to light well before the election and the latter was easily prognosticated. To this day blacks are marginalized by the dems who insist on calling conservatives racists and demeaning blacks such as Dr Rice, Justice Thomas and Judge Rogers-Brown. If liberals admitted for half a minute that conservative policies were color blind and prone to generate wealth they would lose that racist 96% bloc they count on.

Liberals NEED racism.

You mean our President?  Perhaps he did do that.  I don't really know, and it matters little to me.  I don't know if you've noticed, but I'm not exactly defending the President here.

Is it true that the Democratic Party needs black votes?  Absolutely.  I don't know if you've noticed this, either, but I am not defending the Democratic Party here.

So, I'm not sure what you're driving at.  It appears that you want me to call you a racist so that you can safely dismiss everything I have to say.  Too bad.  I didn't call anyone here a racist.  But I did say that race is a wedge issue used by the rich and the powerful to convince a large segment of the population to vote against their best interests.  That particular game has a long and rich history, and it works very well.  All I said is that it's tragic that people still fall for it.

-Laelth
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Offline Laelth

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #359 on: July 06, 2010, 08:38:53 PM »
Conservatives believe in equality of opportunity

That may be what they say, but it's not what their policies indicate they believe.

Quote from: Doc
Liberals believe in the equality of outcomes.

Perhaps.  I have never though of liberalsim in this way, but you're absolutely right to say that conservatives seem not to care about equal outcomes.  Any policy seems to be OK with a conservative so long as it makes them richer, and to heck with everyone else.  That I'll give you.

-Laelth
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Offline Doc

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #360 on: July 06, 2010, 08:42:27 PM »
 But I did say that race is a wedge issue used by the rich and the powerful to convince a large segment of the population to vote against their best interests.  That particular game has a long and rich history, and it works very well.  All I said is that it's tragic that people still fall for it.

-Laelth

Precisely what "best interest" are we being provoked by racism to vote against?  Be specific and detailed please......

Second question:  Who exactly is the arbiter of what is in "our best interest"?

doc

Offline Mike220

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #361 on: July 06, 2010, 08:44:16 PM »
Precisely what "best interest" are we being provoked by racism to vote against?  Be specific and detailed please......

Second question:  Who exactly is the arbiter of what is in "our best interest"?

doc

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Offline Duchess

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #362 on: July 06, 2010, 08:46:15 PM »
That may be what they say, but it's not what their policies indicate they believe.

Perhaps.  I have never though of liberalsim in this way, but you're absolutely right to say that conservatives seem not to care about equal outcomes.  Any policy seems to be OK with a conservative so long as it makes them richer, and to heck with everyone else.  That I'll give you.

-Laelth

Which one is it--either we're a lot of greedy pigs or we vote against our own best interests. Or can "liberal logic" manage to make it be both?

And equal outcomes? Do you think about what you're saying? Why bother to be Michelangelo when the rewards will be just as great if you finger paint rainbows (see the NEA).  The only equality of outcome there can ever be is that of the lowest common  denominator because you just can't make people more intrinsically intelligent or gifted than they are, but you can certainly suppress people's gifts. The Soviet people had a saying for it--"the nail that sticks up gets hammered". Mediocrity rules in equality of outcome.

Offline Doc

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #363 on: July 06, 2010, 08:48:14 PM »
That may be what they say, but it's not what their policies indicate they believe.

Perhaps.  I have never though of liberalsim in this way, but you're absolutely right to say that conservatives seem not to care about equal outcomes.  Any policy seems to be OK with a conservative so long as it makes them richer, and to heck with everyone else.  That I'll give you.

-Laelth

Again, methinks you are confusing "Republicans" and "Conservatives".......they are two different things.

We  conservatives tend to vote for Republicans, but with the full recognition that not all "Republicans" are conservative......

As I mentioned upthread, that distinction is important here, and some of your generalizations are misunderstood because you don't seem to grasp the difference.

doc

Offline Ballygrl

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #364 on: July 06, 2010, 08:49:33 PM »
I need to ask a question because this "race" issue is bothering me.

What has the Democratic Party, after all these decades of promises to the black community, what have they done for them? does anyone honestly think the consequences we see all these decades later wasn't purposely done by LBJ and Democrats to make the black community somehow indebted to them? I can even ask that question about Obama, what did Obama ever do to improve the lives of his constituents? as we know the slumlord problem never went away when Obama was representing them, and crime sure as heck didn't decrease. Aside from rhetoric what has Obama and the Democrats done to improve their lives?
« Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 08:53:16 PM by Ballygrl »
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"The nation that couldn’t be conquered by foreign enemies has been conquered by its elected officials" odawg Free Republic in reference to the GOP Elites who are no difference than the Democrats

Offline Laelth

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #365 on: July 06, 2010, 08:49:44 PM »

Just a focus for a moment on this part of your quote...

Why do you think that happens?

I am not sure why.  I just know that it does.  I don't know if you've studied Shay's Rebellion, the event that caused the founders to get together to create the Constitution, but it porvides a good example of how the wealthy are inclined to use the power of government to enrich themselves if they're not kept in check.  When Jefferson said that an occasional revolution would be a good thing, he was referring specifically to Shay's Rebellion.  Jefferson insisted on our Second Amendment because he knew that the rich would take away every dime and every inch of land that the people had if they were not perpetually afraid that the people would revolt.

In Federalist 10, Madison makes it clear that the new government was designed to prevent "faction," and by that he meant another Shay's Rebellion--an uprising of the people against the wealthy.  Federalist 57 responds to the anti-federalist's fears that the new Constitution would institute an oligarchy (which, it appears, is exactly what happened).  These were very real concerns for the founders.

http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa10.htm
http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa57.htm

-Laelth
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Offline Laelth

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #366 on: July 06, 2010, 08:54:18 PM »
Of course wealth doesn't flow strictly upward. Wealthy people spread their wealth through purchases; they don't sit on giant piles of money no matter what the cartoons tell our resident buffoon.

Of course they don't sit on it.  They buy government debt and they gamble it on the stock market.  The companies they buy shares of then have more money to build new factories or service-call centers in India.  Then, when the market collapses, they cry to us and demand a bail-out.

If that money they gambled actually produced American jobs, I wouldn't mind it so much, but it doesn't seem to have that effect anymore.

-Laelth
We are all in this boat together.

Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #367 on: July 06, 2010, 08:57:33 PM »
Again, methinks you are confusing "Republicans" and "Conservatives".......they are two different things.

We  conservatives tend to vote for Republicans, but with the full recognition that not all "Republicans" are conservative......

As I mentioned upthread, that distinction is important here, and some of your generalizations are misunderstood because you don't seem to grasp the difference.

doc

Mt sentiments EXACTLY!!!!!!!1

Look who is accusing us of lumpin' political ideals together!
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Offline Ballygrl

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #368 on: July 06, 2010, 08:58:03 PM »
Oh another question, any complaints about George Soros? how much did he remove from the market before it crashed? For some reason when the left complains about the wealthy George Soros is never mentioned, such an evil little man who uses his money for such personal and egotistical gain.
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"The nation that couldn’t be conquered by foreign enemies has been conquered by its elected officials" odawg Free Republic in reference to the GOP Elites who are no difference than the Democrats

Offline Laelth

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #369 on: July 06, 2010, 08:58:21 PM »
It's hypocritical because you presented yourself here as a reasonable person wanting rational debate, or give-and-take, when the generalisation you made at the DUmp is anything but rational. You have no grounds for saying that any of the people in those photographs are racists or miserable, but that's the reflexive accusation people on the right get from the DUmp monkeys. How can you possibly assume that even one of those people is racist or has had a miserable life due to their supposed "loss" of feelings of superiority? You can't assume either of those things from those photographs. Whereas, I can say that many people at the DUmp are miserable, because they themselves say so. Not to mention the survey which Ballygrl posted in a previous post in which more people on the left self-identified as being more unhappy, and people on the right in the survey self-identified as being happy.

I admitted that my characterization of those people as "miserable" and as people who wanted to feel superior to blacks was broad-brush and over-generalized.  I even apologized for that.

However, I continue to note that I may be poor company to you all given that everyone here is perfect and that noone here would ever make any broad-brush, over-generalized comments about anyone.

-Laelth
We are all in this boat together.

Offline Doc

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #370 on: July 06, 2010, 09:02:49 PM »
Of course they don't sit on it.  They buy government debt and they gamble it on the stock market.  The companies they buy shares of then have more money to build new factories or service-call centers in India.  Then, when the market collapses, they cry to us and demand a bail-out.

If that money they gambled actually produced American jobs, I wouldn't mind it so much, but it doesn't seem to have that effect anymore.

-Laelth

A gross generalization, and downright wrong......80% of the jobs in the US (and the wealth) are created by small business (defined as less than 200 employees), not robber barons as you seem wont to portray.  The vast majority of those small business owners are middle class citizens just like you......at least they are until liberals tax them into bankroptcy.......

Please research your subject matter before you post......and not at "Common dreams".....

doc
« Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 09:06:41 PM by Doc »

Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #371 on: July 06, 2010, 09:05:57 PM »
Of course they don't sit on it.  They buy government debt and they gamble it on the stock market.  The companies they buy shares of then have more money to build new factories or service-call centers in India.  Then, when the market collapses, they cry to us and demand a bail-out.

If that money they gambled actually produced American jobs, I wouldn't mind it so much, but it doesn't seem to have that effect anymore.

-Laelth

Does this mean China, the largest holder of our debt, is also in the stock market? If so, we are in more trouble than your buddies will ever be able to dig us out of!

If I were you, I'd start voting for conservatives, be they Reps or Dems, makes no diff! Conservative principals are the only thing to bring us back from the abyss. More spending, as you and your constituents are advising, will do nothing more than make it worse! How's that stimulus workin' there Einstein? Change it Back!!!

BTW, I know of several Banks that tried to tell Bummer NO! We don't need your money! Why do ya 'spose he made them take it anyway? Oh I know, cause he's not a liberal/socialsist!

Dream on!
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Offline Laelth

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #372 on: July 06, 2010, 09:08:13 PM »
Doc:

Lilith:

This, is an insult????????

I'm confused? We pretty much gave you a buy on your "racist' bullshit, and you think this, is an insult? No wonder yer a frikkin' lawyer. Victim-hood anyone? How many times you use that kinda crap in your arguments in court?

After reading all of your "arguments", I'm beginning to understand why I have such a disdain for lawyers. Now, that's a helluva lot closer to an insult than what you posted! Yet it is aimed at a profession, not you personally. I'm kinda gettin' where lawyers find their mentality. Everyone's a victim so we can find a reason to sue the pants of somebody!

Come on, man.  Seriously.  "Waaaaahhhh!  He called me a racist!  Waaaaahhhh."

Now that's plaing the victim.

-Laelth
We are all in this boat together.

Offline Duchess

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #373 on: July 06, 2010, 09:14:09 PM »
I admitted that my characterization of those people as "miserable" and as people who wanted to feel superior to blacks was broad-brush and over-generalized.  I even apologized for that.

However, I continue to note that I may be poor company to you all given that everyone here is perfect and that noone here would ever make any broad-brush, over-generalized comments about anyone.

-Laelth

Who said anything about anyone needing to be perfect? You can throw out "crazy right wing" all day long and I won't even notice it. Accusing people of being racist is incendiary in this day and age and you know it, and the left does it at the drop of a hat to people on the right with no basis whatsoever. It's the equivalent of saying "Have you stopped beating your wife?"--it's an unanswerable accusation.

You asked me why I thought it was hypocritical, and I told you. If you didn't want an answer, don't ask the question. You apologised, fine. Now back to our regularly-scheduled flinging of "leftist fascists" and "right-wing Nazis".

Offline Doc

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Re: The liberal vultures are circling.
« Reply #374 on: July 06, 2010, 09:16:07 PM »
Come on, man. Seriously.  "Waaaaahhhh!  He called me a racist!  Waaaaahhhh."

Now that's plaing the victim.

-Laelth

He was referring to your response to ME.......and I have never mentioned racism........if you are going to play here, you have to keep the players straight......or review the thread.

doc

On edit:  I realize that you are one person, with half a dozen members hurling questions at you, and having been in that position, I can empathize........that said, you will NEVER hear me play the "victim card".......not in my nature.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 09:24:06 PM by Doc »