Conservative's stance on gays

[fourseasons]

Hi. I'm a 17 year old gay male who has some questions regarding conservatives stance on gays.  I was born the way I am and have always been this way.  People who think it is a "choice" or a "lifestyle" are wrong I would never choose to be ridiculed by my peers and lose family connections. The way I see it is that homosexual people should be allowed to have the same rights that heterosexual people have, they shouldn't be given different standards because of who they are. I live in a small town where being gay is not generally accepted especially in high school. I have other friends who have been physically and verbally harassed because of their sexual orientation in front of teachers who do nothing to stop it.  What I don't understand is why many conservatives are againest the idea's of nondiscrimination and equal rights for everybody.

I will respect everybody's opinion just please no insults.

[NHSparky]

How about this one...when your sexuality is the only thing that defines you, your life is pretty ****ing shallow. 

Conservatives will TOLERATE gay people.  We'll never CONDONE the lifestyle.  Please try and learn the difference.  And as far as "gay marriage" goes, please tell me what church has lasted for long when it allows gays to marry.  Civil unions, or domestic partnerships?  Hey, whatever you do in your bedroom is your deal, but don't think for one second that you can cry "civil rights!" and all of a sudden we'll give a shit.  Marriage was a RELIGIOUS institution long before it was a legal one, and to shove that down our throats is an affront to our belief in God, Allah, Buddah, Jehovah, what-have-you.

Anything else?

[DixieBelle]

What do you consider rights? Or are you speaking in broader terms and mean "acceptance"? We all have civil rights and basic human rights regardless of sexual orientation.

[NHSparky]

What do you consider rights? Or are you speaking in broader terms and mean "acceptance"? We all have civil rights and basic human rights regardless of sexual orientation.

Amen.  Do not confuse "equal rights" with "special rights".  IMHO, the LGBT movement isn't about equal rights, and hasn't been for quite some time.

[Carl]

What you do in your bedroom is not a concern of mine so long as it is with a consenting adult even though I consider it disgusting and abhorrent.
When one demands special consideration because of their abnormal,and yes it is, sexual preference then I say no.

[The Village Idiot]

Hi. I'm a 17 year old gay male who has some questions regarding conservatives stance on gays.  

Wow. My condolences. Also its pretty sad that your public school has completely failed you and left you completely ignorant of other peoples viewpoints.


I was born the way I am and have always been this way.  

You were born having sex with other males? Sad. Must have freaked the doctors out.

People who think it is a "choice" or a "lifestyle" are wrong I would never choose to be ridiculed by my peers and lose family connections.

You choose who to have sex with, unless you are raped and most don't count that as sex.

The way I see it is that homosexual people should be allowed to have the same rights that heterosexual people have,

They do have the same rights.

they shouldn't be given different standards because of who they are.

Anyone got that zombietimes link handy?

 I live in a small town where being gay is not generally accepted especially in high school.

No sex should be acceptable in school, that is not what you go to school for.

I have other friends who have been physically and verbally harassed because of their sexual orientation in front of teachers who do nothing to stop it.

Boohoo. I was bullied for being fat. Boo hoo.

 What I don't understand is why many conservatives are against the idea's of nondiscrimination and equal rights for everybody.

We are FOR equal rights for everyone. You are talking about liberals it sounds like.

I will respect everybody's opinion just please no insults.

I'll pray for you.

[The Village Idiot]

Hit N Run Poster?

Or will he check in tomorrow?

[NHSparky]

Hit N Run Poster?

Or will he check in tomorrow?

My guess is on option 1.

[The Village Idiot]

That is disappointing, could have been interesting.

[fourseasons]

ok when I say "equal rights" i mean the same rights that people take for granted and would protest if they were taken away such as Job Security, Hospital Visitation, being in the military and dare I say... Marriage... it is not special consideration

I agree that acting upon urges is a choice, but being lesbian gay bi or transgendered is not a choice there's more to being gay then having sex.  people who are gay fall in love in just the same way that people that are straight. You do not choose who you fall in love with.

I always thought that freedom of religion also meant the freedom from religion. there's a separation between church and state. also sects of Buddhism in the united states that celebrate gay marriage aren't you denying them their religious freedom by denying them marriage?

[IassaFTots]

That is disappointing, could have been interesting.

I dunno.  If he is actually a real 17 y/o homosexual, I sincerely doubt he would stay for tea and crumpets after the responses.  Jes sayin.

Oh well.....after having read the last post, I guess I was mistaken.  It happens. 

[The Village Idiot]

1. Business should have the right to hire and fire as they see fit. If they believe a person detracts from their business for any reason they should be able to let them go.

2. Hospitals should have the right to decide if its in their interest to restrict visitations, such as in the ICU because it affects other patients. In most cases though I see very few places that doesn't let people visit their friends. I have visited people in the hospital with no problem, I guess if you waltz in and announce your sexuality you should expect a problem.

3. Being in the military is not a right. The military exists for a specific reason, to kick butt, and they have every right to NOT take people for any reason that might detract from that mission. Then again, if your not going around announcing your sexual preference, you know like MOST people don't, people won't know or care.

4. Marriage? You have every right to get married to a girl. That is what marriage is. WHAT you are apparently trying to say is that you want SOCIETY to PRETEND that two men, two women, or 3 women, 1 man and a dog can be "married". How cute. What you are really asking for is acceptabce and that is not going to happen. I do not have a "right" to be accepted and neither do you. It is not something you can demand.

If your talking about the "benefits" of marriage, there shouldn't be any. (except monogamy and being able to be with a trusted spouse to make babies with)

Then again you and your "partner" can be as married as you want in your own home and your own life. The problem comes from demanding others accept you as the same as them when its clearly not.

[Lord Undies]

We all have our crosses to bear.  Homosexuals are not special or unique in any way.  They have the same rights as everyone else.  THE EXACT SAME RIGHTS.  

I have homosexual relatives (cousins - one male, 52 - one female, 70) who have lived quiet and dignified lives, and they are very successful in business.  They lead their lives in the confines of who they are, just like the rest of us.  They are not special.  They are just folks who are homosexual and do not care to have sex with the opposite sex.  That makes them "not normal".  They know this.  They work around it.  They don't expect the world to change for them.

Do you get where I'm going?  Just shut the f*ck up and be who you are.  It's your cross to bear.  Deal with it.  Don't expect the world to conform to you.  You are NOT SPECIAL IN ANY WAY nor do you deserve any special consideration.    

[Thor]

I always thought that freedom of religion also meant the freedom from religion. there's a separation between church and state. also sects of Buddhism in the united states that celebrate gay marriage aren't you denying them their religious freedom by denying them marriage?

The first amendment expressly states "The amendment prohibits the making of any law "respecting an establishment of religion", impeding the free exercise of religion". What this means is more than a "wall of separation between the church and the state", as Jefferson wrote about to some Baptist Church in Va. Do you have ANY concept of the "free exercise thereof"?? Young misguided lad, you really need to study the TRUE history, NOT what you my have learned in public school. The crux of the religion clause in the first amendment was to keep the government out of the churches, attempting to avoid what England had at the time. It NEVER once suggested that people be NOT be exposed to Judeo-Christian values. Our laws are explicitly based on those values.

[The Village Idiot]

fourseasons has been mis-educated. He should sue the school for making him dumber than when he started.

[littlelamb]

I feel sorry for him but he seems to be like the rest of his generation and wants everything given to them and I hope he comes back

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

ok when I say "equal rights" i mean the same rights that people take for granted and would protest if they were taken away such as Job Security, Hospital Visitation, being in the military and dare I say... Marriage... it is not special consideration

Every society has standards of sexual conduct. Stop acting like your situation is unique and that you are somehow he only one with expectations being put upon them.

An employer might fire an employee if they found out they were having an affair with a married person. A hospital may refuse the that person visitation if their lover takes sick. The state may even level legal penalties against the married lover. The military can even imprison members who engage in adultery.

IOW: there are standards and those standards do not disappear just because 2 people imagine themselves as having an emotional/sexual attraction.

You do have all the rights of a US citizen. You have the rights to free speech, peaceable assembly, petition for the redress of grievances, to vote when of age of majority, etc etc etc

No one here would move to deny you those rights and they and most would/do fight to defend them.

And while you're sitting there enumerating the rights you want to provide yourself how about asking whether or not the people you're lecturing by acting as a ventriloquist dummie have the right to decide the shape and color of the society they live in. If they have the same political rights as you do to free speech, campaigning, etc then they have a right to vote for candidates that enact laws that regulate when people are old enough to marry, when will the state recognize a marriage and all the enforcements that entails, etc.

If your political agenda cannot secure the consent of the governed then it seeks to rule by dictate.

I agree that acting upon urges is a choice, but being lesbian gay bi or transgendered is not a choice there's more to being gay then having sex.  people who are gay fall in love in just the same way that people that are straight. You do not choose who you fall in love with.

Love is an act of will, so either you're lying about being in love or you're lying about being gay.

BTW - the bullshit self pity party your masters have fed you denies the fact that countless societies have acculturated homosexuality.

I always thought that freedom of religion also meant the freedom from religion. there's a separation between church and state. also sects of Buddhism in the united states that celebrate gay marriage aren't you denying them their religious freedom by denying them marriage?

That's what you get for thinking.

Stop listening to the people who want you weak and dependent upon them, stand-up and being a goddam man already. Those idiot liberals masters of yours want you looking to them and them only for your rights and happiness. No one here needs anything from anyone to be happy and productive they do it themselves first and expect not to be ****ed with for it. If you're waiting for gay marriage and a repeal of DADT then--well--you're an idiot and you deserve to go to your grave 70 years from now as a frustrated idiot.

[fourseasons]

1. Business should have the right to hire and fire as they see fit. If they believe a person detracts from their business for any reason they should be able to let them go.

2. Hospitals should have the right to decide if its in their interest to restrict visitations, such as in the ICU because it affects other patients. In most cases though I see very few places that doesn't let people visit their friends. I have visited people in the hospital with no problem, I guess if you waltz in and announce your sexuality you should expect a problem.

3. Being in the military is not a right. The military exists for a specific reason, to kick butt, and they have every right to NOT take people for any reason that might detract from that mission. Then again, if your not going around announcing your sexual preference, you know like MOST people don't, people won't know or care.

4. Marriage? You have every right to get married to a girl. That is what marriage is. WHAT you are apparently trying to say is that you want SOCIETY to PRETEND that two men, two women, or 3 women, 1 man and a dog can be "married". How cute. What you are really asking for is acceptabce and that is not going to happen. I do not have a "right" to be accepted and neither do you. It is not something you can demand.

If your talking about the "benefits" of marriage, there shouldn't be any. (except monogamy and being able to be with a trusted spouse to make babies with)

Then again you and your "partner" can be as married as you want in your own home and your own life. The problem comes from demanding others accept you as the same as them when its clearly not.

1.Businesses have the right to hire and fire based on qualifications and job performance.  A business should not be able to fire someone solely based on race, gender, religion or sexual orientation.  Unless being homosexual detracts from your job performance in some way then a business should not be allowed to discriminate.

2. The patient should be allowed to choose who they are allowed to see not the hospital.  all i'm saying is that gays should be allowed to see their partners when in hospitals in all the same cases that straights are allowed to see their partners.  I realized today that Obama has recently ordered that all hospitals that recieve medicare to allow the patients to choose who is allowed to see them.

3. I was unaware that being gay meant you could no longer fight.  the real problem is homophobia in the military.

4. Ok first off I am not supporting polygamy or zoofilia what I am is supporting is giving same-sex relationships that same benefits that married couples have.  You said that there should not be any benefits that come with marriage. what about government benefits like receiving social security, medicare and disability benefits for spouses or obtaining insurance benefits through a spouses employer.  same-sex relationships should be given the option to have these benefits as well since love is love.

We all have our crosses to bear.  Homosexuals are not special or unique in any way.  They have the same rights as everyone else.  THE EXACT SAME RIGHTS. 

I have homosexual relatives (cousins - one male, 52 - one female, 70) who have lived quiet and dignified lives, and they are very successful in business.  They lead their lives in the confines of who they are, just like the rest of us.  They are not special.  They are just folks who are homosexual and do not care to have sex with the opposite sex.  That makes them "not normal".  They know this.  They work around it.  They don't expect the world to change for them.

Do you get where I'm going?  Just shut the f*ck up and be who you are.  It's your cross to bear.  Deal with it.  Don't expect the world to conform to you.  You are NOT SPECIAL IN ANY WAY nor do you deserve any special consideration.   

First off congratulations to your relatives to live their lives that way it would be very hard. I refuse to live a lie about who I am I will not stay in the closet with millions of other Americans.  For there to be change someone has to stand up to what society says is "normal" otherwise we would have no reform in any area of government.



Im not listening to any "liberal master" I live in conservative town raised by conservative christian parents.  Im saying this because I feel it is right not because im being pressured by a "liberal master"



thanks everyone for your responses!

[Lord Undies]

First off congratulations to your relatives to live their lives that way it would be very hard. I refuse to live a lie about who I am I will not stay in the closet with millions of other Americans.  For there to be change someone has to stand up to what society says is "normal" otherwise we would have no reform in any area of government.

What in the name of all things societal made you believe my cousins are "in the closet".  They are both very open about with whom they like to have sex.  It just doesn't define their ever breathing moment.  They are just folks first.  And very successful folks at that.  They are both in life-long relationships, even though my male cousin admits no homo male is faithful to one partner.  In fact, they use to cruise bars together when they were younger.  That's the nature of the beast: "So many men - so little time!".  Not much to base a "marriage" upon, huh?

You can't change what is normal.  Sorry.  And I can shoot down each and every argument you have to show how what was once considered normal is now not normal and the other way around.  Normal, like darkness and light, will always be exactly what it is.

Homosexuality will never be normal because homosexual relationships will always require a third person in order for one or both of the queer folk to conceive.  Which brings me to the point where I want to clarify that homosexual is NOT A RACE within the human race.  It is a flaw found in all the real races.  Like birth defects. 

[Splashdown]

ok when I say "equal rights" i mean the same rights that people take for granted and would protest if they were taken away such as Job Security, Hospital Visitation, being in the military and dare I say... Marriage... it is not special consideration

I agree that acting upon urges is a choice, but being lesbian gay bi or transgendered is not a choice there's more to being gay then having sex.  people who are gay fall in love in just the same way that people that are straight. You do not choose who you fall in love with.

I always thought that freedom of religion also meant the freedom from religion. there's a separation between church and state. also sects of Buddhism in the united states that celebrate gay marriage aren't you denying them their religious freedom by denying them marriage?

Where is job security a right? Where is hospital visitation a right? Where is military service a right? Where is marriage a right?


I'm reading the wrong constitution.

[DumbAss Tanker]

In what society has marriage EVER involved any arrangement besides at least one man on one side, and at least one woman on the other?  In the whole of human history, gay marriage is purely a creature of only the last decade, it is indeed a quest for a 'Special' right, not an equal right.

Aside from that, in general I agree with the main drift that private sexual conduct between consenting adults is the business of nobody but the participants, though the gay activist community seems hell-bent on flinging their sexuality in everyone's face, which I find very off-putting, childish, and frankly disgusting.

For reasons that would have to be lived to be understood, and at 17 would be wildly outside your experience or comprehension, I do not think allowing openly gay people into the armed forces is a good idea.

[longview]

The rights that I have, you have. 

People's preferences regarding what they do between two consenting adults is a non-issue for me.  But, I do get annoyed at homosexual prosthelytizing.  As a gay neighbor once said when another gay person brought up their desire for special consideration during a business lunch, "What is wrong with those people?"  She and her partner owned a house together and didn't discriminate in their friendships with the neighbors.

[rich_t]

I am is supporting is giving same-sex relationships that same benefits that married couples have.

Such as?

[The Village Idiot]

4. What I am is supporting is giving same-sex relationships that same benefits that married couples have. 

Same sex "relationships" aren't marriage. If you mean two men or two women who are "madly" in love with each other and want to stay together forever in monogamous bliss they need to use a different word. I don't care what two adult people (we are talking two right?) do but the word "marriage" is already taken, find another word.

And then get ready for the income tax marriage (or whatever word) penalty. heh.

But don't expect or demand "society" to accept it as normal and okay.

[The Village Idiot]

Such as?

Do male-female relationships get the benefit of marriage without marriage?

I have to mean he is asking about two men or two women who are madly and deeply in "love" and want to spend the rest of their lives in a committed, monogamous bliss.

Otherwise he thinks gay shackups are the same as marriage.