Kind of hard to understand what point DUmmy SmileyRose is trying to make, but I guess that's par, considering DUmmy SmileyRose IS a DUmmy:
SmileyRose (1000+ posts) Sat Apr-17-10 12:47 PM
Original message
On "This is the worst economy EVER" and We are doomed.
We have this notion that prior to shipping jobs overseas everyone was living fat and happy on one household income, but that is just simply not true.
My parents married in 1948, had the first kid in 1950 and had the 6th kid in 1965. My father was a HS graduate, but was not much with books - fabulous with common sense and with this hands. Yes there were some damn good union jobs out there for people in his station, but quite frankly mostly shitty ones, where you did not dare get sick or have any sort of family crisis.
My mother HAD to work, and although we had health insurance (my father said it was GOOD insurance) if any of us had any sort of serious ailment or injury Dad had to take a 2nd job until it was paid off. ...
blah, blah, walked ten miles to school, uphill both ways, blah, blah...
What I'm saying is the expectations are VERY different. The average family home now is twice the size or more. Kids seem to expect their own room and everyone seems to expect to be able to buy every gadget on the market. Not being able to afford $100 a month for 300+ channels of HDTV is a minor tragedy (and sometimes a major one).
blah, blah, blah....
I am truly amazed someone at my economic level can even afford access to the internet (dialup) and a cell phone for emergencies (prepaid Tracfone).
As we move forward, and demand more of the profits made by American companies stay in America, in the form of jobs or wages or benefits or taxes paid for government services that make our lives cheaper to live, lets just be real honest about where we are historically. And honestly, I'm not sure it would be an all together bad thing if less of us could afford the gadgets and were forced go sit and talk to each other on our porches once in a while for entertainment.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8166250I honestly do not recall health insurance being much of an issue at all back in the day. Before the Medicare-caused cost explosion, and the astronomical increase in trial lawyers, it just wasn't that big a deal.
You can count on DUmmy Warpy for a breath of fresh air:
Warpy (1000+ posts) Sat Apr-17-10 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. We can afford clothes that wear out fast
and gadgets that mostly do the same but we can't afford health care. Even if we have insurance at work, we can't afford to get more than the common cold or we're facing bankruptcy.
Well, we can afford those clothes and gadgets if we're willing to go into debt to get them.
That, to me, is an increase in the misery of poverty. I know my standard of living declined sharply in the 1970s and never recovered. Wages never kept pace with inflation, and the closer you were to the bottom, the bigger the gap was.
DUmmy Warpy's standard of living took a big hit when she started stealing drugs and lost her nursing license.
SmileyRose (1000+ posts) Sat Apr-17-10 01:20 PM
9. I agree with you.
It is difficult to compare and thus the reason for my post. Expectations have changed so much over the last 20-30 years. There are a lot of variables. I guess I just want us to be real clear about where we stand historically as far as standard of living instead of just accept this is the worst thing since the depression.
charlyvi (1000+ posts) Sat Apr-17-10 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. I remember in my neighborhood when I was coming up
There was one TV (if it was color your were considered well off) and one phone per household. We weren't poor, none of my friend's families were poor, but having your own TV or phone simply wasn't how one lived. Times have really changed, huh?
How poor were we? Well, we were so poor that....
FreakinDJ (1000+ posts) Sat Apr-17-10 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. Your 1st sentance "shipping jobs overseas" explains it all
Yes we had the most robust economy the world has ever known. But that is not the reason America is in decline today.
As we formulated these trade agreements Wall St obviously wrote the agreements. Instead of focusing on bring 3rd world countries up to America's standards, they focused on maximizing profit$ for the few. Instead of bringing Democratic principals to besieged peoples, they empowered dictatorships. Instead of demanding the same environmental protections required of America's manufacturers, they encourage off shoring pollution and "High Polluting Industries"
Sounds like some countries don't have American democrats writing stupid laws and regulations to hamstring their businesses.
laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Sat Apr-17-10 01:10 PM
6. Well, my father with no college supported our family of 6 on his one income from a non union job
in a chemical plant and sent us to parochial schools and retired with a pension. The home I bought in 2005 is not twice the size of the home in which I grew up. Yes, the 'good old days' may not be quite the perfection people like to think but there is no denying that our wages have stagnated/declined over the past 30 years.
I'm not arguing we could scale back the consumerism by a lot but I am asking we don't ignore the fact that wages have gone down and start deciding it's all due to Americans who live beyond their means. That's the ruling class argument right now and it is meant to hide the conditions which are leading to the decline of the working and middle class.
Well, DUmmy laughingliberal, don't feel too bad. Every family has its losers. Your family will still love you, if you keep your mouth shut.
DUmmy Gman2 sounds a lot like bobbolink:
Gman2 (1000+ posts) Sat Apr-17-10 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
7. While you would be LOST without these CONVENIENCES
They now are de rigeur to be or remain employed. All the separate issues involved in our plugged in culture, culminate in being the mark of the beast. No man may buy nor sell, save those having the mark of the beast, upon their hand or forehead. That means, that if you become the poor, especially homeless, you are a pariah. Unable to climb from there. Scum for life. And we dont tolerate OKIES anymore. We jail them, or steal all their belongings. Make laws that cause them to move along. Either you keep up, in every respect, or you crash and burn. And once burning, burn forever. Sounds like hell. Nice place you got here.
Back then, if you were poor, and you told an employer you were HUNGRY, you got a shot. Now, if you need a job, you dont get one. You must already have a job, to get one. Sorta like the new credit scheme.
No, if you said were hungry, you got a sandwich. Today, if you say you're hungry, you are lying.
DUmm lonestarnut, who reported trees in Galveston festooned with corpses after the last hurricane:
lonestarnot (1000+ posts) Sat Apr-17-10 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Looking for the job is the new job.
branders seine (1000+ posts) Sat Apr-17-10 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. we are not doomed,
but the middle class will not recover its stolen wealth until there is a real change in DC.
Does anyone remember when DUmmies had wealth?
4lbs (1000+ posts) Sat Apr-17-10 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
16. My father was able to raise a family throughout the 1970s and 1980s on a single-income, government
salary. Family income was $16,000 per year BEFORE taxes. In essence, a government job that paid $8 per hour.
Before that, I remember us spending two years in a small one-bedroom apartment and being on food stamps and no car. We pretty much walked everywhere or took the bus. That was until my father got that government job that allowed us to buy a home and a car.
Blah, blah, blah, uphill both ways...
My mother didn't start working until I was a junior in high school. Even then, it was a blue-collar assembly line job that was 30 miles from home and didn't pay all that well ($5 per hour, no healthcare). She had to lease a car for work and in essence, half her monthly net income went to the car payment and auto insurance. Car lease payment was $250 monthly and auto insurance was $100 monthly. Because it was a lease, the leasing company wanted the more expensive 100/300/100 auto insurance. In essence, she was spending all that time driving to work and working for a grand total of... $350 per month after taxes and work-related expenses.
Wait a minute! A $250/mo. car lease, with $1200/yr. insurance, during the days of $5/hour assembly lines? Bouncy!! Big time bouncy!! These 20-something DUmmies need to do some research before writing their tales.
More fresh air from DUmmy PassingFair:
PassingFair (1000+ posts) Sat Apr-17-10 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
18. College out of reach for our children. No jobs. Health Insurance unaffordable.
This is not about not eating out or drying clothes on the line.
This is not about "gadgets".
Gloom, despair, and agony on me! Deep dark depression, excessive misery! If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all! Gloom, despair, and agony on me!
SmileyRose (1000+ posts) Sat Apr-17-10 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
The fact is, college now is less obtainable than it was 10 years ago, but it's far EASIER to obtain than it was in 1980 - evidenced by the simple fact a far greater percentage of our population have at least some college and the fact college is now considered an expected norm, not the exception.
Huh?
