Microchips in the healthcare bill

[Angel]

Hey all, I'm really new here, so I wasn't sure where to post this.  I have a website where I try to stay objective and post about the civil rights the government are trying to take away.  Healthcare is such a loaded issue right now that I have a lot of research I have to do about it.  I'm trying to find a way to get CONSERVATIVE opinions on my articles instead of just any random person that feels free to blame it all on Bush instead of inspecting Obama.  I would love your opinions on my latest article but also any advice on the right places to go to get like-minded people to look at it.  I'm pretty new to the whole internet forum thing...

http://www.examiner.com/x-41752-Wilmington-Civil-Rights-Examiner~y2010m4d5-Should-states-ban-microchip-implants

[formerlurker]

Post your article here and we will comment.  If you are just looking for traffic for your blog then no thanks -- you get that with street credibility.   

I do have to ask how you have a blog yet are new to the internet forum thing?   

[rich_t]

Post your article here and we will comment.  If you are just looking for traffic for your blog then no thanks -- you get that with street credibility.   

I do have to ask how you have a blog yet are new to the internet forum thing?   

You beat me to it.

[Angel]

I had a blog that was spread around in the state, but with low traffic.  A friend of mine set it up for me because we needed a forum for our local tea party group to get their message out.  The examiner is a bigger site, so it's spread to more people with much more criticism.  Criticism I can handle but people implying that I'm wrong because I don't agree with the communist manifesto is pointless.
 In the last week I've started looking into social networking sites, but it just occurred to me to google conservative forums.  I have been trying to keep up with the news around the country, but it's tough when the mainstream media keeps conservative news under wraps.  Politics in DE is easy to follow because it's a small state, so I've never thought to really look for like-minded forums that get hits from all over the country.  I guess I'm trying to expand my news database so I can get more opinions and hopefully more facts.  I feel like I represent the fight in DE, and I fight hard, so I also want more info from how people fight in their states.  Does that make sense?

[rich_t]

When you meet new people IRL, do you just say "Hi, I'm Angel.  Please read my blog"?

Cuz that is exactly what you did here.

[Angel]

Nope, that's why I tried to make apologies for my lack of ... manners on the forum, because I am unsure of what exactly is correct in this setting.  I figure people will tell me what is considered rude, so that's kind of my issue.  I mean, is there a place where people post news articles they want others to look at? Did I put this in the wrong forum? This is the kind of advice I would appreciate as I would like to get to know the people here.  I tend to be pretty blunt, so I would appreciate it if others were the same way with me, I'm not so good with subtle.

[rich_t]

Nope, that's why I tried to make apologies for my lack of ... manners on the forum, because I am unsure of what exactly is correct in this setting.  I figure people will tell me what is considered rude, so that's kind of my issue.  I mean, is there a place where people post news articles they want others to look at? Did I put this in the wrong forum? This is the kind of advice I would appreciate as I would like to get to know the people here.  I tend to be pretty blunt, so I would appreciate it if others were the same way with me, I'm not so good with subtle.

Well there is a thread for introducing one's self.

Let us get to know a bit about you first.

It takes a little investment of time and effort.

But well worth it IMO.

[The Village Idiot]

I think I read that one school district is already planning all the kids.

[Angel]

I have heard a lot of speculation regarding the microchips, but most of it is just speculation.  It's hard to find actual facts.  What scares me is the language in the healthcare bill allowing the FDA to register them, but also, do one of the new entities created by the healthcare bill (last count I heard was 157 new entities) have the ability to change the class of the microchip, therefore making it possible to be mandatory.  It seems like they are setting us up for something big here... I just don't like it

[rich_t]

I have heard a lot of speculation regarding the microchips, but most of it is just speculation.  It's hard to find actual facts.  What scares me is the language in the healthcare bill allowing the FDA to register them, but also, do one of the new entities created by the healthcare bill (last count I heard was 157 new entities) have the ability to change the class of the microchip, therefore making it possible to be mandatory.  It seems like they are setting us up for something big here... I just don't like it

Where is that in the health care bill?  What page/section?

[Angel]

“The Secretary shall establish a national medical device registry (in this subsection referred to as the ‘registry’) to facilitate analysis of post market safety and outcomes data on each device that … is or has been used in or on a patient…”

"(2) EFFECTIVE DATE. – The Secretary of Health and Human Services shall establish and begin implementation of the registry under section 519(g) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, as added by paragraph (1) by not later than the date that is 36 months after the date of the enactment of this Act, without regard to whether of not final regulations to establish and operate the registry have been promulgated by such date."

this can be found here http://http//waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/111/AAHCA09001xml.pdf  page 1001 subsection C what they are discussing at this point are current class II devices, but I worry that Implantable Radiofrequency Transponder Devices will end up under this category soon. 

[longview]

I have been interested in this issue.  I am very much against microchipping of livestock, and certainly wouldn't comply willingly with it for myself. 

Most of the sites pull things out of the bill that might suggest a voluntary microchipping of some people with certain complex and high risk conditions.  They also pull out parts that are talking about a federal registry of medical devices that indicate pacemakers, prosthetic joints, certain pumps.  Those devices are already tracked by the manufacturers and I don't know about a government agency.

Anyway, I'm having trouble sorting through the information since most of the sites that are presenting have their own agendas and bias.

[IassaFTots]

I have been interested in this issue.  I am very much against microchipping of livestock, and certainly wouldn't comply willingly with it for myself. 

Curious.  Why are you against microchipping of livestock? 

[The Village Idiot]

I am against letting government/schools microchipping children!

[longview]

Curious.  Why are you against microchipping of livestock? 

Health risk to the animal (some studies indicate cancer risk, some showed infection risk).  Increased cost from the device, the time to handle the animal adding stress at each point of contact (to implant the chip, to read the chip at home, at sale, at the feedlot, at the slaughter facility), cumbersome record keeping which has many chances to have mistakes in it -- all the way, and at each stop, from the pasture to the grocery store.  All that would have increased cost to the consumer and decreased already thin margins for the producers. 

We already have rules and guidelines for safe meat production and very good inspection processes in this country.  And some may be surprised, or find it odd, to learn that meat producers really like the animals they raise and try to give them a comfortable, contented life.  It's a humbling (might not be the best word) job to raise animals knowing the in order to benefit others they will die.

Then there's the privacy issues.

So with people I object based on the health and privacy concerns.

[IassaFTots]

Health risk to the animal (some studies indicate cancer risk, some showed infection risk).  Increased cost from the device, the time to handle the animal adding stress at each point of contact (to implant the chip, to read the chip at home, at sale, at the feedlot, at the slaughter facility), cumbersome record keeping which has many chances to have mistakes in it -- all the way, and at each stop, from the pasture to the grocery store.  All that would have increased cost to the consumer and decreased already thin margins for the producers. 

We already have rules and guidelines for safe meat production and very good inspection processes in this country.  And some may be surprised, or find it odd, to learn that meat producers really like the animals they raise and try to give them a comfortable, contented life.  It's a humbling (might not be the best word) job to raise animals knowing the in order to benefit others they will die.

Then there's the privacy issues.

So with people I object based on the health and privacy concerns.

Ok.  That makes sense.  I guess when I first read your statement I was thinking one would microchip livestock for the same reason one microchips a pet, in the event they get lost.  But after I posted my question, I realized that that was what branding was for.

 

[AllosaursRus]

I have been interested in this issue.  I am very much against microchipping of livestock, and certainly wouldn't comply willingly with it for myself.  

Most of the sites pull things out of the bill that might suggest a voluntary microchipping of some people with certain complex and high risk conditions.  They also pull out parts that are talking about a federal registry of medical devices that indicate pacemakers, prosthetic joints, certain pumps.  Those devices are already tracked by the manufacturers and I don't know about a government agency.

Anyway, I'm having trouble sorting through the information since most of the sites that are presenting have their own agendas and bias.

I am curious as to why you are against micro-chipping livestock? As I raise livestock, just putting a tag in their ear don't work! It' has greatly improved our ability to separate herds that tend to run together. Every year I have cattle that walk right thru a barbed wire fence in order to play with his/her partners next door.

I've had some try and tell me the smaller of two calves "must" belong to me! Sorry that turd don't fly! A micro in the ear identifies my investment.

When we had the Mad Cow scare, it sure made it a helluva lot easier to track cattle with a chip!!!!!!

So why the objection?

People is a whole nuther matter! Big Brother knows too much about me already!

ETA:

Most livestock intended for the dining room table don't live long enough to develop much in the way of cancer. Our Bulls have been genetically bred to all but eliminate it in our stock anyway. We don't grow that grass fed crap you buy outa Wally World or Safeway!

Oh yeah, as far as the cattle are concerned the chip is way more non-invasive than the tag the punch thru their ear! It's more like giving them a shot, and believe me, they get plenty of those!

[longview]

I am curious as to why you are against micro-chipping livestock? As I raise livestock, just putting a tag in their ear don't work! It' has greatly improved our ability to separate herds that tend to run together. Every year I have cattle that walk right thru a barbed wire fence in order to play with his/her partners next door.

I've had some try and tell me the smaller of two calves "must" belong to me! Sorry that turd don't fly! A micro in the ear identifies my investment.

When we had the Mad Cow scare, it sure made it a helluva lot easier to track cattle with a chip!!!!!!

So why the objection?

People is a whole nuther matter! Big Brother knows too much about me already!

I became a fan of all things NoNAIS before the proposed program was stopped.  Since you began using the chips have you had any trouble finding facilities that can utilize that info or are even set up to read them? 

[AllosaursRus]

I became a fan of all things NoNAIS before the proposed program was stopped.  Since you began using the chips have you had any trouble finding facilities that can utilize that info or are even set up to read them?  

We use them ourselves for the most part, for records and identification. Never gave anything else much thought since Mad Cow died down. The info you can upload and download makes genetic productivity much easier. I'd bet we have improved our strains in well less than half the time as before the technology came into the mainstream. Many cows look identical, but can carry very different genes!

BTW, haven't heard anyone complaining about chipping their pets in order to find the lost.

[longview]

BTW, haven't heard anyone complaining about chipping their pets in order to find the lost.

I knew I had, but I'm admittedly anti-chip.  Here's a link.  I didn't do a very extensive search, though.
http://www.examiner.com/x-2111-Tacoma-Dogs-Examiner~y2010m3d26-Pets-101-Microchips--your-dogs-friend-or-foe

I met a man involved in the AI business who made real good arguments for improved record keeping on herd genetics through the use of microchip data.  I'm glad you are having success, too.

[AllosaursRus]

I knew I had, but I'm admittedly anti-chip.  Here's a link.  I didn't do a very extensive search, though.
http://www.examiner.com/x-2111-Tacoma-Dogs-Examiner~y2010m3d26-Pets-101-Microchips--your-dogs-friend-or-foe

I met a man involved in the AI business who made real good arguments for improved record keeping on herd genetics through the use of microchip data.  I'm glad you are having success, too.

Wow! Imagine that. They use a link from AntiChip.com! not exactly a anti-biased opinion. No where could I find any percentile ratio, course I didn't look far. With a monochre like Antichip.com I doubt it would be believable. Kinda like askin' Al Goober about "Global WhatEverItsCalledThisWeek".

As far as our program goes, we haven't had a single instance of cancer caused by the chips. We've been using them for around 4 years. Maybe we just need to implant a hundred chips in one animal, ya know, kinda  like the so called scientists do with various products.

ETA:

Ya know, it can be damned dangerous to cross the street, just ask the chicken. I'm afraid using new technology is far better for society than ignoring it simply because 1 in 100 or 1,0000 may have side effects.

[longview]

Wow! Imagine that. They use a link from AntiChip.com! not exactly a anti-biased opinion. No where could I find any percentile ratio, course I didn't look far. With a monochre like Antichip.com I doubt it would be believable. Kinda like askin' Al Goober about "Global WhatEverItsCalledThisWeek".

As far as our program goes, we haven't had a single instance of cancer caused by the chips. We've been using them for around 4 years. Maybe we just need to implant a hundred chips in one animal, ya know, kinda  like the so called scientists do with various products.

ETA:

Ya know, it can be damned dangerous to cross the street, just ask the chicken. I'm afraid using new technology is far better for society than ignoring it simply because 1 in 100 or 1,0000 may have side effects.

I completely support your right to manage your livestock in anyway you see fit.  You are welcome to use or not use chips on whatever you wish. 

[AllosaursRus]

I completely support your right to manage your livestock in anyway you see fit.  You are welcome to use or not use chips on whatever you wish. 

Don't get me wrong, Longview, I'm not attacking your opinion, on the contrary, you bring up arguments that do indeed need to be addressed. All I'm doing is bringing a perspective from a group of cattlemen who have had little or no adverse effects from using the technology available to an industry that can use all the help we can get!

Too many greenies, enviros, and traditionalists refuse to advance science unless it pads their own pet religion, Global What'sIt'sName!

[longview]

Don't get me wrong, Longview, I'm not attacking your opinion, on the contrary, you bring up arguments that do indeed need to be addressed. All I'm doing is bringing a perspective from a group of cattlemen who have had little or no adverse effects from using the technology available to an industry that can use all the help we can get!

Too many greenies, enviros, and traditionalists refuse to advance science unless it pads their own pet religion, Global What'sIt'sName!

I agree with you.  I think you may be running a very different operation than most of us.  Everybody has challenges that are best met in different ways.

[The Village Idiot]

What happens when the schools decide to microchip the kids?