Author Topic: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees  (Read 6882 times)

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Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2010, 06:40:22 PM »
It's hate speech, plain and simple what they do. It could be an incitement to riot, just as much as any klan rally could be considered to be.

That's tantamount to yell "fire".
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Offline bkg

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2010, 07:01:34 PM »
One person's freedoms end when it tramples on another person's freedom. Case closed.

Whose freedom was trampled on?
How far do you really want to take the line of reasoning? You're on one helluva slippery slope.

Offline debk

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2010, 07:01:53 PM »
Bill O'Reilly is discussing this now.

He just said he would pay the fees, if they stand after further appeal.  :bow:
Just hand over the chocolate...back away slowly...far away....and you won't get hurt....

Save the Earth... it's the only planet with chocolate.

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Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2010, 07:03:21 PM »
Whose freedom was trampled on?
How far do you really want to take the line of reasoning? You're on one helluva slippery slope.

People have a right to have a funeral in peace and picket. Also, funerals are mostly private, so First Amendment don't apply. The First Amendment IS NOT ABSOLUTE.
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Offline bkg

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2010, 07:03:56 PM »
It's hate speech, plain and simple what they do. It could be an incitement to riot, just as much as any klan rally could be considered to be.

It's still protected speech. Hate is subjective. It only takes a look in the news to know that 99% of "hate" complains are crap.

Again - you either have free speech (and freedom of religion/freedom of expression) or you don't. It is not a gray area. Just because YOU don't like it, doesn't mean it should be banned or otherwise limited. Same goes for me or anyone else who doesn't liek what someone says.

Offline bkg

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2010, 07:05:39 PM »
People have a right to have a funeral in peace and picket. Also, funerals are mostly private, so First Amendment don't apply. The First Amendment IS NOT ABSOLUTE.

False.

Funerals heald in a public location have no right to any sort of privacy. The "lack of" right to privacy in a private place is well established.

So when does the 1st amendment end? Who makes that decision? You? Me? Obama? Sorry - I'm not willing to limit some idiotic groups rights to free speech just to make me feel better... because someone WILL limit mine.

Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2010, 07:07:29 PM »
False.

Funerals heald in a public location have no right to any sort of privacy. The "lack of" right to privacy in a private place is well established.

So when does the 1st amendment end? Who makes that decision? You? Me? Obama? Sorry - I'm not willing to limit some idiotic groups rights to free speech just to make me feel better... because someone WILL limit mine.

Let me get this straight, a person using their freedom to trample on one other's person freedom is not freedom. So you have problems with that?
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Offline bkg

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2010, 07:10:24 PM »
Let me get this straight, a person using their freedom to trample on one other's person freedom is not freedom. So you have problems with that?

Once again I will ask. What freedoms were trampled on?

There is no right to privacy in a public place, dude. There is no right to not be offended. There was nothing illegal done here, period.

Distasteful? Hell ya. Immoral? Likely. Violation of someone's rights? FALSE.

Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2010, 07:16:44 PM »
Once again I will ask. What freedoms were trampled on?

There is no right to privacy in a public place, dude. There is no right to not be offended. There was nothing illegal done here, period.

Distasteful? Hell ya. Immoral? Likely. Violation of someone's rights? FALSE.

Of course there is no privacy, but that's not the point or was ever the POINT.
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Offline bkg

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2010, 07:22:19 PM »
Of course there is no privacy, but that's not the point or was ever the POINT.

so I will ask you for the third time... what rights were trampled? 

If you cannot answer that, and balance it against the guaranteed rights outlined in COTUS, then you have no leg to stand on.

I like these people no more than anyone else... but a right is a right.. and distasteful use of that right is, as Vesta said, the risk you face living in a free society.

Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2010, 07:25:12 PM »
so I will ask you for the third time... what rights were trampled?  

If you cannot answer that, and balance it against the guaranteed rights outlined in COTUS, then you have no leg to stand on.

I like these people no more than anyone else... but a right is a right.. and distasteful use of that right is, as Vesta said, the risk you face living in a free society.

People have a right to assemble peacefully. You know to protest in a public event, you have to have a permit. Also, it could be construed as slander.
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Offline bkg

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2010, 07:29:28 PM »
People have a right to assemble peacefully. You know to protest in a public event, you have to have a permit. Also, it could be construed as slander.

Slander is subjective and a separate issue.

And right to gather peacefully does NOT mean the right to gather in a peaceful environment.

Permitting is asking for permission, and a direct violation of the rights guaranteed in the 1st amendment.

You and I will not agree on this.

Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2010, 07:32:54 PM »
Slander is subjective and a separate issue.

And right to gather peacefully does NOT mean the right to gather in a peaceful environment.

Permitting is asking for permission, and a direct violation of the rights guaranteed in the 1st amendment.

You and I will not agree on this.

Have you ever heard of yelling "Fire!"?
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
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Offline IassaFTots

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2010, 07:37:49 PM »
I wonder if Mark Levin's Landmark Legal Foundation would take this case up?

Was listening to Mark Levin on the way home.  This lady apologized, seems she told the screener something out, turns out she professed to being a Democrat, but also a friend of the Snyders, and told him about their plight.  He has links from his show for help, and asked people to contribute, but not through his organization, through the family's.
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Offline bkg

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2010, 07:40:13 PM »
Have you ever heard of yelling "Fire!"?

Apples and watermelons - horrible comparison.

Offline NHSparky

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2010, 07:43:56 PM »
False.

Funerals heald in a public location have no right to any sort of privacy. The "lack of" right to privacy in a private place is well established.

So when does the 1st amendment end? Who makes that decision? You? Me? Obama? Sorry - I'm not willing to limit some idiotic groups rights to free speech just to make me feel better... because someone WILL limit mine.

Well, goody.  Then you won't mind when a few folks show up to piss on the grave of your loved ones.
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.”  -Henry Ford

Offline Hawkgirl

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2010, 07:44:26 PM »
The Supreme Court has never addressed the specific issues of laws designed to protect the "sanctity and dignity of memorial and funeral services" as well as the privacy of family and friends of the deceased. But the high court has recognized the state's interest in protecting those from unwanted protests or communications while in their homes.

The justices will be asked to address how far states and private entities such as cemeteries and churches can go to justify picket-free zones and the use of "floating buffers" to silence or restrict speech or movements of demonstrators exercising their constitutional rights in a funeral setting.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/08/homosexuality.protest/index.html


Offline JLO

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2010, 08:27:27 PM »
http://burnpit.legion.org/2010/03/put-yourself-in-his-dad%E2%80%99s-shoes/

Put yourself in his dad’s shoes

And then reach into your pocket and help this man.

Send checks to:

The American Legion Burnpit
Albert Snyder Fund
P.O. Box 1055
Indianapolis, IN 46206

Payments via credit card can be processed at this link.

Imagine one day you find government vehicles waiting in your driveway, and you know why they are there. And this is the worst moment of your life. But, you know your son died doing what he wanted to do, and you are so very, very proud of him.

And as you get ready to lay him to rest, people from halfway across the country protest outside the cemetery, and you think, this is the very worst moment of my life. As if saying goodbye to a cherished son were not horrific enough for one lifetime, zealots with no sense of taste, decorum or class use your private moment of grieving to pass on their belief that your son died because “God Hates Faggots”.

But, you won’t give in without a fight, because your son didn’t either. So you file suit in court, and first you are awarded vast sums of money for the damage that these miscreants had done to you. But, on appeal, the next court sees the situation differently. See, to you it was never about politics, it was about seeing the blood of your blood go to his silent, eternal rest.

But, it’s not enough that you just lose the case, now you find out that you have to pay these same individuals $16,500 in lawyers’ fees. You see, the protestors themselves are lawyers, allegedly committed to seeing truth and justice prevail. But, to you this isn’t as much about the law as it is seeing that no other family has to go through the pain that you did.

Well, not on our damn watch. This man has suffered enough. So we want to make sure he doesn’t pay one red cent, even though someone will have to. So The American Legion is starting a fund to pay this off, and judging from our previous fund raising experiences here, I anticipate getting all the cash we need. I have already received promises of $200, and I haven’t even posted this yet.

Here is the story from Stars and Stripes in full. I hate to take their entire story, but I will make it up to them over the next few days.

    BALTIMORE — The father of a Marine killed in Iraq and whose funeral was picketed by anti-gay protesters was ordered to pay the protesters’ appeal costs, his lawyers said Monday.

    On Friday, Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit ordered Snyder to pay $16,510 to Fred Phelps. Phelps is the leader of the Westboro Baptist Church, which conducted protests at Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder’s funeral in 2006.

    The two-page decision supplied by attorneys for Albert Snyder of York, Pa., offered no details on how the court came to its decision.

    Attorneys also said Snyder is struggling to come up with fees associated with filing a brief with the U.S. Supreme Court.

    The decision adds “insult to injury,” said Sean Summers, one of Snyder’s lawyers.

    The high court agreed to consider whether the protesters’ message is protected by the First Amendment or limited by the competing privacy and religious rights of the mourners.

[UPDATE I: I will have more info on how you can help later, after I talk to the lawyers.]

[UPDATE II: This doesn't surprise me, although I did not know it until a few minutes ago, but The American Legion is also in the process of filing an Amicus Brief with the Supreme Court on this issue.]

[UPDATE III: National Adjutant is seeding this with a donation of his own. All funds will go to paying these lawyer fees, then for aiding in the Supreme Court filings, and anything above that will be used for other similiarly situated individuals, since alas, this problem likely will not go away soon]

UPDATE IV: My sincere thanks to the Victoria Taft show on KPAM for having me on. If you’d care to listen, you can do so here.

Back to HOME PAGE
This entry was posted on Tuesday, March 30th, 2010 at 1115 and is filed under the burner. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

http://burnpit.legion.org/2010/03/put-yourself-in-his-dad%E2%80%99s-shoes/

UPDATE V: Numerous sources saying that Mr Bill O’Reilly is cutting a check, and assuming it is true, GOOD ON YE Mr. O’Reilly. That doesn’t change us though, as a Supreme Court challenge doesn’t come cheap. We will continue to raise funds, and again 100 percent will go to Mr. Snyder’s fight. Thank you all so VERY much.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 07:13:53 PM by JLO »
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Offline bkg

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2010, 09:02:10 PM »
Well, goody.  Then you won't mind when a few folks show up to piss on the grave of your loved ones.

WTF?  the personal attack is warreneted WHY?  Because I'm not willing to deny someone their 1st amendment rights out of emotion?  :whatever: :whatever:



 


Offline seabelle

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2010, 09:10:30 PM »
Bill O'Reilly is discussing this now.

He just said he would pay the fees, if they stand after further appeal.  :bow:

Just saw this on twitter, good for Billo.   :heart:

Offline NHSparky

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2010, 09:46:06 PM »
WTF?  the personal attack is warreneted WHY?  Because I'm not willing to deny someone their 1st amendment rights out of emotion?  :whatever: :whatever:

No, because you're too much of an assclown to recognize the fact that there ARE limits on the First Amendment--has been ever since its creation.

Back to your cave, little ista.
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Offline Red October

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #46 on: March 30, 2010, 09:50:30 PM »
If God punished the wicked in the manner Mr. Phelps describes, his "congregation" would have all throw clots by now.
 

Offline dutch508

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #47 on: March 30, 2010, 10:02:08 PM »
The Supreme Court has never addressed the specific issues of laws designed to protect the "sanctity and dignity of memorial and funeral services" as well as the privacy of family and friends of the deceased.

This is because up til now, no one has been a big enough assmunch to act the fool at someone's funeral. It's kind of like the warnings on the packaging of everything nowdays. You know some DUmpmonkie tried to use the hairdryer in the shower, and then sued the company because, "No one told me it was dangerous to use electical tools in water."

There are somethings you should just say, "Well, yeah. I shouldn't do that."
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Offline Red October

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #48 on: March 30, 2010, 10:09:36 PM »
If I were to be so fortunate to read of Mr. Phelps' passing in the news, I know I'd be sorely tempted to dig out my old uniform, make a road trip and exercise a little free speech of my own.  Would I be alone?  
 

Offline Chris_

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Re: Marine’s dad ordered to pay protesters’ court fees
« Reply #49 on: March 30, 2010, 10:12:19 PM »
As Seabelle said, just saw Bill O'Reilly say on air that he's picking up the whole tab for this family. He's paying the $16,000 for them and will back them all the way to the Supreme Court. That was awesome to hear.
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