Author Topic: Machine guns seized at Tacoma port  (Read 7526 times)

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Offline Alpha Mare

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Machine guns seized at Tacoma port
« on: February 26, 2010, 05:55:28 PM »

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TACOMA, Wash. - U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers seized a shipment of 30 machine guns that arrived in an ocean container at the Tacoma Seaport last October.

Officials say the shipment of M-4 automatic rifles, manifested only as "Toys and Parts," was valued at nearly $10,000 and was shipped from a manufacturer in Taiwan.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms found that the rifles were tooled to shoot plastic balls, but replacement of internal components with original machine gun components would render the rifles capable of firing live ammunition.

"These rifles could have had far-reaching and potentially devastating ramifications if they had gotten into the hands of individuals who wanted to do harm in the American population," said Customs and Border Protection Area Port Director, Rolando Suliveras, Jr. "This was a good interception by our officers."

The guns will be destroyed.

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Machine-guns-seized-at-Tacoma-port-85246447.html
 
 :thatsright: http://www.airsplat.com/items/GR-WE-CQBR-GBB.htm
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Offline thundley4

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Offline dutch508

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Re: Machine guns seized at Tacoma port
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2010, 06:06:25 PM »
Oh yes....those airsoft guns, made of either plastic or soft metal, could be 're-tooled' to shoot real bullets...




my ass.


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Offline djones520

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Re: Machine guns seized at Tacoma port
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2010, 12:06:57 AM »
Oh yes....those airsoft guns, made of either plastic or soft metal, could be 're-tooled' to shoot real bullets...




my ass.




I'm guessing that "retooling" would cost more then going down to some seedy corner in Tacomo/Seattle and buying 10 guns.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Machine guns seized at Tacoma port
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2010, 12:16:04 AM »
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The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms found that the rifles were tooled to shoot plastic balls, but replacement of internal components with original machine gun components would render the rifles capable of firing live ammunition.

F-troop stikes again.

Interal components like the upper receiver, lower receiver, bolt assembly and bolt carrier?

Yeah...  easy to do.

 :thatsright:
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Machine guns seized at Tacoma port
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2010, 12:18:14 AM »
BTW.

An M4 even a real one is NOT a machine gun.

It s formally classified as a select-fire assualt rifle IIRC.



"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Machine guns seized at Tacoma port
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2010, 07:15:43 AM »
The ATFE does not really care how the military describes it, to them it is either an automatic weapon/machinegun or semiautomatic rifle, there really isn't anything in the middle.

The ATFE also uses a couple of criteria in deciding whether something can be 'Readily made into an automatic weapon,' mainly being the 8-hour rule, which is if their techs can get it to fire at least two rounds on one trigger squeeze after screwing with it for eight hours with the kind of tools to which you have access, to include duct-taping things in place (Yes, any repairs or mods do not have to last longer than popping the second round) then it's an automatic weapon.  This means they will bust you if they simply catch you holding all the parts for a conversion, whether you've actually done anything toward it or not.

I don't know if there is anything valid here or not, with an AR even a polymer lower would work, the lower is the controlled 'Receiver' but it doesn't actually carry any stress from firing, the spring force from the fire control group is all it really needs to deal with.  Although the pivot pins are placed slightly differently on a AR vs an M16/M4 (And there are adaptations for that), all the full-auto or select fire parts are in the lower, except the bolt carrier (And it is not difficult to either alter or just find an M16 carrier to fit).  I do remember a few years ago that there was an AK-based air rifle they banned because they felt that it was 'way too feasible to strip it down and turn it back into an AK receiver.
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Offline Airwolf

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Re: Machine guns seized at Tacoma port
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2010, 04:19:22 PM »
They should do away with the circus known as BATFE.
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Offline jinxmchue

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Re: Machine guns seized at Tacoma port
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2010, 07:17:33 PM »
Anyone else catch this:

Quote
U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers seized a shipment of 30 machine guns that arrived in an ocean container at the Tacoma Seaport last October.

Officials say the shipment of M-4 automatic rifles, manifested only as "Toys and Parts," was valued at nearly $10,000 and was shipped from a manufacturer in Taiwan.

That comes out to over $300 for each gun.  From what I can tell from a quick Google search, real M4s cost three to four times that much.

Offline thundley4

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Re: Machine guns seized at Tacoma port
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2010, 09:04:28 PM »
Anyone else catch this:

That comes out to over $300 for each gun.  From what I can tell from a quick Google search, real M4s cost three to four times that much.

The airsoft guns are listed at $395, so maybe they knew what the guns really were.

Offline dutch508

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Re: Machine guns seized at Tacoma port
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2010, 11:57:48 PM »
The airsoft guns are listed at $395, so maybe they knew what the guns really were.

a decent airsoft gun can run you abour 400 quatroons. there is no way they can be made into a real weapon. The metal in the reciever is not strong enough to take it. This is some dumbass anti-gunner at the BATF trying to make a point.
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Offline Airwolf

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Re: Machine guns seized at Tacoma port
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2010, 12:51:12 PM »
a decent airsoft gun can run you abour 400 quatroons. there is no way they can be made into a real weapon. The metal in the reciever is not strong enough to take it. This is some dumbass anti-gunner at the BATF trying to make a point.

Which is why I said the whole thing needs to be abolished.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Machine guns seized at Tacoma port
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2010, 01:20:14 PM »
This is some dumbass anti-gunner at the BATF trying to make a point.

After I build my machine gun outta this plastic toy...will the agent be willing to test fire it for me? .....He can telephone me from the firing range.
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Offline Alpha Mare

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Re: Machine guns seized at Tacoma port
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2010, 04:45:18 PM »
"Anyone, with any knowledge of weapons, should be able to figure that out."  Well, that leaves Agent Crenshaw out. :rotf:

[youtube=425,350]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9rEuTwYALho&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9rEuTwYALho&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/youtube]
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Offline jinxmchue

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Re: Machine guns seized at Tacoma port
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2010, 07:53:08 PM »
The airsoft guns are listed at $395, so maybe they knew what the guns really were.

Obviously.

"But!  But!  They can be modified!  MA-DEE-FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIED!"

Yeah, I can modify my Blazer to be a battering ram, but that doesn't mean it should be confiscated, you anti-gun boobs.

Offline Alpha Mare

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Re: Machine guns seized at Tacoma port
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2010, 09:35:18 PM »
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Crenshaw helpfully displayed his knowledge and expertise with firearms in an interview with Portland’s KOIN6 by attempting to put a magazine into one of the WE Tech CQBR backwards. This is apparently the same Special Agent Kelven Crenshaw that ATF whistleblower site Cleanup ATF says is a former assistant director demoted and moved for incompetence, reprisals against his own employees, and regulation violations.

Ben Martin describes a long train of inconsistency and abuse by Customs and Border Protection at the Airsoft Outlet NW website. Martin claims that a CBP agent in Portland forcefully removed the plastic tips required on Airsoft guns in order to claim the shipment was illegal. Agents within the same office in Tacoma even made contradictory claims about the now infamous shipment of WE Tech M4s that arrived without orange tips, with one agent claiming that Airsoft Outlet NW’s business practice of not selling their replicas to those under 18 without parental consent meant that the Airsoft guns would then be classified as BB guns, and therefore did not legally require orange tips.

And the CBP website seems to confirm that Airsoft guns do not have to have orange tips:

Air soft, paintball, bb guns, and other guns that use a gas or air pellet or mechanical spring action to fire a projectile are not subject to Department of Commerce regulations for toy or imitation firearms that require bright orange plugs or other markers to be affixed to the end of the barrel (15 CFR 1150).

15 CFR 1150.1 specifically exempts “traditional B-B, paint-ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of compressed air, compressed gas or mechanical spring action, or any combination thereof,” which would seem to mean the justification for Customs seizure of this shipment is based upon ignorance of the very regulations they are meant to enforce.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/agents-of-incompetence-customs-atf-dodging-all-questions-about-toy-guns-part-iii/2/

Quote
You have now seen fit to allow 5 PCS moves to be exhausted in furtherance of a SES boondoggle that cannot under any of the Bureaus policies or justify a profound benefit to the Bureau other than to quiet or appease Former AD Crenshaw.
http://cleanupatf.org/discussion/2009/08/another-senior-atf-executive-removed---receives-five-paid-moves-due-to-incompetence.html


A quick Google of this idiot confirms his incompetence-lies, cover-ups, etc.  Looks like the ATF's 'unable' to fire him.


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Offline Airwolf

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Re: Machine guns seized at Tacoma port
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2010, 10:56:56 PM »
One can only hope his own stupidity will do him in.
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Offline Randy

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Re: Machine guns seized at Tacoma port
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2010, 06:56:45 AM »
Well then I now know what I'll be doing this morning. I'm going to take a loaded magazine and the upper off my Bushmaster and head to the Flea Market. There's an Airsoft guy there.  So by what I've seen here I'll be able to knock off the plastic tip, slap on the upper and insert the magazine backwards and have a fully functioning machine gun?


 :-)
 :rotf:
 :lmao:
 :mental:



Offline catsmtrods

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Re: Machine guns seized at Tacoma port
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2010, 07:12:55 AM »
That's all they can face is toy guns. They are real tough on women and babies too. Oh yeah religious compounds and dogs. Why don't we see them down on the border facing the drug runners with real guns?  Waste of taxpayer money POSes!
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Machine guns seized at Tacoma port
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2010, 09:53:52 AM »
Well then I now know what I'll be doing this morning. I'm going to take a loaded magazine and the upper off my Bushmaster and head to the Flea Market. There's an Airsoft guy there.  So by what I've seen here I'll be able to knock off the plastic tip, slap on the upper and insert the magazine backwards and have a fully functioning machine gun?


 :-)
 :rotf:
 :lmao:
 :mental:





Sweet!  I'm waiting for the Airsoft Mk 19 belt-fed grenade launcher or M2 .50 cal HMG to work a conversion, though.

:lmao:
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Offline Mike220

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Re: Machine guns seized at Tacoma port
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2010, 08:26:20 PM »


Sweet!  I'm waiting for the Airsoft Mk 19 belt-fed grenade launcher or M2 .50 cal HMG to work a conversion, though.

:lmao:

Can you get some sabot and HEAT rounds for me?



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This Airsoft tank is a Ready to Battle tank meaning that it comes with everything needed to get you rolling. 1/24 scale, 3 channel remote control tank fires 6mm Airsoft BBs! Full-function remote controls tank movement, 320 degree turret rotation and 20 degree height, as well as firing (40 BB capacity)! Maximum firing range of about 25 meters. Length: 41cm. 2-level forward speed control (forward, backward, spin, super spin). Set includes: battle tank, remote control, battery charger, Rechargeable battery included and accessories.

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