The People of Love and Tolerance Speak

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Haole Girl  (1000+ posts)      Fri Jan-29-10 09:25 PM
Original message
How do people date, even marry, Republicans if they are Liberal?
 I am asking this so I'll understand. Because, to me, if you love someone
you love them as a whole. You take the whole package. Everything.

I'd really like this explained to me. And I'm asking sincerely.

Please don't flame me. I get that, already, in GD.
 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x9229958

muffin1  (1000+ posts)      Fri Jan-29-10 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. This has always mystified me, too.
 Someone in the lounge is having an issue with her BF over this. Some of the replies are so mature (focus on the things you agree on, he sounds like a nice guy, etc). I just cannot fathom such a relationship. I barely get along with my fundie father. We talk about the most banal things - the weather, TV shows - it's difficult to not let loose when it's been a bad day for liberals. We got into a HUGH fight the day Ted Kennedy died. *sigh*

bigwillq  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-29-10 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. Don't know
 I have never been in that position. I have always dated people that were open-mided, liberal or at least liberal-leaning.

Mind you, bigwillq sports the gay rights flag for an avatar. Good thing he has been able to steer clear of all those rabid conservative homosexuals.

Duer 157099  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-29-10 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I think it's much easier to have religious differences than political ones
 To me, someone's political orientation isn't just an ideological stance, it has actual real-world implications because they are voters (and if they don't vote, that's in itself a vote) and they help to decide very real things that affect peoples lives, liberty and happiness. There's a direct connection in my mind.

With religion, it can easily stay within the confines of an ideological disagreement. The worst they can do is pray for you and worry that you'll go to hell. Me, that doesn't bother me at all. But someone I know who actively votes to screw with my life, that bothers me. A lot.

This one is redeemable:

WildEyedLiberal (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-29-10 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
10. It's hard to remember in the echo chamber of DU but not all repubs are cut from the same cloth
 Edited on Fri Jan-29-10 09:52 PM by WildEyedLiberal
No snark intended, by the way, in my post headline - I just think that in a place like this, surrounded by like-minded people talking about the idiot Repukes in Congress and on Free Republic, we forget that not everyone who identifies as "conservative" is a flaming idiot racist hatemongering moron.

When I think about how much I hate conservative policies, it seems impossible that I could ever be civil to a Republican - and yet I am, because not all of my friends are liberal or Democrats. I obviously disagree with a lot of what these folks say, but we either avoid the topic of politics altogether or keep any debate friendly and civil. Also, most people don't live and breathe politics the way people on DU do, so even if someone is a "Republican," it doesn't mean they're out at teabagger rallies. Most people are fairly casual about their politics.

I have a friend who is actually an intern for a local Republican group, and while we disagree on a LOT, he's more of a libertarian Republican - a BIG Ron Paul supporter back in 08. I don't like Ron Paul, either, but I also recognize that not everyone in this country agrees with me, and I'd frankly prefer to see libertarian-style Republicans as an opposition party than the current theocratic neocon nightmares, so I support his efforts to oppose those factions within the party.

Long story short, someone being a Republican doesn't mean they're a rabid Sarah Palin mouthpiece. But, everyone has their deal-breakers, and I understand if voting Republican is someone's deal-breaker. But the absolute biggest ****ing asshole I ever dated was a big "progressive" activist, so I know that "good" politics in no way ensures that someone is a decent, kind person. Kindness and decency come before everything - politics included. 

WritingIsMyReligion (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-29-10 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
15. I have no clue either.
 It literally mystifies me. I suppose a paleocon would be one thing, but neocons hell no. Even a paleocon would be bizarre.

Bennyboy  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-29-10 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
17. The BIG DEAL Breaker for me.....
 that and kids in the home.

Forkboy  (1000+ posts)      Fri Jan-29-10 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. That's one I can't ever figure out.
 Being liberal is such a crucial part of who I am that I can't imagine even getting along with someone who didn't share a good portion of those values, at least on a solid enough basis for a relationship. Hell, I can barely tolerate people I agree with! 

demmiblue  (1000+ posts)      Fri Jan-29-10 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
19. Well, it helps if one is aware of real life happenings.
 People that have no idea what is going on in the world are, to me, neither liberal or conservative. They are simply unaware. For example, there was a person who posted an OP in GD praising Sandra Day O'Connor. This person had absolutely no clue as to her role in the 2000 election. Very strange that this would happen on a political board; sometimes ignorance is bliss!

But this is the one that caught my eye:

Nuclear Unicorn (688 posts)      Fri Jan-29-10 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
13. Hi
 

If I may be presumptuous I think you guys are talking about me.

Yeah, I lit into my BF last week and almost lost him because I said some really cruel things.

The fact of the matter is: he is really good to me. I've been with some real losers from the archetypical misogynist jock to a layabout that lived in my apartment for 6 months before I threw him out lest my roommate throw me out.

He's a good guy and I want to make him happy and I know he tries to make me happy. So what if our politics get back-burnered while we're in the same room. I'm still allowed to be me.

He accepts me, why can't I accept him?

Apparently she has updated her thread:

Nuclear Unicorn (688 posts)      Fri Jan-29-10 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
20. UPDATE
 I made a second attempt to call him the next day but was put through to voice mail again. I didn't leave a message that time either. I figured he was done with me. I cried...a lot actually.

Then saturday night I get a call about 11pm. It's his phone number. I answered.

"You need to come get your boyfriend," it's one of his vet buddies. "He's passed out and he's bringing down the party."

"I don't think he wants to see me anymore."

"Whatever, just get out here."

Long story short: they had a party to cheer him up but he got plastered REAL FAST and kept talking about me the whole time. They helped put him in my car and I took him back to my place.

BTW - it's not easy getting someone who is THAT inebriated up four flights of stairs. I'm only 115 lbs and he's got almost 70 lbs on me

While he was still plastered he would see that it was me holding him up and he mutter "why do you ****ing hate me?"

I put him in my bed and went to the living room to cry.

I woke up in the morning to the sounds of him puking in the bathroom. I brought him a bottle of water. He took it and asked why I came to get him.

I told him I was sorry.

Again for brevity: He told me he would never lecture me to make me believe what he believes. He says he doesn't agree with much of what I believe but that he (here he had a very pregnant pause as he searched for his next word) "cared" about me anyway and that my beliefs were part of what made him "care" about me so much. He said if I really thought that way about what he believes in that I should run away from him.

I told him I didn't think that way. I don't agree with what he believes but I know he isn't a hater.

We went back to the bedroom. He said he needed a few more hours sleep and if I wanted him to leave he'd call a cab. Told him to crash at my place. He curled up and I went to the kitchen to get a couple more bottles of water. I curled up next to him as he started snoring.

When he woke up I wanted to get a little frisky but he said he had a headache. It must have been a really bad headache.

We've spent most of the last couple nights just quietly cuddling, watching stupid movies (although I learned he has a thing for some old time actor named Cary Grant, fun stuff to watch, actually). He stayed over last night.

A couple of times I playfully tried to get him to better define what he meant when he said he "cared" about me after such a noticeable pause. He would only smile and kiss my forehead.


Things have been kind of subdued but he's coming around. I can't help but think it could have ended horribly. I missed him. I'm glad he's back. Thanks to most of you for your good advice.

Thanks

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x9220988

Haole Girl  (1000+ posts)      Fri Jan-29-10 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Though I'm worried about the lack of communication you've described...
 I'm happy you are happy. 
Haole, (pronounced: How-leh) in the Hawaiian language, means "foreign" or "foreigner"; it can be used in reference to people, plants, and animals. ...

Nuclear Unicorn (688 posts)      Fri Jan-29-10 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. To be fair...
 ...we talk about all sorts of stuff, just not politics. Some of it pretty deep.

We've talked about marriage. (Me: no)

We've talked about family ( Mutually: NO!)

We've talked about his troubles. At first he was very closed about that but I think once he stopped being embarrassed he became very open with me.

He knows I can be quite fiery about my politics and he wants bartender rules: no religion or politics. I understand where he comes from because he CAN argue his points but he doesn't WANT to argue them to me. I respect that so I return the favor. He's never comes close to telling me to not believe what I believe we just don't try to convert each other.

His family certainly doesn't pull punches. His mother flat out told me when I first met her that they did not approve of us having sex outside of marriage. We weren't allowed to stay at their house overnight during the holidays even though his older brother did with his wife. Keeping one's opinions to one's self is not a trait they practice in that house.

Naturally I was pretty friggin' livid being treated like that but he said he wasn't ashamed of me and being with me was more important than fighting about religion and politics.

Mind you, this was wa-a-ay before last week's blow-up. Since his troubles from his time in the army started they really warmed up to me. I think they think that since I was sticking with him even during his troubles that somehow constituted us being almost sort of kind of married (although we couldn't spend the night in their house) they were a lot more accepting of me.

Yippee?

Anyway: He's good to me. I like having him around. I think I love him.

 

WildEyedLiberal (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-29-10 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Here's the thing - he thinks you conflate all awful things about conservatives/Republicans with HIM
 Edited on Fri Jan-29-10 09:00 PM by WildEyedLiberal
Which, honestly, after you described pulling away from him when he tried to hug you and then unloading your anger on him in the OP, he was fairly justified in assuming you thought he was just as awful as everything you were railing against.

If you need some perspective, try putting the shoe on the other foot. What if he were the one who just couldn't contain his diatribes about "godless lazy America-hating good-for-nothing welfare queen liberal commies"? What if, every time he was pissed at Obama, he took it out on you personally? Wouldn't you assume that he imagined YOU to be "just as bad" as the caricature of "liberals" he's built up in his mind? And wouldn't that hurt, since YOU know that you are none of those things?

Now, I'm not saying that's what he actually believes about liberals, but all I'm saying is - it SUCKS to be on the receiving end of someone else's political ire because they blame YOU for everything that's wrong with the country. And, honestly, it sounds like that's what you're doing with your BF. Now, only you know if he really is a hateful bigoted homophobic racist corporatist. If he really is, then yes, you'll never see eye to eye with him. But if he's NOT - and just because he identifies as a Republican or a conservative does NOT mean he is, some people just do so out of old lazy family loyalties (well my dad's a Republican, etc) or because he's military and has some misguided belief that Republicans support soldiers more - then you are hurting him very deeply by projecting all your hatred of conservatives onto him. And I don't blame him for being hurt.

You just really need to sit down and evaluate how you're dealing with your politics with regard to him, and honestly reckon with yourself whether or not he's part of the problem. If you don't think he is, then you need to realize how your accusations hurt him. And if you're willing to work, then you need to find a way to be proactive with your progressive politics in a way that doesn't constantly accuse him of being part of the conspiracy to ruin America. Don't ever abandon your personal beliefs because of what anyone wants, but don't be so strident and rigid that you assume that everyone who doesn't agree with you is your mortal enemy, either. There IS a difference between conservatives who genuinely care about America and just have a different perspective - I have civil debates with friends like that all the time - and those who are the loud, ugly, racist hatemongers. Don't ruin what sounds like an otherwise good thing by confusing the two.

Nuclear Unicorn (688 posts)      Fri Jan-29-10 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. It's not easy admitting being wrong.
 You and EFerrari are right.

Thank you

EFerrari?

THE EFerrari?

EFerrari  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-29-10 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
22. Why did you punish your boyfriend for something that happened
 in national politics that was completely out of his control?

It doesn't seem like a matter of keeping back your politics when you're around him but of managing your own anger instead of misdirecting it at him. That's your job, no matter who you're with.

 

[Zathras]

The bigger question is how anyone in a sane and normal state of mind can have a relationship with any of the dregs of the DUmp.

[Carl]

Haole Girl  (1000+ posts)      Fri Jan-29-10 09:25 PM
Original message
How do people date, even marry, Republicans if they are Liberal?
 I am asking this so I'll understand. Because, to me, if you love someone
you love them as a whole. You take the whole package. Everything.

I'd really like this explained to me. And I'm asking sincerely.

Please don't flame me. I get that, already, in GD.
 

The problem you have most likely is that you only have known hate so you are grasping at what love is.

[blitzkrieg_17]

It's not every day that you see a bigger Bouncy added on top of an existing one. -500 bongs for the radioactive one-horned primitive.

[The Village Idiot]

The bigger question is how anyone in a sane and normal state of mind can have a relationship with any of the dregs of the DUmp.

Did it ever occur to these people that literally half the people in this country almost never think about politics at all?

[GOBUCKS]

A hugely disproportionate number of democrats are queer, so they have no problem with conservatives. There may be a microscopic number of queers who vote Republican, but by definition they are socially moonbats. Most hetero democrats will likewise have little problem, since very few decent and civilized people can get past the odor of the average democrat, aside from those temporarily operating in "any port in a storm" mode. We've all been there at one time or another.

[BEG]

How can they say we aren't open minded while at the same time saying they have only dated someone "just like them".   While also saying if someone is black and conservative they better get back on the liberal plantation.  While saying that women who are conservative aren't "real" women.  How is that tolerance and open minded?   The only acceptable people to them are people "just like them". 

[BEG]

WildEyedLiberal (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-29-10 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
10. It's hard to remember in the echo chamber of DU but not all repubs are cut from the same cloth
 Edited on Fri Jan-29-10 09:52 PM by WildEyedLiberal
No snark intended, by the way, in my post headline - I just think that in a place like this, surrounded by like-minded people talking about the idiot Repukes in Congress and on Free Republic, we forget that not everyone who identifies as "conservative" is a flaming idiot racist hatemongering moron.

When I think about how much I hate conservative policies, it seems impossible that I could ever be civil to a Republican - and yet I am, because not all of my friends are liberal or Democrats. I obviously disagree with a lot of what these folks say, but we either avoid the topic of politics altogether or keep any debate friendly and civil. Also, most people don't live and breathe politics the way people on DU do, so even if someone is a "Republican," it doesn't mean they're out at teabagger rallies. Most people are fairly casual about their politics.

I have a friend who is actually an intern for a local Republican group, and while we disagree on a LOT, he's more of a libertarian Republican - a BIG Ron Paul supporter back in 08. I don't like Ron Paul, either, but I also recognize that not everyone in this country agrees with me, and I'd frankly prefer to see libertarian-style Republicans as an opposition party than the current theocratic neocon nightmares, so I support his efforts to oppose those factions within the party.

Long story short, someone being a Republican doesn't mean they're a rabid Sarah Palin mouthpiece. But, everyone has their deal-breakers, and I understand if voting Republican is someone's deal-breaker. But the absolute biggest ****ing asshole I ever dated was a big "progressive" activist, so I know that "good" politics in no way ensures that someone is a decent, kind person. Kindness and decency come before everything - politics included.

Liar.....libertarians are the total opposite of progressives.  I would think you would be more comfortable with a McCain-Republican than a libertarian-Republican as McCain is a progressive-republican and more closely aligned with your views than a libertarian.  Libertarians want limited government while people like you want government to take over your life. 

[MrsSmith]

Forkboy  (1000+ posts)      Fri Jan-29-10 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. That's one I can't ever figure out.
 Being liberal is such a crucial part of who I am that I can't imagine even getting along with someone who didn't share a good portion of those values, at least on a solid enough basis for a relationship. Hell, I can barely tolerate people I agree with!

For some reason, I think this one is truthful. 

 

[GOBUCKS]

I'd frankly prefer to see libertarian-style Republicans as an opposition party than the current theocratic neocon nightmares, so I support his efforts to oppose those factions within the party.

I think most democrats would agree. Libertarians tend to sound like lunatics, and rarely accomplish anything but the election of democrats. Democrats hate "theocratic neocons" because they have a winning track record. If I were a democrat, I'd love libertarians.

[BEG]

I think most democrats would agree. Libertarians tend to sound like lunatics, and rarely accomplish anything but the election of democrats. Democrats hate "theocratic neocons" because they have a winning track record. If I were a democrat, I'd love libertarians.

LOL I didn't think of it that way.   

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

How can they say we aren't open minded while at the same time saying they have only dated someone "just like them".   While also saying if someone is black and conservative they better get back on the liberal plantation.  While saying that women who are conservative aren't "real" women.  How is that tolerance and open minded?   The only acceptable people to them are people "just like them". 

I think the word you are looking for is: narcissist.

[IassaFTots]

We've spent most of the last couple nights just quietly cuddling, watching stupid movies (although I learned he has a thing for some old time actor named Cary Grant, fun stuff to watch, actually). He stayed over last night.

Oh well hell.  Just Damn. 

[GOBUCKS]

We've spent most of the last couple nights just quietly cuddling, watching stupid movies (although I learned he has a thing for some old time actor named Cary Grant, fun stuff to watch, actually). He stayed over last night.

Obviously, he's attracted to her mind. This is what I meant by "any port in a storm" mode.

[Chris]

Obviously, he's attracted to her mind.

Yeah, she's a keeper.

[AllosaursRus]

I think the word you are looking for is: narcissist.

Oh! I thought the word was "useless"!

[BlueStateSaint]

Oh! I thought the word was "useless"!

They at least sound alike . . .

[TheSarge]

bigwillq  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-29-10 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. Don't know
 I have never been in that position. I have always dated men

Fixt.