Author Topic: primitives discuss passing the buck, U.S. Marines  (Read 1120 times)

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Offline franksolich

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primitives discuss passing the buck, U.S. Marines
« on: January 14, 2010, 12:09:10 PM »
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7420377

Oh my.

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Mike K (63 posts)      Fri Jan-08-10 01:14 AM
Original message
 
"I Assume Full Responsibility." 

I can't speak for today's military but back in the fifties it was widely accepted that a platoon of Marines was worth a company of ordinary (Army)soldiers. That isn't my subjective opinion. I heard it from my father and an uncle, both of whom were in the Army and served in the Pacific, including Guadalcanal, and from several other WW-II and Korea vets.

As I learned later in life this reputation was not the result of physical or mental superiority on the part of individual Marines. It came about as the result of rigid training, one important aspect of which was an inculcated sense of responsibility and impending accountability: In the Marine Corps there are no excuses, only reasons. When something goes wrong somebody is responsible and whoever that somebody is will be held accountable.

As a result of this rigid and pervasive policy very few things ever go wrong. Weapons and equipment are maintained to perfection, every i is dotted, every t is crossed, every order is instantly and precisely obeyed -- or there will be very unpleasant consequences. And there are no exceptions.

The bottom line to this Spartan rigidity is maximum efficiency in the field which translates to superior performance and minimal casualties.

President Obama's assumption of responsibility for the near loss of 300 lives on Christmas day is in fact an extremely irresponsible gesture. It is a statement of intent to forego accountability for a serious failure, the ultimate effect of which will be corrosive to the future efficiency of a critically important security agency, the TSA.

Mr. Nice Guy is playing loose and careless with the lives of airline passengers and in doing so he is demonstrating abject incompetence as a leader. He is indeed responsible and that responsibility is for him to determine who allowed this potentially deadly incident to take place and to take appropriate action, both against the individuals involved and their immediate supervisors. And if he doesn't do this he is inviting similar misfeasance, just as his unwillingness to hold certain members of the Bush Administration accountable for their many egregious crimes ensures that future administrators will not be discouraged from doing the same or worse things.

In my opinion, Barack Obama is a nice person but a poor excuse for a President.

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av8rdave  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-08-10 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
 
1. I don't think he ever said he wasn't interested in finding where the problem was

Rather, he was taking ownership of the problem instead of finger pointing, playing politics and looking for scapegoats.

A bit of a contrast with his predecessor, don't you think?

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nemo137 (1000+ posts)      Fri Jan-08-10 01:25 AM
Response to Original message

2. To take another 50's memory.

There was a sign on President Truman's desk reading "The Buck Stops Here," i.e. at the end of the day, it's the president's responsibility.

An obscure unterprimitiven:

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The_Casual_Observer (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-08-10 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
 
3. On the other hand there was jr bush, who took responsibility for nothing

He is a moron, but guys like you just love him.

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EmeraldCityGrl  (1000+ posts)      Fri Jan-08-10 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
 
4. This is extremely harsh.

There seems to be an assumption that we, the public, are privy to every decision and action taken.

You are assuming no one was held responsible, reprimanded or even fired. There could be mid level employees that were responsible for not forwarding the intelligence and are being dealt with behind  the scenes. That Obama took the ultimate responsibility and assumed "the buck stops here" response was admirable.

I have my problems with him, but to suggest he is "demonstrating abject incompetence as a leader" is over the top and petty.

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Oregone  (1000+ posts)      Fri Jan-08-10 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
 
5. For ****'s sake, who ****ing cares about this any more?

Talk about politicizing an incompetent malcontent's failure.

Why are you so fixated on 300 people who *might* have died, when you could be ranting about the ~450 drunk driving fatalities and ~840 death due to lack of health insurance that have occurred since Christmas day. How many little girls get molested in the US each day? How many die of easily treatable diseases? How many families just got kicked out of their homes and onto the streets?

Damn man. We have real ****ing problems to deal with, rather than this He-Man vs Skeletor terrorism bullshit. Its all a crock being used to justifying the feeding of the monster in a post cold-war era.

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EmeraldCityGrl  (1000+ posts)      Fri Jan-08-10 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
 
7. some people expect Obama to tuck them in and read them a bedtime story too. FEAR, FEAR, FEAR....we're all gonna die!!!!

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av8rdave  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-08-10 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
 
6. Another thought....

"In my opinion, Barack Obama is a nice person but a poor excuse for a President."

My guess is that this isn't your opinion. I would wager that it's Rush's, or Glenn's, or Sean's, or Bill's. All unbiased observers of politics, of course.

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azurnoir  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-08-10 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
 
8. Being Commander in Chief means taking responsibility and then finding the problem rather than whining it's them not me or it was the guy before me's fault as the former pResident did but I can understand why you might try this talking point here first. but the tea just doesn't brew well

welcome to DU but this may not be the best water to "dip your bag" in

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TexasObserver  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-08-10 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
 
9. What is that smell?! OMG! Oh, it's your OP.

Your view of Marines and their comparative value to the US military is misplaced.

They're the least important branch of the military ladder, and they consistently get the recruits that test the lowest, have the most criminal problems, and have the poorest educations. Marines play a role in the US military, but their rep and your commentary are largely matters of fiction. When did the Marines win the war in Iraq and Afghanistan? Or Vietnam? They serve, and they're useful, but don't paint them as more than they are. That's recruiting drivel.

The balance of your post is even more flawed and doesn't require any rebuttal.

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DIKB  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-08-10 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #9
 
10. I was raised military and have friends serving now.

Brad - Army Psyops
Dirk - Navy Nuke
Andrew - Marine ground-pounder (May he R.I.P.)

You would NEVER get either my navy friend or army buddy to say that a marine was worth many of him or those serving alongside him. Too much pride in their own branch of the military, if not their own specific field.

You're right, the OP reeks to high hell.

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proteus_lives  (1000+ posts)      Fri Jan-08-10 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
 
11. That's right.

I have Army grunts and and Marines in my family. They love ragging on each other but admit the other service was better then their own? They'd set themselves on fire first.

I smell something too.

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TexasObserver  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-08-10 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #11
 
15. Yes. I've never once heard a single grunt say something like that.

I was in the Air Force forty years ago, and I had uncles in each branch of the military and friends in each branch. To this day, I've never heard any military man say any other branch was better than his branch. Not once. And that includes the military men I know who are in the military now - all of whom are my children's generation.

The whole mythology written in the OP sounds like someone who has never been in the military and never known anyone in the military. It sounds like it was pulled from one of those sappy emails the wingers love to send each other. It sound like the kind of pro GOP emails I still get from guys I knew 40 years ago who wouldn't join the military, like I did, and who used any excuse available (like Rush Limbaugh) to avoid service. But they're all 60 years old now, and haven't voted for a Democrat since they were 1-A. They sure do love to talk about how the USA needs to go kill some foreigners somewhere, though.

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TexasObserver  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-08-10 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #10
 
12. Every branch of the military thinks they're the best.

And even the baddest bad asses want that air cover when they really need it. Pinned down? Call in the Air Force. Want to pound a position from 40 miles off shore? Call in the Navy. They have guns that fire loads the size of a small car, and will hit targets with great precision.

During Vietnam, on R&R, Army and Marines would have brutal bar fights while they were on R&R. Navy and Air Force guys stayed out of the fighting, but the Army and Marines would go at it. They had a week away from the jungle, and they'd spend part of it in fist fights in bars over who was the baddest bad ass.

We need all the services, and I don't mean to denigrate the Marines, but I also don't like the phony hero worship. Soldiers are typically young guys who don't know much about anything except the things they've been taught by their military superiors. That's why so many in Iraq think Saddam had something to do with 9-11. That's why they think Afghanistan is about stopping terror attacks in the US. Most don't know history. They don't know politics. They don't understand anything about foreign policy.

If they're Marines, they know taking that hill. If they're Army, they know taking that hill, but using more weapons than just small arms. If they're Air Force, they know bombing that hill until it's flat and smoldering, and nothing alive remains on it. If they're Navy, they know how to paint and salute. Just kidding, sailors.

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JHB  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-08-10 10:29 AM
Original message
 
Same as when Reagan "took responsibility" for the Vincennes plane shoot-down

It's a grandstand move to placate critics, but it can actually impede proper investigation and accounting for the incident.

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PVnRT  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-08-10 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
 
18. "The buck stops here"

Familiar with that quote? Obama is the chief, and the chief takes the blame, unless the chief is a scum weasel who gets others to take the fall for him.

The bomber is in custody and will be tried, and Obama called out the intelligence community on national television shortly thereafter. Either you expect to see mass firings or you're one of the scaredy-cats who want to sacrifice even more civil liberties so you don't feel quite as scared.

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guitar man  (1000+ posts)      Fri Jan-08-10 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
 
19. It's very cold out today

I hope the pizza delivery guy can make it to you with at least a warm pizza if not a not one...

The ukelele primitive must be stoned.

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Javaman  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-08-10 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
 
22. Is it not also true that historically speaking, the marines also have the highest causality rate among all the other services?
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: primitives discuss passing the buck, U.S. Marines
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2010, 02:06:14 PM »
Each branch of service is the best of the field at its own forte, Marines and Army do not do exactly the same thing though both are (In their own ways) in the ground combat business.  Each branch does an at-par-but-not-exceptional to inferior job of imitating another when it is cast in a role outside its main strength.

I like the Marines I've known and of course we rag each other, but just as they'd rather other Marines had their back, for Army main-line missions I'd a lot rather the Army had my back.  There's great mutual respect under the jibes, but in the real military world you always, always have to remember 'They' are not 'Us' and 'They' bring a whole different set of strengths and weaknesses to the table (Or on board, as the case may be) failure to recognize that will end up in a lot of the wrong people getting killed.  
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 02:52:32 PM by DumbAss Tanker »
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Offline Carl

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Re: primitives discuss passing the buck, U.S. Marines
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2010, 02:15:51 PM »
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azurnoir  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-08-10 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
 
8. Being Commander in Chief means taking responsibility and then finding the problem rather than whining it's them not me or it was the guy before me's fault as the former pResident did but I can understand why you might try this talking point here first. but the tea just doesn't brew well

welcome to DU but this may not be the best water to "dip your bag" in


Yeah DUmbfuk....O has NEVER done that. :rotf: :rotf:

Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: primitives discuss passing the buck, U.S. Marines
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2010, 07:59:23 PM »
If the DUmmies keep ragging on the Marines, I'm gonna tear the jawbone out of one of them and slay 5,000.
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Offline IassaFTots

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Re: primitives discuss passing the buck, U.S. Marines
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2010, 09:25:19 PM »
If the DUmmies keep ragging on the Marines, I'm gonna tear the jawbone out of one of them and slay 5,000.

Well alrighty.   :cheersmate:

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