primitives upset about suspected terrorists not deserving full range of rights

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com//discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4202219#4202223

Oh my.

The primitives as usual don't disappoint:

NeoConsSuck  (1000+ posts)     Tue Dec-29-09 05:43 AM
Original message
 
Tom Ridge: Terror suspect doesn't deserve 'full range' of rights

(CNN) -- The man who allegedly lit an explosive on board a U.S.-bound international flight deserves none of the constitutional protections afforded American citizens, a former top Bush administration official said Monday.

Tom Ridge, who served as secretary of the Department of Homeland Security from 2003 to 2005, made the comments on CNN's "Larry King Live."

"I take a look at this individual who has been charged criminally, does that mean he gets his Miranda warnings? The only information we get is if he volunteers it?" Ridge said. "He's not a citizen of this country. He's a terrorist, and I don't think he deserves the full range of protections of our criminal justice system embodied in the Constitution of the United States."

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/12/29/lkl.tom.ridge.te...

Goldstein1984  (1000+ posts)        Tue Dec-29-09 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
 
3. If U.S. citizens want due process according to the laws of other nations, then we must grant due process under our own laws to non-residents within our borders.

That is, unless we're going to do more of the "enemy combatant" and "non-person" nonsense from the Bush/Cheney Error.

Either we are a nation of laws with a Bill of Rights, or we are not. (Granted, that's in dispute right now.)

Either we are what WE say we are, or we are what THEY claim we are.

Uh, what nations are those, with "due process of laws"?

I suspect the list is so short even the primitives can count them.

No Elephants (1000+ posts)      Tue Dec-29-09 06:11 AM
Response to Original message
 
4. Ridge, you shill. STFU. No killer DESERVES the protections of the Constitution, even if he or she is an American citizen. People don't enjoy being murdered by a "furriner" less than being killed by someone born in the U.S. or naturalized. Talk about a warped perspective!

Constitutional protections exist for the benefit of people who are accused, but innocent, whether by insanity, or false witness or whatever.

Who the hell is Ridge to say what people deserve, anyway? This shill had the country going from chartreuse to puce to taupe to fuschia during his tenure, as though a color code actually helped keep us safe. What a freakin' joke. And raised it to help Bush. (Says he didn't, but PUH-lease, compare the timing of the highest alerts other things going on in the news at the time.)

And since when did he become a Constitutional law expert, let alone a SCOTUS Justice?

From what I hear, Ridge may have more integrity than many Republicants, but that don't impress me much, given the average.

The demented primitive, a primitive to watch for the 2010 awards:

Demeter  (1000+ posts)        Tue Dec-29-09 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
 
5. Your 15 Minutes Are Over, Mr. Ridge. All That's Left Is Your Trial

and the sooner, the better.

FSogol  (1000+ posts)        Tue Dec-29-09 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
 
7. Tom Ridge needs a refresher course in Democracy & the US Constitution.

The primitives know as much about democracy and the Constitution, as the primitives know about the price of soybeans in Burma.

Moosepoop  (771 posts)      Tue Dec-29-09 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
 
8. He needs to be introduced to them first.

A Fat Che in the punch-bowl plops up to the surface:

WriteDown (1000+ posts)      Tue Dec-29-09 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
 
9. Technically he is right...

Considering he is not a citizen, he is not automatically entitled to US Constitution protections. Should he have been interrogated more before he lawyered up? That is a subject for vigorous debate.

A wannabe primitive attorney protests:

DefenseLawyer  (1000+ posts)        Tue Dec-29-09 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
 
15. "Technically" according to whom?

I have never heard anyone other than a Bush nutcase claim that a person arrested on American soil and charged with a federal crime wasn't subject to the full spectrum of punishments and protections afforded by our legal system. The thought of torturing someone obviously has you excited, but sorry, due process has no citizenship test.

WriteDown (1000+ posts)      Tue Dec-29-09 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #15
 
23. Try FDR.

bowens43 (1000+ posts)      Tue Dec-29-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #23
 
30. FDR has nothing to say about it. FDR did not make law.

WriteDown (1000+ posts)      Tue Dec-29-09 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #30
 
32. Tell that to the Japanese-Americans kept in internment camps...

Or the spies hung after their mail was opened.

bowens43 (1000+ posts)      Tue Dec-29-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #9

29. You are absolutely wrong.

The rights guaranteed by our Constitution are not dependent on US citizenship. He absolutely IS 'automatically entitled to US Constitution protections' if he is in US custody.

WriteDown (1000+ posts)      Tue Dec-29-09 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #29
 
31. Once again...

Try looking up FDR. We used to open people's mail and hang them if they were found to be spies.

Bette Noir (1000+ posts)     Tue Dec-29-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #31
 
46. And you want to keep doing that?

JustABozoOnThisBus  (1000+ posts)      Tue Dec-29-09 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #10

12. A missionary sneaking into North Korea will probably find his rights are somewhat limited.

But the inept Nigerian bomber should probably have the same rights as any Prisoner of War, and be humanely housed until the war is over. The confusing part of that is, which war? The war in Iraq? Afghanistan? The war between us and Al Qaeda? The holy war?

earthlite (49 posts)      Tue Dec-29-09 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
 
20. He's not a terror suspect

He's a prisoner of an illegal war who should be released with all the rest. We should be the ones on trial.

lazer47 (1000+ posts)      Tue Dec-29-09 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #20
 
22. Would you say the same thing if the bomb had worked?

and 300 people had been killed??

earthlite (49 posts)      Tue Dec-29-09 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #22
 
25. Yes I would.

We started this illegal war so we deserve to lose it. 300 dead barely compares to how many civilians the US have killed.

Robb  (1000+ posts)        Tue Dec-29-09 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #25
 
26. Wow.

I feel dumber just having read your post.

earthlite (49 posts)      Tue Dec-29-09 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #26
 
34. So are you saying that American civilian casualties are worse than others? How elitist and racist of you.

earthlite (49 posts)      Tue Dec-29-09 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #36
 
39. When we target civilians we can only expect they will do the same

Uh, they were doing the same long before we did a damned thing.

earthlite (49 posts)      Tue Dec-29-09 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #27

33. Depends what time frame you want to use.

I guess you could start with the support of Israel or the Shah of Iran several decades ago or any involvement in the Middle East we have had since.

WriteDown (1000+ posts)      Tue Dec-29-09 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #33
 
35. Support of Israel? Ah, I see....

Wouldn't you need to go back to the Ottoman Empire and then the Great Arab Uprising then? You really need to take this up with the League of Nations.

lazer47 (1000+ posts)      Tue Dec-29-09 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #25
 
37. Doesn't matter if it is Illegal now or not,, I for one am not going subscribe to the notion that these people can kill, maim, and destroy what ever they want, and I am just going to roll over and die,because somebody else started this insane war,, Illegal or not.

The skumbag primitive:

Ian David  (1000+ posts)        Tue Dec-29-09 09:36 AM
#14 TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009
Response to Original message

28. It doesn't matter if THEY deserve the full range of rights.   

JUSTICE DEMANDS they get the full range of rights.

You ALWAYS give them all their rights, whether THEY deserve them or not, because that's the only way to ensure that WE get OUR rights when WE deserve them.

[BadCat]

I really HOPE that DUmmy earthlite is a mole.
If not, our country is in very serious trouble.

[The Village Idiot]

Hey DUmmies!!

Applying our Constitution and Bill of Rights to foreigners in foreign lands is called "COLONIALISM"!!! ever hear of it??

[Karin]

Yeah, Earthlite is a little over the top.  Mole?  If so, I would think a mole would be slightly more subtle. 

Ian David, as usual, does not disappoint.  Certainly in the top tier of the dumbest creatures on the interwebz.  Well, since Ian thinks this and believes that "brown people can do no wrong," I wish he would emulate his moonbat brothers who hiked into Iran and are now in a peck of trouble.  Oh how I wish it. 

[The Village Idiot]

Yeah, Earthlite is a little over the top.  Mole?  If so, I would think a mole would be slightly more subtle. 

Ian David, as usual, does not disappoint.  Certainly in the top tier of the dumbest creatures on the interwebz.  Well, since Ian thinks this and believes that "brown people can do no wrong," I wish he would emulate his moonbat brothers who hiked into Iran and are now in a peck of trouble.  Oh how I wish it. 

China executed a British citizen for trafficking heroin, anything about it at DU? I am sure they are all outraged.

[AllosaursRus]

Threads like this make me want to nuke wherever skins hides his servers! This is the most treasonous BS I have ever read! These cowards need to be weeded out of our civilized society. Terrorists and DUmmies alike! What sort of thought process can you have to defend some extremists that want nothing more than the destruction of our country? I wonder how these asshats would feel if they were on the frikkin' plane? I can only hope if that if there are indeed 25 more suicide bombers on their way, that these asshats are on the boarding list!

[USA4ME]

Robb
 
26. Wow.

I feel dumber just having read your post.

Except for the fact that you agree with him, dingbat.  Whether you'll admit it or not is another matter.

---------

On the issue at hand, is it any surprise that with Dear Leader in office that militant Islamists are feeling more emboldened to attack USA citizens?  They know the same thing we do, this is, he's weak and won't do what it takes to stop them.  He'll take steps to inconvenience USA citizens, though.  It's like walking past someone who kicks you in the shins everyday, so you get shin guards, and then he starts hitting you in the arm.

We've noted it being reported that the US is being more active in Pakistan and Yemen and other places as of late.  But my guess would be that during the Bush years, we were just as active, if not more so.  It's just under Dear Leader, he feels the need to broadcast it in order to make it look like he's tough.  Think about it; if you're the enemy you know when the force you've been fighting against suddenly has a wimpy leader.  Al-Qaeda has to have noticed that in the last year the fierceness of our attacks has diminished, and of course they're going to act on that.

.

[AllosaursRus]

To say nothing about "dear leaders" rules of engagement! As far as I'm concerned, he's tied their hands! This won't do anything more than get our soldiers killed. In  my book, that's TREASON!

[crockspot]

I'd like to see Ian David stand up and DEMAND HIS RIGHTS in some third world piss tube.

[AllosaursRus]

I'd like to see Ian David stand up and DEMAND HIS RIGHTS in some third world piss tube.

Would never happen. He'd be dead already!

[Duke Nukum]

Iran is detaining three American hikers for accidentally crossing into their borders so whatever rights IanDB is conferring on terrorists isn't working.

[AllosaursRus]

Iran is detaining three American hikers for accidentally crossing into their borders so whatever rights IanDB is conferring on terrorists isn't working.

Amazing we hear more about the muzzie trying to bring down an airline than we do about our own citizens being held prisoner in Iran, ain't it?

ETA:

Let me have 'em, I'll waterboard the prick with horse piss!

[BlueStateSaint]

Amazing we hear more about the muzzie trying to bring down an airline than we do about our own citizens being held prisoner in Iran, ain't it?

ETA:

Let me have 'em, I'll waterboard the prick with horse piss!

You're letting your emotions get the best of you, aren't you?  You gotta think!

Waterboard the WOS with pig piss . . .

[Carl]

Threads like this make me want to nuke wherever skins hides his servers! This is the most treasonous BS I have ever read! These cowards need to be weeded out of our civilized society. Terrorists and DUmmies alike! What sort of thought process can you have to defend some extremists that want nothing more than the destruction of our country? I wonder how these asshats would feel if they were on the frikkin' plane? I can only hope if that if there are indeed 25 more suicide bombers on their way, that these asshats are on the boarding list!

They may have different goals (an islamist word..a socialist one) but they have the same enemy in the way,the USA.

Libs think that if the islamists are fighting Capitalism then to a point they are justified and they think that means as socialists they would be left alone.
Like all the delusions on the left the reality of the world is against them but they have become experts at blocking that out of their "minds".

[jukin]

Let us just say that if there is another attempt that due to pure luck does not work it shall be 100% the fault of the Obumbler and leftist policies. Personally, I believe that if this most recent event had been successful the public would have been told that it was a plane malfunction. SO I fully expect if the next one is successful the Obama administration will trot out that excuse.  I know I'm right look at the curtain of secrecy that went up around the Fort Hood incident.

It is not that liberals know nothing, it is that what they know is so wrong.

[Chump]

Their premises:

1.  The rights guaranteed and protected by the Constitution are not afforded solely by American citizenship.
2.  The rights guaranteed and protected by the Constitution are afforded by physical location within the borders of the United States.

Based on these premises, their conclusion ends up being:

We must afford the rights guaranteed by the Constitution to anyone located within our borders, regardless of citizenship, so that when American citizens travel outside the United States (and apparently shed their Consitutional rights in doing so) other countries will continue to afford us our Constitutional rights, which are a function of being physically located within the United States.

I'd laugh if it weren't this sort of thinking guiding American policy right now.  Instead, I'm just sickened.

[AllosaursRus]

You're letting your emotions get the best of you, aren't you?  You gotta think!

Waterboard the WOS with pig piss . . .

Sorry, I don't have any pigs. I do however have 9 horses 5 mules and a mammoth Jack. So you see horse piss is much easier for me to come up with. I could always shove bacon in their mouths first!! Would that work?

[BlueStateSaint]

Sorry, I don't have any pigs. I do however have 9 horses 5 mules and a mammoth Jack. So you see horse piss is much easier for me to come up with. I could always shove bacon in their mouths first!! Would that work?

Ordinarly, I'd say "yes, IMO."

But, bacon makes everything better . . . and it would be a waste to shove it in their throats.  Is there any way to get pig testicles?