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Author Topic: Senior Dem: Kill the Senate health reform bill and start over  (Read 3758 times)

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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Senior Dem: Kill the Senate health reform bill and start over
« on: December 24, 2009, 06:11:28 AM »
I love it when they start shooting at each other . . .

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Senior Dem: Kill the Senate health reform bill and start over

By Michael O'Brien - 12/23/09 02:12 PM ET
The Senate's healthcare bill is fatally flawed, a senior Democrat atop a powerful committee said on Wednesday.



Rep. Louise Slaughter (D-N.Y.), the chairwoman of the House Rules Committee and co-chairwoman of the Congressional Pro-Choice Caucus, said that the Senate's bill is so flawed that it's unlikely to be resolved in conference with the bill to have passed the House.

"The Senate health care bill is not worthy of the historic vote that the House took a month ago," Slaughter wrote in an opinion piece for CNN's website.

Slaughter argued that while the House bill is far from perfect, the Senate bill's exclusion of a public option, along with abortion funding restrictions and other measures, make the bill undeserving of a vote.

Specifically, Slaughter said, the Senate bill would charge seniors higher premiums, would fail to nix health insurers' antitrust exemption and would not go far enough in extending coverage to people in the U.S.

Whether this actually leads to the death of this monstrous cluster **** is to be seen.  Ann Coulter, speaking yesterday on Sean Hannity's show to Mark Simone (who was guest hosting), said that she thinks it's DOA.  She did say that she could be wrong.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/73493-senior-dem-kill-the-healthcare-bill-and-start-over
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Offline Oceander

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Re: Senior Dem: Kill the Senate health reform bill and start over
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2009, 06:15:50 AM »
My God, another idiot from the Soviet Socialist Republic of New York.  Another one to fire in 2012.
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Offline Carl

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Re: Senior Dem: Kill the Senate health reform bill and start over
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2009, 06:20:55 AM »
I am going out on a limb admitting that I am not well versed on the process but reconciliation was  declared viable for the bill as a whole.
This was dubious at best since it is my understanding that should only apply to strict budgetary and tax issues.
My great fear is that once this monstrosity is codified that will apply to every part of it and then some.

Still a problem with illegals in emergency rooms...now amnesty is proposed to "get them on the tax rolls" (like that is realistic) but suddenly it only requires a simple majority vote.
All of what Nelson sold out for can be reworded and repackaged somehow as a tax and budget issue and will be out of reach of filibuster.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 06:24:38 AM by Carl »
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Offline Oceander

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Re: Senior Dem: Kill the Senate health reform bill and start over
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2009, 06:25:14 AM »
Quote from: Carl on December 24, 2009, 06:20:55 AM
I am going out on a limb admitting that I am not well versed on the process but reconciliation was  declared viable for the bill as a whole.
This was dubious at best since it is my understanding that should only apply to strict budgetary and tax issues.
My great fear is that once this monstrosity is codified that will apply to every part of it and then some.

Still a problem with illegals in emergency rooms...now amnesty is proposed to "get them on the tax roles" (like that is realistic) but suddenly it only requires a simple majority vote.
All of what Nelson sold out for can be reworded and repackaged somehow as a tax and budget issue and will be out of reach of filibuster.

My understanding of reconciliation - probably weaker than yours - is that the real danger to the Democrats is that, because reconciliation is supposed to be reserved solely for spending bills, the House Parliamentarian has the authority to strip out any provisions that don't deal with that topic, which in the eyes of many would mean stripping most of the Democrats' goodies out.
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Offline Carl

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Re: Senior Dem: Kill the Senate health reform bill and start over
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2009, 06:34:22 AM »
Quote from: Oceander on December 24, 2009, 06:25:14 AM
My understanding of reconciliation - probably weaker than yours - is that the real danger to the Democrats is that, because reconciliation is supposed to be reserved solely for spending bills, the House Parliamentarian has the authority to strip out any provisions that don't deal with that topic, which in the eyes of many would mean stripping most of the Democrats' goodies out.

I don`t know and will admit that so am a bit nervous about saying something here that is false but just for arguments sake for a minute.

Funding for abortion is banned in the final bill that is signed so I presume as it relates to spending measures (they will be continual as we all know the price tag is likely 10-25 % of actual costs) they can`t undo that specifically.
What about "reproductive health" is that in the bill with the disclaimer that abortion can never apply?
No idea the answer so just using that as an example could a rewording of the issue sneak in that way?

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Offline Karin

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Re: Senior Dem: Kill the Senate health reform bill and start over
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2009, 07:21:08 AM »
That whole issue of reconciliation is so complicated, with both sides posturing and claiming to be right, that I just don't know any more.  I'm a little numb.

States that didn't get bribes, are already declaring lawsuits.  As they should. 
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Senior Dem: Kill the Senate health reform bill and start over
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2009, 08:00:48 AM »
Technically you guys are right about the limits on reconciliation.  As actually applied, if one party is in control of both houses, it's as wide open as Skagway in the Yukon gold rush for the party in the driver's seat, they can not only pick and choose from either bill, they have in the past added completely new and weird shit that neither the HR or SB contained originally.  The more different the bills are, the more it turns into a total porkfest for the conference delegates.
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Offline Oceander

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Re: Senior Dem: Kill the Senate health reform bill and start over
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2009, 08:02:15 AM »
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on December 24, 2009, 08:00:48 AM
Technically you guys are right about the limits on reconciliation.  As actually applied, if one party is in control of both houses, it's as wide open as Skagway in the Yukon gold rush for the party in the driver's seat, they can not only pick and choose from either bill, they have in the past added completely new and weird shit that neither the HR or SB contained originally.  The more different the bills are, the more it turns into a total porkfest for the conference delegates.

Does that work to our benefit, or against us?
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Senior Dem: Kill the Senate health reform bill and start over
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2009, 08:41:42 AM »
Quote from: Oceander on December 24, 2009, 08:02:15 AM
Does that work to our benefit, or against us?

When do any shady congressional dealings work for us?
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Offline Oceander

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Re: Senior Dem: Kill the Senate health reform bill and start over
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2009, 08:43:52 AM »
Quote from: thundley4 on December 24, 2009, 08:41:42 AM
When do any shady congressional dealings work for us?

Right now, the uglier and dirtier and more blatantly corrupt this bill gets, and the longer we have to rub the publics' collective noses in that ugliness, dirt, and corruption, the better.  This isn't about crafting good legislation, this is warfare and defense of the United States of America from enemies within.
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Offline Baruch Menachem

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Re: Senior Dem: Kill the Senate health reform bill and start over
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2009, 01:30:23 PM »
Both houses have to pass the conference report.  Right now it looks as if the senate version is dead in the house, and the house version is dead in the senate.  They loose 2 votes in the house, it dies.  they loose one vote in the senate, it won't get voted on.
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Offline Oceander

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Re: Senior Dem: Kill the Senate health reform bill and start over
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2009, 01:37:59 PM »
Quote from: Baruch Menachem on December 24, 2009, 01:30:23 PM
Both houses have to pass the conference report.  Right now it looks as if the senate version is dead in the house, and the house version is dead in the senate.  They loose 2 votes in the house, it dies.  they loose one vote in the senate, it won't get voted on.

Which more or less tells us what our marching orders are for the nonce.
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Senior Dem: Kill the Senate health reform bill and start over
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2009, 05:31:02 PM »
One thing that we can be sure of with the Demonrats, there will be nothing but under the table and back room discussions going on.  All that we will hear about the negotiations will come from leaks, and that will be from the side that isn't getting their way.
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Offline bkg

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Re: Senior Dem: Kill the Senate health reform bill and start over
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2009, 05:35:31 PM »
news report this afternoon said that many house dems are ready to sign onto the Senate bill...

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Offline Carl

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Re: Senior Dem: Kill the Senate health reform bill and start over
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2009, 05:39:42 PM »
Quote from: bkg on December 24, 2009, 05:35:31 PM
news report this afternoon said that many house dems are ready to sign onto the Senate bill...



The reason though?
Still believe it is to get it passed and surrounded with a sense of "legitimacy" so they can then begin changing it behind the scenes away from public scrutiny.
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Offline bkg

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Re: Senior Dem: Kill the Senate health reform bill and start over
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2009, 05:42:52 PM »
Quote from: Carl on December 24, 2009, 05:39:42 PM
The reason though?
Still believe it is to get it passed and surrounded with a sense of "legitimacy" so they can then begin changing it behind the scenes away from public scrutiny.


to pass something fast... that was about all that was mentioned.
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Senior Dem: Kill the Senate health reform bill and start over
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2009, 05:58:37 PM »
Quote from: bkg on December 24, 2009, 05:42:52 PM
to pass something fast... that was about all that was mentioned.

They want it passed before Lord Zero's Statist State of Socialist Union speech.
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Offline Baruch Menachem

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Re: Senior Dem: Kill the Senate health reform bill and start over
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2009, 09:21:53 PM »
I think they could get 190 to vote yes on anything.   It is the other 28 that have too high a price that makes this at all interesting.   Everything happens at the margin, and it is the marginal votes that make this possible.

Any every angry constituent who calls in and says "Kill this turkey" makes the bill that more marginal.
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