sparkling husband primitive alleges to know the inscrutable Oriental mind

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.org/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7155352

Oh my.

The sparkling husband primitive:

Stinky The Clown  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 01:48 PM
NOMINEE FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009
Original message
 
China called. They want their pandas back.

Here's the story at face value:

Young panda at Washington Zoo heads to China: report

WASHINGTON — One of the biggest stars at the National Zoo in the US capital Washington DC, a US-born giant panda named Tai Shan, will soon be sent to China, the Washington Post reported Friday.

The panda was born in July 2005 to two pandas on loan from China, and Tai Shan's move is part of an agreement with Beijing, according to the Post. Millions of people flocked to the zoo to see the baby panda when he went on display in December 2005. Over the years, fans followed Tai Shan's growth on a "panda cam" on the zoo's website. Washington DC Mayor Adrian Fenty once called Tai Shan the city's most important citizen, and the zoo recently announced that Tai Shan will even appear on a postage stamp.

Tai Shan's parents, a 10-year-old female named Mei Xiang and an 11-year-old male named Tian Tian, are at the National Zoo under loan agreement and as part of a research, conservation and breeding program.

The two are scheduled to go back to China in 2010, according to the Post.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jGdi...

Yes, this is all part of a deal. But ...... do you all recall that the Pandas came here during the Nixon years as a reward by China for having opened a dialog between them and us. It was a sign of appreciation.

Now fast forward to today. China owns our ass. This has been going on for many years. Then Clinton gave them MFN status. Then WalMart became their local agent.

Fast forward even more. The Chinese president, in his most recent meeting with a US president, asked the US president how much health care was going to cost.

Isn't that an odd question?

Not if it was intended to send a message.

I see this enforcement of the "loan" of the pandas as another step on that path of subtle but intentional posturing of China against the US. Be ready for more demands to which we will ahve little choice but to acquiesce.

Yup ...... they really do own us right now.

There will be lots of talk about this in the next few days. Much of it will be somehow connected with Obama's recent trip to China, and much of that will be opportunistic negativity. That is not my intent here. I see this as a warning sign. The only connection to Obama is peripheral ... he just happens to be president. This issue has transcended US administrations and will continue to do so. So please leave the knee jerk defense of him at home if you choose to discuss something in this thread. Okay?

SemiCharmedQuark  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
 
1. I guess I'm not seeing what the big deal is. Zoos often make loan agreements, especially with endangered animals. And China has always been particularly protective of its pandas.

SemiCharmedQuark  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
 
2. I'd also like to point out that this particular policy goes back to the 1990s

Pairs of Pandas are loaned out for periods of 10 years, but the pandas and their offspring are still property of China.

I don't see what this has to do with politics full stop.

FSogol  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
 
3. True, but there must be some way the RW can use this to bash Obama.

SemiCharmedQuark  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
 
5. Yeah but...they'll bash him for anything. If we posted on everything they *could* bash him on, we could fill up the first 10 pages of the forum in 10 minutes.

Stinky The Clown  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 02:08 PM
NOMINEE FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009
Response to Reply #5
 
9. You are TOTALLY missing the point

This has virtually ***NOTHING*** to do with Obama .... yet there you go ..... defending him.

It is NOT about him.

SemiCharmedQuark  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
 
11. I'm not defending Obama...or Bush...or Clinton. I don't see what a zoo loan program has to do with politics at all.

Stinky The Clown  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 02:11 PM
NOMINEE FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009
Response to Reply #11
 
12. Okaynevermind .......

Stinky The Clown  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 02:07 PM
NOMINEE FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009
Response to Reply #1
 
7. Here's the germ ...... they asked how much our health care would cost.

They own us and they want to control us. Right now, it is subtle. But this is like a bully goading a mark.

Yes, the deal was in place. It has been extended. Now they're calling their loan. Is that not a sufficiently clear and obvious metaphor for a larger issue we face? Like our debt? Like our trade balance?

As I said, this is subtle and not on anyone's radar.

Yet.

SemiCharmedQuark  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
 
13. They aren't "calling in" their loan. The loan period is up.

Borrowing a book from a library and returning it on the due date doesn't mean that the library has "called in its loan".

I understand your larger point, but I fail to see how it relates to the zoo loan.

Stinky The Clown  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 02:17 PM
NOMINEE FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009
Response to Reply #13
 
15. The panda loan has been renewed pretty liberally since it started in 1976 (or thereabouts).

Now they're taking a harder line. They have no need to take the pandas back. They're doing it because they can ... and as a message.

A message apparently lost on you. But all that means is you're in the majority to whom this will not be seen (or at least discussed) for what it is.

SemiCharmedQuark  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #15

23. When they say they are dumping the dollar as reserve currency, that sends a message.

They don't need to send cryptic messages in the form of panda bears. Especially considering they have 13 other bears here in the U.S. and have announced they plan to continue the breeding program.

Stinky The Clown  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 02:41 PM
NOMINEE FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009
Response to Reply #23

28. Is there a point to your arguing?

imdjh  (1000+ posts)      Fri Dec-04-09 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
 
4. If I were China , or any other creditor, I would be more concerned about the US declaring bankruptcy

.... than getting pushy. They own us? In what respect? If we owe them so much money that their economy will collapse if we don't pay, then who really owns whom? 

FarCenter (1000+ posts)      Fri Dec-04-09 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
 
6. These aren't the original 1972 pandas from China

Hsing-Hsing died in 1999. Don't know about Ling-Ling.

Stinky The Clown  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 02:09 PM
NOMINEE FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009
Response to Reply #6
 
10. You're right. This "loan" has been renewed a number of times over the years.

When Hsing Hsing died, they gladly sent a replacement.

But now .... they're calling their loan.

FarCenter (1000+ posts)      Fri Dec-04-09 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
 
14. Ling-Ling died in '92

After Hsing-Hsing died, the two we now have on 10 year loan were sent. The loan might be extended, since they have done so in the past.

SemiCharmedQuark  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
 
18. The loan has already been extended twice in the last 2 years.

Stinky The Clown  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 02:20 PM
NOMINEE FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009
Response to Reply #14
 
19. It has been liberally extended in the past .....

.... and if it is now, then I may well be way off base. But I'm thinking the pandas will be going and that it is an intentional act to send a far, far, far larger message to us.

And actually, even if they stay, the message has already been sent. It all depends on how widely known to our citizenry they think they need to make the message

TZ  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
 
20. See my post below

It might be hard to believe but Chinese scientists might actually be more knowledgeable about Chinese wildlife than we are! Your post is American centric AND more than a bit xenophobic.

Jamastiene  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
 
8. That is exactly what China is doing. 

They will "collect" on all of their "loans" to us eventually. It is the silent red takeover. 

Deja Q  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
 
16. Lobbyists helped engender today's conditions. Let them pay for it.

TZ  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
 
17. Umm the Zoo is fulfilling their agreement with China

Plus Tai Shan has been here for TWO years longer than agreed on . And to be honest China is MUCH better at breeding captive Pandas than we are. So there are scientific reasons for this. Politics has little to do with this.

SemiCharmedQuark  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
 
22. China wants the baby panda for breeding purposes. 

As far as I know, at this point they are only taking the young one. The adults are still on loan until December of next year.

TZ  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
 
25. Yep. They need to keep the gene pool up

This is a scientific decision, no more.

emilyg  (1000+ posts)      Fri Dec-04-09 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
 
21. Next they will call and want their money.

Stinky The Clown  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 02:40 PM

NOMINEE FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009

Response to Reply #26
 
27. That was unnecessary

I'm not implying any conspiracy at all. I'm simply saying it is diplomatic and political messaging of a type that is in plain sight but often missed completely or misunderstood.

And our crack press corps will play the story as written.

SemiCharmedQuark  (1000+ posts)        Fri Dec-04-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #27
 
30. And other people are saying that it's not a secret message. It's just a zoo loan program.

Yet you go on to argue that you're right and we simpletons just don't get it.

I dunno.  After thinking about it, maybe the sparkling husband primitive is on to something here; maybe the Red Chinese are sending us one of those enigmatic Oriental messages.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Stinky The Clown  (1000+ posts)       
Fri Dec-04-09 02:07 PM
NOMINEE FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009
Response to Reply #1
 
7. Here's the germ ...... they asked how much our health care would cost.

They own us and they want to control us. Right now, it is subtle. But this is like a bully goading a mark.

WTF does this have to do with health care?  ****ing idiot.

[JohnnyReb]

OH NO!!!!!!. Can't you see it? Without panda's we're doomed.

[franksolich]

WTF does this have to do with health care?  ****ing idiot.

Now, may God forgive me for sticking up for the sparkling husband primitive, but one must.

In defense of the sparkling husband primitive, he's suggesting that the Red Chinese are getting, uh, nervous about our financial stability, and are going to start demanding things they've given us--including money for Treasury bonds to finance the 0bamadeficit--back.

The Red Chinese can be understated like that, but if they need to get the message across, as time goes on, they're less and less subtle.

I think the sparkling husband primitive is on to something here.

[BlueStateSaint]

Now, may God forgive me for sticking up for the sparkling husband primitive, but one must.

In defense of the sparkling husband primitive, he's suggesting that the Red Chinese are getting, uh, nervous about our financial stability, and are going to start demanding things they've given us--including money for Treasury bonds to finance the 0bamadeficit--back.

The Red Chinese can be understated like that, but if they need to get the message across, as time goes on, they're less and less subtle.

I think the sparkling husband primitive is on to something here.

I hate to agree with that POS, but I agree with you.  (It's a helluva lot more palatable when I agree with you as opposed to the eunuch.)

[mamacags]

Who gives a rat's ass about stupid pandas anyway?  Wonder what they taste like slowly BBQed on a spit?

[Randy]

I'm wondering when China got a President?

[GOBUCKS]

Panda zoo people will cease being commie suckups only when they have the balls to name one of their stupid pandas "Sam". This "Wee Wee", "Ping Pong", "Ling Ling" business makes me sick.

[Duke Nukum]

Obviously this is yet another plot by the fiendish Dr. Fu Manchu to get the rest of the Oriental world to rally behind him in his bid to conquer the West.  First he attempted to secure the death mask and sword of Genghis Kahn  but John Kerry beat him to it back in 2004.  I believe this plot is inspired by Ben Stiller's character in Tropic Thunder.

[Duke Nukum]

I kind of remember when this panda was born and there were news stories then that it would go back to China so, quite honestly, Cat Box Boy is meowing at the moon on this one.

[mamacags]

If Butters didn't keep shooting people in the dick Cartman could have saved us all a bunch of misery with China!

[SilverOrchid]

Who gives a rat's ass about stupid pandas anyway?  Wonder what they taste like slowly BBQed on a spit?

[GOBUCKS]

Who gives a rat's ass about stupid pandas anyway?  Wonder what they taste like slowly BBQed on a spit?

I'm sure there are lots and lots of Chinamen who can answer that question.

[dandi]

"Gimme my dough, plus the vig, or the panda gets it, see?"

[vesta111]

Here is a totally different slant on things.

I met a couple on DC that were from England and had been just about every where in the world. Some how we got on the subject of the Panda and both had visited a Panda Preserve in China.

They both felt that there was something a bit fishie about the place as all the secure trails had been shut down to visitors.  They never saw one living Panda.

Their feelings were that China has so miss handled the preserve that most likely there were very few left. 

Putting 2 and 2 together I would guess if this couple are correct and the Chinese found out about the losses due to say negligence, there would be riots, suicides and firings squads.

It is possible that the Chinese are recalling breeding pairs on loan to other country's in hopes of boosting a very frail population of Pandas before the country's realises how badly they screwed up.

Naturally this may not be the only game in town, but it was 3 years ago when I met these people and as I look back on the pictures we took of these amazing beasts, so mild looking but darn right vicious as adults, I can understand why China wants them back.

It is sad as their home in DC is heaven on earth for them.  Their enclosure is state of the art, there is nothing they lack.  To return these Pandas to China and a life of having to fight each other for food or mates, little shelter from the weather and no one minding their health. this will cause stress, they won't be around much longer either.

Just another side of the coin to think about.





 

[DumbAss Tanker]

Coming next Fall on Fox Reality:  PANDA REPO!

 

[Ralph Wiggum]

Coming next Fall on Fox Reality:  PANDA REPO!