primitives discuss dirty kids

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x77749

HuckleB  (1000+ posts)      Wed Nov-25-09 09:58 PM
Original message
 
Is dirt good for kids? (Study)
 
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2009/11November/Pages/Is-dirt-go...

Excerpt from the start of the piece.

“Children should be allowed to play in the dirt because being too clean can impair the skin’s ability to heal itself,” The Daily Telegraph reported. It said scientists have found that common bacteria on the skin’s surface can “dampen down overactive immune responses, which can lead to rashes or cause cuts and bruises to become swollen and painful”.

This news report is based on research in human skin cells and mice. Researchers found that some non-harmful bacteria that live on the skin play an important role in regulating inflammation. These intriguing findings improve our understanding of the complex reactions that occur when cells are infected or injured.

While the newspaper suggests that the findings are directly relevant to children’s health, this was not investigated by the researchers, though they did suggest their results may have some application in the management of inflammatory skin disorders. At this early stage, however, this is speculation and much more research is needed.

-----------------------------------------------

And here's a link to more general press coverage:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6630394/Ch...

Roll, roll, roll in the dirt all the live long day. (Hey, nothing wrong with mixing up a couple of ditties.)

tekisui  (1000+ posts)        Wed Nov-25-09 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
 
1. The saying in my neighborhood was 'God made dirt and dirt won't hurt'.

I regularly renewed my bacteria from dirt, still do in fact.

kestrel91316  (1000+ posts)        Wed Nov-25-09 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
 
2. I keep saying bacteria are our friends, and people on DU keep laughing at me and saying how wrong I am.........

paulsby  (1000+ posts)      Wed Nov-25-09 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
 
9. you are of course right

during most of our evolutionary history, we got dirty, played in the dirt and lived with it surrounding us.

it's just common sense.

similar studies show that kids who grow up around farm animals, and pigs in specific, also get immune system benefits.givign

another example of common sense: in our state of nature, we occasionally bled.

now research has shown that giving a little blood periodically is healthy, especially for men (women naturally lose some blood every month). it helps, among other things, to lower the levels of heavy metals in the blood.

kids at play get occasional bumps and scrapes but in our sanitized society, those that don't play sports or play can go years without bleeding

Doremus  (1000+ posts)      Wed Nov-25-09 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
 
3. Friends of ours used to insist their kids were scrupulously clean ALL THE TIME.

No playing in the dirt. No sitting on the sand at the beach.

Take numerous showers daily. Even their pediatrician told their mother to stop washing them so much because their skin was dried out and raw. Mother couldn't stop (OCD I think).

They suffered from allergies and other ailments much more than normal.

HuckleB  (1000+ posts)      Wed Nov-25-09 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
 
6. Oh man. They would not have approved of us.

Our three-year-old has been backpacking all over the western US since he was six months old. Dirt is just the reality for him.

tridim  (1000+ posts)        Wed Nov-25-09 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
 
4. I've also heard that nose picking and eating during childhood is beneficial.

There has to be some evolutionary reason that children eat their boogers.

HuckleB  (1000+ posts)      Wed Nov-25-09 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
 
5. I suspect that we all swallow a good deal of our boogers, at least while we sleep.

dflprincess  (1000+ posts)        Wed Nov-25-09 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
 
7. Years ago "Nova" did a program about polio

It actually began to get more serious as hygene improved. The polio germ lives in dirt and before running water in homes became common people were exposed to the germ more often and would often have very mild cases of polio that were diagnosed as something else but they did develop immunity.

FirstLight  (1000+ posts)        Wed Nov-25-09 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
 
8. My sister is a gremaphobe

you could eat off the bathroom floors...all the time, I swear.

(how she keeps a WHITE bathroom THAT clean is beyond me...)

...abut her family is ALWAYS sick, too.... is over-cleanliness to blame?

I may not be a grunge, but I ain;t a neat freak either. And my kids are always dirty!

And we have only needed antibiotics a couple times in the past few years, whereas my sis's kids seem to be on something all the time, whether for allergies or sniffles or SOMETHING.

What's even wierder?

My family has an autoimmune disorder, and my sister and I both have it. I seem to be able to keep my flares under better control than her as well. But if you also look at our different eating habits as well as the clean factor, it could be either, or both.

Hehe, but I have another theory too... your first kid, you are all paranoid and wipe them constantly "oh NO, precious got dirty.", by the time you have your third, you say: "let them eat worms!"

notadmblnd  (1000+ posts)        Wed Nov-25-09 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
 
10. I let mine eat worms

he is my first and only born. He wanted to know what they tasted like, so I told him to try it.

The defrocked warped primitive:

Warpy  (1000+ posts)        Wed Nov-25-09 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
 
11. We were designed to live in dirt

It's only noxious in places like operating rooms. You want to keep those as free of bacteria of all types as possible.

Expecting to raise our children without ever allowing them to play in dirt and eat some of it is not just unrealistic, it's probably dangerous.

The hypochondrial primitive, who's had every disease and ailment known in the history of mankind, and some not named yet:

mopinko  (1000+ posts)        Wed Nov-25-09 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
 
12. my father always said- sterilize, sterilize, sterilize, and in the meantime the kid is in the living room, eating out of the potted plant.

ahead of his time in many ways, he was.

there are theories about this related to autoimmune diseases. chron's disease, they say, may be linked to clean water. the whole thing makes a lot of sense to me.

I think the primitives are just looking for an excuse to not do laundry or change diapers or clean up their kids, the little nuisances.

[VivisMom]

There is a fine line between letting a kid be a kid and play in dirt, and having a dirty kid.


Although Frank, I suspect you're right about the primitives not wanting to clean up after said child-laundry and baths are just wasting water, you know. 

Have a good holiday, sir!

[diesel driver]

I grew up on a farm.  It was nothing for me to be barefooted in the cow lot, sliding thru the s***, er, manure....

I have yet to be in the hospital for any disease, although I have had my share of stitches....    

[Flame]

My theory was always "Hey, kids are washable"...let 'em get dirty when they play, then hose em off when they come inside.

[JohnnyReb]

Liberal parent, "Oh. My child isn't dirty...we're strengthening his immune system.....we've been working on it now for about 6 months ....another 26 years ought to just about do it."

[thundley4]

I tend to agree with the study.  I think early exposure to germs would help to strengthen the immune system. Sometime during the 80's , parents got overprotective about their kids and playing outside, not long afterwards, it seems there has been an increase in asthma related illnesses in kids.

[JohnnyReb]

I tend to agree with the study.  I think early exposure to germs would help to strengthen the immune system. Sometime during the 80's , parents got overprotective about their kids and playing outside, not long afterwards, it seems there has been an increase in asthma related illnesses in kids.

I agree....I drank milk from our milk cow, milked the cow, rode the cow, etc..
I took the smallpox vaccination 3 times before it took and then only got a small white dot on my arm. Others got terrible scars from them.

[longview]

Kind of nice to see a study that supports what most of us believed all along anyway. 

[zeitgeist]

I agree....I drank milk from our milk cow, milked the cow, rode the cow, etc..
I took the smallpox vaccination 3 times before it took and then only got a small white dot on my arm. Others got terrible scars from them.

Straight from the cow, an utter delight.  I was never a big fan of raw milk just strained through cheese cloth but then when it was all there was you drank it but I did draw the line at warm raw milk.

One grandmother use to say "you have to eat a peck of dirt before you die."  The other would retort, "doesn't have to be at one setting."  They had vastly different ideas of cleanliness but both were excellent cooks.

[ColonialMarine0431]

I tend to agree with the study.  I think early exposure to germs would help to strengthen the immune system. Sometime during the 80's , parents got overprotective about their kids and playing outside, not long afterwards, it seems there has been an increase in asthma related illnesses in kids.

Agreed. IMHO this is why we have so manly sickly people running around. At the first sneeze, Junior's OCD mommy rushes him to see a Dr., who proceeds to pump him full of anti-biotics. It's best to let a cold or mild flu run it's course. It strengthens the immune system. It's called common sense, something humans practised for eons, until Dr's and pharmaceutical companies starting pushing all sorts of non-essential drugs on us. This is one of my pet peeves: pharmaceutical companies that advertise all sorts of drugs on TV and in print as though they were hawking dish detergent. It's a scam. And usually the side effects are worse than the "ilness".

[BadCat]

Agreed. IMHO this is why we have so manly sickly people running around. At the first sneeze, Junior's OCD mommy rushes him to see a Dr., who proceeds to pump him full of anti-biotics. It's best to let a cold or mild flu run it's course. It strengthens the immune system. It's called common sense, something humans practised for eons, until Dr's and pharmaceutical companies starting pushing all sorts of non-essential drugs on us. This is one of my pet peeves: pharmaceutical companies that advertise all sorts of drugs on TV and in print as though they were hawking dish detergent. It's a scam. And usually the side effects are worse than the "ilness".

The latest one that gets me is that stuff that Brooke Shields is advertising that grows eyelashes.  It has a "possible side effect" of "permanent brown pigmentation of the iris".  WHAT THE HELL is in that stuff (that is applied topically to the eyelid) that can do that??

[Texacon]

This is also my concern with the clean water act.  Not only does it cost a fortune to clean the water to the gov'ts standards but we are removing a LOT of things that could/would/were beneficial to us.

You should see some of the testing we have to do of our water and what it is for.  Sad.  Thank you liberals!

KC

[Celtic Rose]

I think it is common sense to let kids get dirty, then clean them, then let them get dirty again.  I lived outside as a little girl.  I made mud pies, I made "soup" with weeds and leaves, and needed a bath just about every night.  I even collected snails in an old bird cage. 

Triclosan, which is in a lot of antibacterial soaps, has been shown to do much more harm than it helps.  Unlike old disinfectants, like alcohol, bleach, or hydrogen peroxide, it creates a resistance in whatever bacteria it doesn't kill and it damages water systems when it flows into them.  Unfortunately, people see "antibacterial soap" and assume it will work better than plain soap and ignore all facts to the contrary.  I'm pretty sure that studies have shown that using regular soap and washing your hands well under running warm water for at least 30 seconds, if not longer, is at least as effective as using antibacterial soap, without any bad side effects.

[Texacon]

I think it is common sense to let kids get dirty, then clean them, then let them get dirty again.  I lived outside as a little girl.  I made mud pies, I made "soup" with weeds and leaves, and needed a bath just about every night.  I even collected snails in an old bird cage. 

Triclosan, which is in a lot of antibacterial soaps, has been shown to do much more harm than it helps.  Unlike old disinfectants, like alcohol, bleach, or hydrogen peroxide, it creates a resistance in whatever bacteria it doesn't kill and it damages water systems when it flows into them.  Unfortunately, people see "antibacterial soap" and assume it will work better than plain soap and ignore all facts to the contrary.  I'm pretty sure that studies have shown that using regular soap and washing your hands well under running warm water for at least 30 seconds, if not longer, is at least as effective as using antibacterial soap, without any bad side effects.

Same thing with pesticides.  Yeah, they harm some people and some actually even die BUT far more die from NOT having the pesticides around.

KC

[franksolich]

I dunno.

I suppose some would call me a cleanliness fanatic; for me, there's no odor better, more refreshing, than that of bleach or ammonia or hydrogen peroxide (not mixed together, of course) permeating the house.

And a constantly-mopped kitchen floor, so that the cats, on their way to the litter-boxes near the back porch, don't pick up germs and filth.  Unlike the primitives, and even though I'm not a cat person, cats are a responsibility, and one wishes them to enjoy long and healthy lives.

I suppose it has something to do with having grown up around, and in, hospitals.

I am of course fully aware that dirt and filth can have useful purposes, such as strengthening the immune system and keeping one from evolving into a sissy.

But the deal is, out here in the Sandhills of Nebraska, dirt is ubiquitous, and one gets dirt whether one wishes to or not.  Not to mention that life is more sweatingly arduous here, than in the big blue cities.  So the cats and I get at least our quota, if not more, of the beneficial qualities of dirt.

It's always nice to have at least a small temporary haven from dirt.

[LC EFA]

This is a part of this ridiculous modern trend that some people have, who go around merrily sterilizing every surface in the house so that the "nasty buggy things" don't get on Junior.

In doing so ensuring that Junior has a untrained immune system and no inbuilt resilience to any number of extremely common chemicals and ailments that abound in the average house.

I believe it's a large part of the reason there's a huge influx in people who are severely effected by the most common ailments , and suffer allergic reactions to things that were common place in my childhood (peanut butter being one noteworthy example).

It's also part of the reason westerners are so over-medicated as to look like pill popping junkies.