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Offline Freeper

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If you try the terrorists as if they committed an act of war...
« on: November 24, 2009, 06:01:18 PM »
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WCGreen  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Tue Nov-24-09 05:36 PM
Original message
If you try the terrorists as if they committed an act of war...
   
Doesn't that elevate them to quasi statehood status?

My whole thinking about this is to bring them down to what they really are; rogue criminals.

And if, I believe they are, criminals, try them as criminals.

We tried the first World Trade Center as criminals, we tried the sniper as a criminal and we tried McVie et al as criminals.

Why does the Right wish to elevate these international thugs into something much more than they really are?

Oh, that's right, they have been stoking that fire since 9/12...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7081768

Maybe I'm crazy but bringing down the entire world trade center and killing almost 3000 innocent civilians sounds like an act of war to me.

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FiveGoodMen  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Tue Nov-24-09 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Agreed.
   
The whole thing should have been handled as a criminal matter, not a war.

I know why the Bushies got that wrong.

I don't know why America followed.

We must be stupid.

Yeah that worked really well after the WTC bombing of 93 oh wait they came back and did it right in 2001.

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aint_no_life_nowhere  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Tue Nov-24-09 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
5. The five alleged terrorists will be tried under criminal law, won't they?
   
I assumed that Holder was saying this, that they would seek the death penalty under criminal statutues. They will be tried in civilian courts, not the military commissions in Guantanamo that wanted them to be considered enemy combatants.

I'm not sure if you're saying that they won't be, or that you don't think the Republicans and their military commissions behind closed doors make sense. Personally, I want public trials where the world can see they get their day in court and get to present their best defense. I don't like the way they have already been tried and convicted in the public mind. I assume only the clearest and strongest cases will be brought to trial, but weren't some of the Guantanamo detainees sold to the CIA for a bounty by Afghan warlords, making their culpability suspect? I would rather see one or more go free than to have the slightest doubt about their innocence or guilt in closed door proceedings as the Republicans want.

So you would rather they go free and regroup and hit us again. Sadly you may get your wish.

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WCGreen  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Tue Nov-24-09 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I said pretty clearly to treat and try them as criminals...
   
It's the right that wanted to treat them as war criminals.

The question that begs to be asked but never was or is is can a state of war really exist between a rogue faction in a failed state and a nation state? If not, then they are criminals and should be treated as such.

Oh don't worry soon they too can sue if the jail gives them chunky instead of creamy peanut butter.

I'm just amazed at the stupidity at DUmmyland. I know they have been at it for 8 years but, I still am amazed.

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Offline GOBUCKS

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Re: If you try the terrorists as if they committed an act of war...
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2009, 06:05:34 PM »
To us these guys are terrorists and enemy combatants. To the president they are muslim brothers. He sees these show trials as a way to put Bush on trial, and possibly free some of those brothers.
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Offline thundley4

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Re: If you try the terrorists as if they committed an act of war...
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2009, 06:20:26 PM »
These five terrorists were captured in other countries fighting against the US, not robbing a convenience store.  Granted, some of them may get hired by convenience stores after they are released by Lord Zero and his buffoons.
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Offline Happy Fun Ball

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Re: If you try the terrorists as if they committed an act of war...
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2009, 06:25:05 PM »
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Doesn't that elevate them to quasi statehood status?
That's about what Afghanistan was like back in 2001.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: If you try the terrorists as if they committed an act of war...
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2009, 06:35:44 PM »
....and they wonder why they're viewed as pussies in terms of national defense.  :whatever:
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Offline TheSarge

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Re: If you try the terrorists as if they committed an act of war...
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2009, 07:26:34 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on November 24, 2009, 06:35:44 PM
....and they wonder why they're viewed as pussies in terms of national defense.  :whatever:

They are the only ones navel gazing in confusion over that.
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Offline GOBUCKS

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Re: If you try the terrorists as if they committed an act of war...
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2009, 07:30:16 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on November 24, 2009, 06:35:44 PM
....and they wonder why they're viewed as pussies in terms of national defense.  :whatever:
I would say they are viewed as pussies in every aspect of their lives.
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Offline jukin

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Re: If you try the terrorists as if they committed an act of war...
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2009, 08:33:18 PM »
DUmmys and deep thinking do not mix.
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Offline dutch508

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Re: If you try the terrorists as if they committed an act of war...
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2009, 09:58:28 AM »
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The question that begs to be asked but never was or is is can a state of war really exist between a rogue faction in a failed state and a nation state? If not, then they are criminals and should be treated as such.

You ought to ask the British about the Irish situation...
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: If you try the terrorists as if they committed an act of war...
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2009, 10:23:46 AM »
Quote from: jukin on November 24, 2009, 08:33:18 PM
DUmmys and deep thinking do not mix.

But c'mon--it's fun to watch them try.
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Offline Oceander

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Re: If you try the terrorists as if they committed an act of war...
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2009, 10:30:18 AM »
Trying them in military tribunals is not the equivalent of trying them for having committed an act of war; that is a false assumption that the DU poster is sneaking in there in order to skew the conversation.  Clearly, if they were being tried for having acted as if they were another sovereign state - even if no-one else recognized them as a sovereign state - then the DU poster's point would be valid; but that's not why or how they would have been tried in a military tribunal.  Since the assumption underlying the DU poster's "argument" is false, so are his conclusions - GiGo (Garbage in/Garbage out - pretty much describes the sum total of liberalism and liberal mental processes).
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Offline franksolich

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Re: If you try the terrorists as if they committed an act of war...
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2009, 02:40:20 PM »
Quote from: Oceander on November 25, 2009, 10:30:18 AM
GiGo (Garbage in/Garbage out - pretty much describes the sum total of liberalism and liberal mental processes).

You got it.

Admirable, sir.
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Offline dandi

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Re: If you try the terrorists as if they committed an act of war...
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2009, 02:55:35 PM »
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FiveGoodMen  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Tue Nov-24-09 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Agreed.
   
The whole thing should have been handled as a criminal matter, not a war.

I know why the Bushies got that wrong.

I don't know why America followed.

We must be stupid.

How does the apprehension part of that "criminal matter" work? Do you send a couple of FBI agents to Tora Bora with an arrest warrant?
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