Welcome to The Conservative Cave©!Join in the discussion! Click HERE to register.
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
WilliamPitt (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-21-09 11:01 AM NON-DONOROriginal message A Senate Democratic Chief of Staff chimes in ... There is a lot of misplaced anger coming from many of our fellow progressives about Senate Democrats (which often is just shortened to "The Democrats") inability to pass a robust healthcare reform bill, climate change, etc.However, I believe it's worth reminding folks that--as long as the Republican Senators hold together--we have to hold EVERY single Democratic Senator, including folks like Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson, which is usually impossible unless the legislation in question gets substantially watered down. So, what we might end up with is a Senate Democratic Caucus that holds 98% of its members but still fails to pass healthcare reform, AND a mob of angry progressives who are screaming for the heads of "the Democrats." This isn't fair, but more importantly, it's self-defeating. If progressives REALLY want to transform America, they'll make an issue of the anti-democratic rules of the Senate which make real change virtually impossible. Blasting their elected Democratic officials, the vast majority of whom will vote for the Senate bill (and would also support a more robust public option if we didn't need 60 votes to achieve cloture), may make folks feel good, but is both short-sighted and stupid.http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/all_a... I report, you decide.
yourout (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-21-09 11:04 AM NON-DONORResponse to Original message 1. Why did it never seem to be a problem for the Pukes to get cloture votes passed without 60? They seemed to be able to pass anything they wanted while in power and they did not have 60.
msongs (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-21-09 11:06 AM NON-DONORResponse to Reply #1 2. because nobody fears harry reid or barack obama?
bigtree (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-21-09 11:08 AM NON-DONORResponse to Reply #1 3. I've always seen that . . . resulting from republicans lacking the same number of 'liberal or moderate' members of their party to provide the drag that our 'conservative or moderate' members of our party regularly give to our initiatives.
LiberalAndProud (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-21-09 11:27 AMResponse to Reply #1 8. I'm just guessing, but Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman could be a couple of the reasons. They have no affection for or allegiance to progressive causes. At all. And they've been in DC for a very long time.
JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-21-09 11:34 AM NON-DONORResponse to Reply #1 11. Yeah, the staffer's narrative would more believable only if... you can forget what happened in 2001-2006, with constant high levels of Democratic collaboration in a lot of pieces of barbaric and plunder-enabling legislation, from USA PATRIOT and "Homeland Security" and Iraq war resolution and the Military Commissions votes (to name some of the "barbaric" variety) to No Child Left Breathing (barbarism and plunder, on children no less), the initial tax cuts, the Medicare welfare-for-pharma plan, FISA retroactive immunity and, of course, the capstone, the "Capitulation of Sovereignty to Goldman Sachs Plunder Act" of 2008. Let it be remembered that during the years when the fraudulently elected Bush regime raged all over the world, no credible threats ever issued from Congressional Democrats to deny cloture on any major Bush agenda legislation. The only major moves they avoided were ones where the regime itself feared to go too far, like the failure of the attempt to throw the Social Security fund into the stock market and the intelligence community's revolt against attacking Iran.
RBInMaine (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-21-09 11:16 AMResponse to Original message 4. Democrats ALSO need to ATTACK the RePUKES instead of their own, AND work for Senate rules reform.
lxlxlxl (838 posts) Sat Nov-21-09 11:23 AM NON-DONORResponse to Reply #4 5. agree...pass a bill and fix the problems four years from now, or... dont pass a bill...look weak as hell again, and re-elect more republicans...cycle continues ad nauseum
HughMoran (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-21-09 11:25 AM NON-DONORResponse to Original message 6. Damn, that is right on target Not only do people all too easily blame "The Democrats", but Republicans are allowed a complete pass for the most part.
branders seine (337 posts) Sat Nov-21-09 11:26 AM NON-DONORResponse to Original message 7. the identical rules did not prevent the bushies and the republicans from passing a single piece of vile, authoritarian, pro-corporate legislation for eight years--EVEN WHEN THE REPUBLICANS HAD ONLY 49 VOTES. Also, anger at "the Democrats" is not directed solely at the Senate. Also, the Democrats are holding nowhere near 98% of their members. Also, the Democrats gave away the baby and the family silver and first go at the virgin daughter before debate ever even started.Also, Stupak is a Democrat, is he not? Also, Baucus is a Democrat, is he not? Also, the Democrats have done nothing to change the Senate rules, which are indeed anti-change and anti-democracy. In fact, they've supported every change made by the republicans to make the rules even more restrictive. This Chief of Staff needs to quit whining and trying to cover his/her own ass and get busy doing the work of the people.
Le Taz Hot (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-21-09 11:28 AM NON-DONORResponse to Original message 9. This propaganda has been passed around for 30 years. Look around and see where it's gotten us.
PHIMG (437 posts) Sat Nov-21-09 11:32 AM NON-DONORResponse to Original message 10. Attack the ones who defend the undemocratic rules. It's time to NAME NAMES. No more incumbent protection racket.
mod mom (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-21-09 11:35 AMResponse to Original message 12. They can use reconciliation (used by repubs in past for tax cuts) to forward an issue that they were elected to enact. Sorry, but no more voting for corporate Dems in our household.
bridgit (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-21-09 11:35 AM NON-DONORResponse to Original message 13. No, no; we're Dems, we reserve the right to never agree while arguing with everything else...and *that* begs the q: Do progressives REALLY want to transform America?
JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-21-09 11:40 AM NON-DONORResponse to Original message 15. "WOO HOO!! 'Nuclear Option' in the Senate may have hit the reef" - WilliamPitt, May 2005 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... Memory is a fierce dog.
