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Naturyl (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-28-09 12:09 AMOriginal message Guaranteed Minimum Income thread needs help from poverty advocates http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... Experience has shown that many DUers would like to continue ignoring the one and only immediate and permanent solution to poverty. Let's not make it easy for them. Regular kicks would help keep this idea at the forefront. Poverty will absolutely not be solved until a GMI is implemented, and we can't afford to take no for answer. It all starts with educating and convincing the home crowd. We have to do that before the idea will ever have a chance elsewhere.
ThirdWorldJohn (525 posts) Tue Jul-28-09 12:22 AMResponse to Original message 1. I was in a store recently and over heard a young woman telling the cashier that the hamburger - fast food establishment was reducing their wages from the minimum wage to $2.15 an hour. This spo shocked me that when I got home I searched the net to see if this is legal. I found that it is. The minimum wage set for employees that earn money from tips has not been raised since I think 1970. And since many people who eat at fast food places are young teenagers, I think the tips will be either very small or not at all. Sad for the people who will work at that place.
teachableseconds (79 posts) Tue Jul-28-09 03:36 PMResponse to Reply #1 9. Whoa...wait a minute here: If this is a sit-down place with wait staff, then yeah. But you mentioned fast food. They have minimum wages and actually raised them higher a few years ago (before the bottom fell out) because they were having trouble attracting people. There is no way that a Bugger King would ever have two bucks an hour as a wage. The workers don't get tips. They have started putting out a cup for possible tips at some places, but that is not the same as someone getting waited on and tipping. And there are some burger places that would fit that bill. I have never been a waitress, but if you can get 4 tables an hour, you can make a decent wage for someone without a degree, I am thinking...My question is what we would designate as 'living wage?' I am thinking around $12-14 an hour.
Simeon (21 posts) Tue Jul-28-09 12:23 AMResponse to Original message 2. How will it work? Great! Now how do we get a GMI to work? Seriously, if we are going to "educate the home crowd" there must be a means of not only implementing the program but supporting (funding) it as well. How do we define who is eligible? - or is everyone eligible?
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-28-09 12:30 AMResponse to Reply #2 3. There are two major proposals. One is "Basic Income Grants" which would go to everyone. All citizens would get a monthly check sufficient to raise any recipient out of poverty. Those who didn't need the money would repay it through normal taxation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income The other, and the one I favor, is a "Negative Income Tax." This gives everyone below the poverty line a refundable tax credit sufficient to raise their income above the poverty line. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax There is plenty of information at the Wikipedia links provided, as well as the external links and references in each article.
bobbolink (1000+ posts) Wed Aug-05-09 02:50 PMResponse to Reply #3 11. Thank you for the links. Nixon, our last liberal president, advocated this! How long will it take?More accurately, how many unnecessary deaths before this necesary change is made???
Jkid (542 posts) Thu Nov-12-09 11:55 PMResponse to Reply #3 12. I prefer a basic income law. It's a lot more stable than a lump sum for a year.
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-28-09 12:31 AMResponse to Original message 4. Whoever unreced this into less than zero Is a coward and not a friend of the poor. Isn't anonymity great? Your inner Freeper can run wild.
bobbolink (1000+ posts) Wed Aug-05-09 02:49 PMResponse to Reply #4 10. Yet, we've been assured that DUers are using the "unrec" "responsibly". I've seen this many times now on poverty issues, and I think this needs to be documented and protested.Or, alternatively, ADMIT that it's not "progressive" and/or Democratic to care about poverty, and make that statement up front.Thank you for pointing this out!
Davis_X_Machina (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-28-09 12:33 AMResponse to Original message 5. An ancient idea... ...we were debating this in high school in 1973-4: "Resolved:That the federal government should guarantee a minimum annual income to each family unit." I have an old copy of The Report of the President's Commission on Income Maintenance Systems somewhere in the attic.(NB 'The President' was that damn socialist, Nixon.)The EITC was a direct outgrowth of that effort 35 years ago.I remember the first line of the 1AC: "The leading cause of poverty in the United States is not having enough money."
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-28-09 12:48 AMResponse to Reply #5 6. Yes, it's not a new idea by any means. Nixon nearly passed it. Milton Friedman (of all people) supported it. There was a time when this was actually on the table as an actual possibility.But that time is long-past, and it's up to us to bring it back. America needed this 35 years ago and still needs it today. The EITC, implemented by Reagan (again, of all people) is nice, but nowhere near sufficient.
Simeon (21 posts) Tue Jul-28-09 01:40 AMResponse to Reply #5 7. No kiddin' ? ! ? How many degrees did the person who wrote that have?So are we going to fix the problem by giving it away or by creating an economy with more opportunity?(Giving it away is not going to work. It never has and never will.)
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-28-09 02:47 AMResponse to Reply #7 8. "Opportunity" is not relevant to all people in poverty. Never has been and never will.Expanding "opportunity" is a partial solution at best, and it leaves a large number behind. A GMI leaves no one behind.
Stupid at so many levels.Give everyone 30,000/yr and the official poverty level instantly becomes 30,000.
The level of clulessness in this thread is astounding.
