primitives discuss low milk prices

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6873503

Oh my.

I was hoping the anti-milk primitives were at this bonfire, but they aren't, but anyway, since I put this into the boat and rowed it over here, I might as well post it.

Mrs. Overall  (1000+ posts)      Wed Oct-28-09 10:36 AM
Original message
 
Low milk prices have dairy farmers killing cows (the way to raise dairy prices is to reduce supply)

http://www.komonews.com/news/business/66415592.html

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) - After burning through $1 million in savings and seeing no end to their losses, dairy farmers Jake and Lori Slegers figured they didn't have much choice - they had to kill the cows. So one day last summer their sons tagged all 1,571 cows, loaded them onto trailers at their farm south of Fresno, Calif., and watched them rumble away to a slaughterhouse. Lori Slegers said her husband came into the house and broke down. "He said it was the hardest thing he ever had to do," she said. "Luckily, my boys could do it."

Growing demand in developing nations drove up milk prices when times were good, and dairy farmers expanded their herds. But the global recession hurt exports and left farmers with too much milk on their hands. Milk processors cut the price they were willing to pay farmers, in many cases below what it cost to produce milk.

In the past year, hundreds of farmers have come to the same conclusion as the Slegers: The only way to raise prices is to reduce the supply, and that means killing cows. In some cases, whole herds have been turned into hamburger. In others, farmers have kept their best producers and sent the rest to slaughter.

The Slegers turned to an industry-run program called Cooperatives Working Together, or CWT, which pays farmers going out of business to kill - rather than sell - their cows and help remaining dairy operations by reducing the milk supply. Until this year, the 6-year-old program had paid for about 275,000 dairy cows to be slaughtered. This year alone, it has paid for more than 225,000 to be killed. In addition, individual farmers are sending cows to slaughter at a pace of about 55,000 per week, said Robert Cropp, a professor emeritus at the University of Wisconsin. At that rate, about 3 million cows could be killed in a year.

(There is something so twisted about this.)

GodlessBiker  (1000+ posts)        Wed Oct-28-09 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
 
1. Does this mean the price of hamburger will come down?

Mrs. Overall  (1000+ posts)      Wed Oct-28-09 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
 
2. Exactly--I was wondering the same thing. Does this drive beef prices down?

Where do the primitives get this stupid idea that the cattleman gets any substantial proportion of the revenue from beef?

Javaman  (1000+ posts)        Wed Oct-28-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
 
3. They will then have to slaughter people so they don't eat it. 

but then the price of SOYLENT GREEN will also drop!

man, will this insanity never end????

safeinOhio  (1000+ posts)      Wed Oct-28-09 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
 
12. Maybe the dollar menu will get quarter pounders.

Malikshah  (1000+ posts)        Wed Oct-28-09 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
 
4. Obviously someone is getting rich as the price of milk at Publix keeps going up...

Ah, yes, the commodities speculators and oil prices.....

Yup the dairy farmers get screwed, the consumers get screwed, the cows get killed and the rich keep getting richer.

Where is Madame Guillotine these days?

The primitive from southeastern Nebraska, an emigre from Pennsylvania:

TwilightGardener  (1000+ posts)      Wed Oct-28-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
 
5. This couple had a million in savings. I'm not crying for them.

I feel bad for the cows.

MadHound  (1000+ posts)      Wed Oct-28-09 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
 
13. This isn't a couple, this is a small business that had a million in savings

Farming is a business, and like any good business you stash money away for hard times. They did the right thing, put some money away for hard times when business was good. It doesn't take that long, a year or two, for a decent size farming operation to go through a million dollars when times are bad.

I feel bad for this couple, because now that they've gone through their cushion (the million dollars), and the seed money (which was invested in the cows), they have little to fall back on except the tender mercies of banks.

It was these sorts of boom and bust cycles that killed a bunch of small farmers during the seventies and eighties. A lot of small farmers started out with that sort of monetary cushion and were flat broke within a matter of months. Now we're getting this wave of farms going under, and their place will be taken by more and more factory farms. So when you start complaining about GM food, or pus in your milk, or factory farms in general, remember your lack of remorse for these people as karma comes back to bite you.

Mrs. Overall  (1000+ posts)      Wed Oct-28-09 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #13
 
14. You are correct. It's not their fault--this points to the larger problem of agribusiness--and those who are given or refused financial help.

MadHound  (1000+ posts)      Wed Oct-28-09 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #14
 
16. I find it stunning how few people around here have any clue about agri-business

They just see the figure of a million dollars and think that these people are wealthy folks, thus it's OK to screw them.

The primitive from southeastern Nebraska, the emigre from Pennsylvania, again:

TwilightGardener  (1000+ posts)      Wed Oct-28-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #13
 
18. Yeah, I used to worry about the plight of farmers, too--until I moved to the heart of farm country. I don't know any poor farmers--I used to work at a grain elevator and got some eye-opening info on the locals. I don't doubt that there are exceptions. But in this dairy example, the couple overinvested in cows, and then they got hit with a bad cycle. That's the way it goes. I will never feel bad for anyone with a million dollars in the bank--not in farm equipment or other assets, mind you--but actual cash in savings.

MadHound  (1000+ posts)      Wed Oct-28-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #18
 
22. You don't know any poor farmers, gee, why's that? 

Oh, yeah, they were driven out during the seventies and eighties by the same boom and bust cycles we're continuing to see now. Now the farmers that are being driven out are the middle class farmers(there are no upper class farmers, except for corporations). These are the last bastion of small farms in this country, and your lack of sympathy is quite telling. I guess you must be pissed at a lot of middle class couples who saved up over a million dollars for retirement also.

TwilightGardener  (1000+ posts)      Wed Oct-28-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #22
 
25. Not sure why I should have sympathy for people who won the lucky-sperm contest and had land and a ready-made business passed down to them. Around here, kids fight each other to get the farm (or sections of it) from their aging parents. I lost that "farmers are speshul" feeling a long time ago--they're just another form of small business, to me. They're not exempt from market forces and downturns, none of us are.

If the primitive from southeastern Nebraska doesn't think farmers are special, perhaps the primitive from southeastern Nebraska should try living life without eating, to see how that works out.

theHandpuppet (1000+ posts)        Wed Oct-28-09 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #13
 
24. Thanks for your post, MadHound

I have a cousin who farms the same land that has been in the family for 150 years. In addition to crops, he is one of the few local farmers who still keeps a small herd of dairy cattle. I doubt that family tradition will last much longer because the price of milk is so low.

I know just how hard he works and how much he cares about family farming. I also know just how expensive it is to run a farm and how you can be just one crop failure or one market drop away from disaster.

Ikonoklast  (1000+ posts)        Wed Oct-28-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
 
17. A million for a dairy operation that size is NOTHING.

Trust me on this one, you could burn through that million just for operating costs in a quick hurry when trying to stay afloat until prices turned around.

When selling your product at a loss in a market that shows no inkling of rising, it turns into a race of how much money you burn through vs. time. You just hope you can outlast the downturn in prices and still have some operating funds left.

Mrs. Overall  (1000+ posts)      Wed Oct-28-09 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
 
7. Yes--the prices of milk, yogurt, butter, cheese--are still high--I thought that was related to the cost of oil and trucking.

On Edit-others are saying that the prices are lower, but here in WA State the prices are still fairly high for dairy products.

superduperfarleft (1000+ posts)      Wed Oct-28-09 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
 
6. What does everyone think happens to cows who no longer produce milk?

Do you all think they go to a retirement home or something?

excess_3 (1000+ posts)      Wed Oct-28-09 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
 
8. milk . $1.99 a gallon .

notadmblnd  (1000+ posts)        Wed Oct-28-09 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
 
10. milk prices only came down recently...like in the last year. before that we were paying nearly $4.00 a gallon. they've been selling cows for slaughter for 6 years tring to get the prices back up? What's wrong with that picture?

Tippy (1000+ posts)        Wed Oct-28-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #10
 
19. Ever heard.....of speculators?...gonna tell my brother the farmer

Sell all your livestock...Rent your land and become a speculator....

notadmblnd  (1000+ posts)        Wed Oct-28-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #19
 
20. well sure...and that makes the article bullshit, or cow shit, which ever you prefer.

no_hypocrisy  (1000+ posts)      Wed Oct-28-09 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
 
11. Oh great, hamburger mixed in with estrogen and other hormones.

The2ndWheel  (1000+ posts)        Wed Oct-28-09 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
 
15. Still don't understand why we can't be honest about it

They're not cows. They're mass produced products. Who isn't though, ya know?

Tippy (1000+ posts)        Wed Oct-28-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #15
 
21. Not all are mass produced.....there are still honest to God farmers out there

And Bo's doing his best to extinct the honest to God farmers out here.

aikoaiko  (1000+ posts)      Wed Oct-28-09 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
 
23. And I was just thinking how happy I was to see milk prices so low. 
 
Unintended consequences.

[crockspot]

That TwilightGardener is a real POS. I'd like to see him stripped naked and set adrift on a raft off the coast of Venezuela.

[Lord Undies]

The Little Goons always hop on the logic train sometime after it has left the station and they always jump off the train before it reaches its destination.  This is especially true when it's the Economics Express.

The Little Goons never ride long enough to actually see that if it weren't for the desire of normal ambitious people to "get rich", the Little Goons would be lying starving and naked in the dirt.  They dang sure would not have a computer and God knows they wouldn't have DemocratUnderground.com.

Hey, Little Goons:  Profits and riches are not evil.  What's evil is wanting people to live in a world without those things.

You Little Goons get to enjoy your average comfortable lives because of "rich people", not inspite of them.

[delilahmused]

Amazing how these people who "care" so much for the little people turn into greedy little bitches when they find out someone might have more than them. TwightGardener is a jealous, stupid, vicious little twit.

Cindie

[franksolich]

That TwilightGardener is a real POS. I'd like to see him stripped naked and set adrift on a raft off the coast of Venezuela.

The primitive's a femme, ostensibly a registered nurse.

I wish she'd move back to Pennsylvania, instead of being a burden to Nebraska.

[crockspot]

The primitive's a femme, ostensibly a registered nurse.

I wish she'd move back to Pennsylvania, instead of being a burden to Nebraska.

OK, in that case, fixed!

That TwilightGardener is a real POS. I'd like to see  him her stripped naked and set adrift on a raft off the coast of Venezuela in my pool.

[BlueStateSaint]

OK, in that case, fixed!

That TwilightGardener is a real POS. I'd like to see  him her stripped naked and set adrift on a raft off the coast of Venezuela in my pool.

Crock, there may not be enough chlorine in existence to sanitize your pool after that . . .

[GOBUCKS]

MadHound  (1000+ posts)      Wed Oct-28-09 11:04 AM
So when you start complaining about GM food, or pus in your milk, or factory farms in general, remember your lack of remorse for these people as karma comes back to bite you.

I'm all in favor of factory farms and genetically-modified plants and animals, but stand foursquare against pus in milk.

[JohnnyReb]

1,571 cows times the Obama "cow fart" tax of $150 per dairy cow/per year ='s $235,650.00 saved in just one year.

Now using DUmmie logic + DUmmie math ...13 trillion  ....diveded by $150 ..... is a ...uh...WOW..... If we kill off 86,666,667 cows....we could save our way out of the national debt.

[jtyangel]

Mrs. Overall  (1000+ posts)      Wed Oct-28-09 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
 
7. Yes--the prices of milk, yogurt, butter, cheese--are still high--I thought that was related to the cost of oil and trucking.

On Edit-others are saying that the prices are lower, but here in WA State the prices are still fairly high for dairy products.

Where do these idiots all live? I see one mentioned Publix--Florida most likely...ie a state going increasingly more to the left!

This one is in WA State--I'm guessing in themore left most portion of it.

Ok, well dairy products are NOT rising here. The savings have made their way to the consumers for months now. I buy milk for no more then 1.99 a gallon usually, but usually pay between 1.59-1.79 a gallon at either Kroger or Meijer's--someone has it one special usually. Cheese? Kroger just ran the 1.00 each on shredded and block cheeses and they do the same for cottage cheese and sour cream.

I buy an extra pack or two everytime it gets that low and I throw it in the freezer and keep rotating through it so I'm not hurting entirely for recipes when it gets ridiculous again.

IN addition to that, eggs came down around the same time. The REGULAR price of eggs at Kroger is 1.29 a dozen now, but one can usually find them on special for .79-.99 a dozen for long stretches of time. Quite frankly, I'm excited for baking season this year given this!

I feel terrible for the farmers, but for my budget it has helped tremendously after several months of 3.00 a gallon milk and 2.79 shredded and block cheese. Not to mention 2.19 a dozen eggs. It's an ebb and flow and the consumer will be on the crappy side of it again before long.

If anyone knows why the cost is lower in the midwest then some other areas of the country, do tell. I'm assuming it is because we are a large dairy provider and we lose a lot of the interstate and travel costs that some other states have, not to mention I would guess taxing structures are more friendly since Ohio, for example, is still a big farming state.???

[Carl]

I deal with dairy farmers every day at work and have asked numerous ones if they know exactly how the price they receive is determined and not a single one yet can tell me.

It is a convoluted mess based on the price of cheese and powder milk futures determined to some extent by how much surplus fluid milk the government has purchased in those processed forms.
Beyond that I have no idea either but todays problems are still the direct result of the cheap food policy that the government has been behind since FDR.

[The Village Idiot]

Economies of scale says that smaller farms are likely to be less efficient than some of the larger ones.

If smaller farms shut down and sell out to big farmers instead of building a new subdivision, it could end up saving us more money.

[JohnnyReb]

Why DUmmies don't farm.....because they're dumber than dirt.