Author Topic: DUmmies discuss Venezuela-Columbia tensions  (Read 3943 times)

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Offline Attero Dominatus

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DUmmies discuss Venezuela-Columbia tensions
« on: March 02, 2008, 04:17:03 PM »
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2950879

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tekisui  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sun Mar-02-08 04:22 PM
Original message
Chavez warns of war with Colombia; Sends Tanks, Troops to Border, Closes Embassy.
   
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Warning that Colombia could spark a war, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez sent tanks and thousands of troops to the countries' border Sunday and ordered his government's embassy in Bogota closed.

The leftist leader warned Colombia's U.S.-allied government that Venezuela will not permit acts like Saturday's killing of top rebel leader Raul Reyes and 16 other Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia guerrillas at a camp across the border in Ecuador.

"Mr. Defense Minister, move 10 battalions to the border with Colombia for me, immediately — tank battalions, deploy the air force," Chavez said during his weekly TV and radio program. "We don't want war, but we aren't going to permit the U.S. empire, which is the master (of Colombia) ... to come to divide us."

He ordered the Venezuelan Embassy in Bogota closed and said all embassy personnel would be withdrawn. It pushes already tense relations between the South American neighbors to their lowest point yet, with potentially far-reach effects on billions of dollars in cross-border trade.

Though Chavez didn't say how many troops he was sending, a Venezuelan battalion traditionally has some 600 soldiers — meaning some 6,000 could be headed to the border.

Chavez called the Colombian government "a terrorist state" as he sided with the leftist rebels it has battled for decades, saying its military "invaded Ecuador, flagrantly violated Ecuador's sovereignty."

more at link: http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Chavez_warns_of_wa...

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Pavulon  (1000+ posts) Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sun Mar-02-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. You think oil is going up?
   
me too..
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Hydra  (1000+ posts) Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sun Mar-02-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is likely to get ugly
   
But I'm sure that was what Bushco had in mind.
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Is there anything you idiots DO NOT blame Bush on?

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Disturbed  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sun Mar-02-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Does Venezuela have a non-Aggression Pact with Ecuador?
   
It is a bit strange that Chavez would actually go to War with
Columbia over this matter.
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Hydra  (1000+ posts) Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sun Mar-02-08 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Chavez isn't stupid
   
He'll have his forces waiting at the border, and if he's really smart, he'll invite UN observers to watch.

Here's what's likely to happen: Columbia will violate Venezuela's borders "hunting for terrorists." Chavez will shoot back, and if Columbia doesn't retreat, The US will probably say that we need to protect Columbia.

That's when this will get ugly.
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Pavulon  (1000+ posts) Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sun Mar-02-08 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. No he is acting in HIS best interest
   
his actions and jaw jacking will drive up the cost of oil. The only thing of value he sells.

He will not start a war. Nor will columbia.

Lot of fuss over a dead communist.
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What makes you so sure that a war will not happen?

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Peace Patriot  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sun Mar-02-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Venzuela and Ecuador are very strong allies. I don't know if they have a defense
   
pact. Venezuela does with Bolivia. So it probably does with Ecuador and also Argentina. They are all leftist (majorityist) governments, with similar social justice policies, and their leaders are good friends: Chavez in Venezuela, Rafael Correa in Ecuador, Evo Morales in Bolivia, Cristina Fernandez Kirchner in Argentina. Chavez also has a friend and strong backer in Lula da Silva of Brazil. Daniel Ortega in Nicaragua is also an ally of Venezuela. Indeed, friends and allies of Chavez and Venezuela cover virtually the whole continent of South America. Colombia is very isolated, and able to maintain its brutal fascist security forces and rightwing paramilitary death squads only with billions of our taxpayer dollars, filtered through Bushite fingers.

Bush-funded Colombia security forces have been making incursions over Venezuela's border for some time, with various excuses (the corrupt "war on drugs" being one of them), and causing incidents (such as pesticide spraying of Venezuelan peasant farmers).
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The tinfoil is strong with this one.

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sfexpat2000  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sun Mar-02-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. This is the thing. The US has been using Colombia
   
Edited on Sun Mar-02-08 04:58 PM by sfexpat2000
to wage a low grade proxy war against the Chavez government. Sending in troops to flop houses to stage actions, building bases right up against the border. This is a total BushCo action via our bought client, the Colombian government.

It's not just this. This is just the latest. :(
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The US supports Columbia against the FARC terrorists you idiot.

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L. Coyote  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sun Mar-02-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Rodriguez was in charge, CIA torture tapes Rodriguez
   
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tekisui  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sun Mar-02-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. The chimpy backed violence is getting closer.
   
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malaise  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sun Mar-02-08 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. So who do you think is promoting this madness
   
Check Bush and Cheney.
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malaise  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sun Mar-02-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. I know
   
They don't care who dies as long as they control the world's oil.
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:thatsright:

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L. Coyote  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sun Mar-02-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
15. Colombia intruded into Ecuador. Then the OP follows.
   
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Those who would trade their liberty for temporary security will get neither. --Benjamin Franklin.

Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: DUmmies discuss Venezuela-Columbia tensions
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2008, 04:21:24 PM »
The irony is, ol' Hugo would have them lined up against the wall and shot before anyone else.  I believe Lenin called individuals like those that inhabit the DUmp "useful idiots."
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Offline Freeper

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Re: DUmmies discuss Venezuela-Columbia tensions
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2008, 04:31:11 PM »
The irony is, ol' Hugo would have them lined up against the wall and shot before anyone else.  I believe Lenin called individuals like those that inhabit the DUmp "useful idiots."

I would call them useless idiots but, that's just me.  :-)
I may not lock my doors while sitting at a red light and a black man is near, but I sure as hell grab on tight to my wallet when any democrats are close by.

Online SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: DUmmies discuss Venezuela-Columbia tensions
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2008, 05:49:42 PM »
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kimo 
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Chavez is paranoic about colombians. I would be too if I was him
Colombia`s goverment gets huge military support both from Izrael and US.
Ecuador first protested Colombian last action.

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brooklynzoo81 
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This maybe the chance that the Neo-Cons have been waiting for. Afghanistan, Iraq, then Venezuela. As mentioned by Aaron Russo when he was trying to be recruited by Nick Rockefeller.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...53830426590918 (Minute 22)
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=125547

Except these are Ronulans.

Not that you can tell that easily.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Online SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: DUmmies discuss Venezuela-Columbia tensions
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2008, 06:57:56 PM »
Same Ronulan thread.

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i admire chavez for standing up to the USA...the USA wants to take over venezuelas oil....the msm will paint chavez to be a bad guy as they do with castro....but ask the people of venezuela what they think and they will tell u chavez has done alot for them...btw im from colombia and im pissed as all hell that they have allowed the US to interefer with their politics...the USA will use colombia as a pawn to invade and go to war with venezuela

Remember kids: to Ronulans, a neocon is a socialist Trotskyite...and presumably that makes them bad.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline miskie

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Re: DUmmies discuss Venezuela-Columbia tensions
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2008, 08:00:01 PM »
It sounds to me that Chavez is acting just like the imperialist that the DUmmys insist that US is acting as. Yet, somehow, this kind of imperialism is good...

Offline asdf2231

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Re: DUmmies discuss Venezuela-Columbia tensions
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2008, 08:12:45 PM »
Holy Shit.

3/4 of the threads in the "Foreign Policy" forum over at Dr. Asstard's forum are whining about how oppressed the poor Palestinians are.

And about how much the U.S. Sucks.

You could literally transplant most of those threads to DU and I would not  be able to tell the difference between the two sites.




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Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life...

Offline Attero Dominatus

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Re: DUmmies discuss Venezuela-Columbia tensions
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2008, 08:35:54 PM »
Holy Shit.

3/4 of the threads in the "Foreign Policy" forum over at Dr. Asstard's forum are whining about how oppressed the poor Palestinians are.

And about how much the U.S. Sucks.

You could literally transplant most of those threads to DU and I would not  be able to tell the difference between the two sites.

The Paulistinians are just a tribute band singing coversongs of all the DU takingpoints. No difference.
Those who would trade their liberty for temporary security will get neither. --Benjamin Franklin.

Offline ReardenSteel

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Re: DUmmies discuss Venezuela-Columbia tensions
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2008, 10:38:44 PM »
DUmbass DUer...
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the msm will paint chavez to be a bad guy as they do with castro

WOW!  :mental:

OK. Here goes. (thank you MRC, link at bottom of page)


From the far right wingers at Human Rights Watch...
http://hrw.org/englishwr2k7/docs/2007/01/11/cuba14886.htm
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Cuba remains the one country in Latin America that represses nearly all forms of political dissent. President Fidel Castro, during his 47 years in power, has shown no willingness to consider even minor reforms. Instead, the Cuban government continues to enforce political conformity using criminal prosecutions, long- and short-term detentions, mob harassment, police warnings, surveillance, house arrests, travel restrictions, and politically-motivated dismissals from employment. The end result is that Cubans are systematically denied basic rights to free expression, association, assembly, privacy, movement, and due process of law.

From the far right wingers at Amnesty International....
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/americas/caribbean/cuba
Freedom of expression and association
Quote
Severe restrictions on freedom of expression and association persisted. All print and broadcast media remained under state control. There was a rise in the harassment and intimidation of independent journalists and librarians.

Harassment and intimidation of dissidents and activists
Quote
There was an increase in the public harassment and intimidation of human rights activists and political dissidents by quasi-official groups in so-called acts of repudiation.

And how does the MSM in the good ol USofA treat Castro?

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"When outsiders think of Cuba, it’s often the lack of political freedoms and economic power that comes to mind. Cubans who have chosen to stay on the island, however, are quick to point out the positives: safe streets, a rich and accessible cultural life, a leisurely lifestyle to enjoy with family and friends....For all its flaws, life in Castro’s Cuba has its comforts, and unknown alternatives are not automatically more attractive....Many foreigners consider it propaganda when Castro’s government enumerates its accomplishments, but many Cubans take pride in their free education system, high literacy rates and top-notch doctors. Ardent Castro supporters say life in the United States, in contrast, seems selfish, superficial, and — despite its riches — ultimately unsatisfying."
— Associated Press writer Vanessa Arrington in an August 4, 2006 dispatch, "Some Cubans enjoy comforts of communism."

Quote
In 2006, after Fidel Castro’s declining health forced him to turn power over to his brother Raul, many members of the U.S. media fell over themselves in describing the dictator in poetic terms. On Fox News’s Geraldo At Large, host Geraldo Rivera went overboard in a commentary about Castro’s legacy, using flowery descriptions such as "the iron man of revolutionary rhetoric," "romantic revolutionary," and even "charismatic commie." An awe-struck Rivera recalled: "He is a towering historic figure, and meeting and interviewing him was one of the most memorable experiences of a young reporter's life." (CyberAlert, August 3, 2006)

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"There’s a good chance that Fidel Castro, who marks his 78th birthday today, could keep going for another 40 years, the Cuban leader’s personal physician says....Cuban officials say the same revolutionary zeal that has driven nearly five decades of socialism can overcome the ravages of time....At least 40 different Cuban research groups are said to be at work unlocking the secrets of aging. The research ranges from studying special diets to basic research on genetics."
— Reporter Eric Sabo in an August 13, 2004 USA Today story headlined, "Cuba pursues a 120-year-old future."

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"Like these young dancers, Carlos [Acosta] benefited from Cuba’s communist system because it not only recognizes physical talent, it nurtures it, whether it’s baseball, boxing, or ballet."
— CBS 60 Minutes correspondent Christiane Amanpour [also with CNN] on a star of London’s Royal Ballet, May 21, 2000.

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"The island may have been a thorn in Washington’s side, but it was a beacon of success for much of Latin America and the Third World. For decades, Cuba’s health care and education systems were touted as great achievements of the revolution....Some say the trade ban has never given Cuba a chance to see whether or not Castro’s socialism might work."
— Correspondent Giselle Fernandez, September 4, 1994 CBS Evening News.
:censored: REALLY!?? Communism might work if only it had FREE TRADE!???  :censored:

MRC link. There is much more...
http://www.mrc.org/SpecialReports/2007/castro/welcome.asp

"When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion - when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you - when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice - you may know that your society is doomed."

- Ayn Rand
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1826

Offline ReardenSteel

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Re: DUmmies discuss Venezuela-Columbia tensions
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2008, 10:44:21 PM »
DUmbass DUer...
Quote
the msm will paint chavez to be a bad guy as they do with castro

Really?

Quote
For a May 2002 Special Report, MRC analysts examined five years of CNN’s Cuban coverage. They found CNN aired six times more soundbites from communist leaders than from non-communist groups such as the Catholic Church and peaceful dissidents. Only about three percent of CNN’s Cuba coverage focused on Cuban dissidents, and less than one percent dealt with the harassment and intimidation of independent journalists in Cuba. Fidel Castro himself was treated more as a celebrity than a tyrant, with stories about his 73rd birthday party and an in-depth look at his office furnishings in a segment called "Cool Digs."

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In April 1991, Ted Turner’s TBS station ran a two-hour homage, Portrait of Castro’s Cuba. Narrator James Earl Jones read a gushing, pro-Castro script: "Incessantly involved in affairs around the globe, this island nation has won the respect, sometimes grudgingly, of countries twenty times its size. Castro’s Cuba stands tall in the ranks of nations....Today is a passionate display of national pride. These men [Cuban soldiers returning from Angola] are symbols of all that Castro’s Cuba has aspired to be: A nation to be reckoned with. A major player on the world stage. Defiant, spirited, free." To show how the Cuban people feel about Fidel, the program quoted an armed militia member: "We want Fidel, he is our father, he is the father of our people. The Revolution is our mother and we feel proud." (MediaWatch, May 1991)

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"To be a poor child in Cuba may in many instances be better than being a poor child in Miami and I’m not going to condemn their lifestyle so gratuitously."
— Newsweek’s Eleanor Clift on The McLaughlin Group, April 8, 2000.

« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 10:48:31 PM by ReardenSteel »
"When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion - when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you - when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice - you may know that your society is doomed."

- Ayn Rand
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1826

Offline ReardenSteel

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Re: DUmmies discuss Venezuela-Columbia tensions
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2008, 10:55:05 PM »
DUmbass DUer...

Quote
Quote
the msm will paint chavez to be a bad guy as they do with castro

Oh yeah, and this little disaster...


Here is the MSM making Cuba the bad guys....  :whatever:

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"Without doubt he [Castro] is taking personal control of the case of the six-year-old, even to the point of calling child psychiatrists to ask about the effect of all this on the child’s mind. His chief concern: Could the boy readjust to life here?...He seemed old-fashioned, courtly — even paternal."
— NBC’s Andrea Mitchell on the December 15, 1999 Nightly News. For more, see the December 16, 1999 CyberAlert.

Quote
"Why did she [Elian’s mother, a maid] do it? What was she escaping? By all accounts this quiet, serious young woman, who loved to dance the salsa, was living the good life, as good as it gets for a citizen in Cuba....An extended family destroyed by a mother’s decision to start a new life."
— Jim Avila from Havana on NBC Nightly News, April 8, 2000. For more, see the April 10 CyberAlert.
:bird: :bird: :bird: :bird:

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"Elian will almost certainly rejoin the Pioneers as almost all Cuban children do. It’s very much like the Cub Scouts, camping trips and all, but with a socialist flavor and a revolutionary spin. But besides politics, what will he learn? Cubans boast about their universal free education...."
— Keith Morrison from Cuba, previewing Elian’s new life, June 28, 2000 Dateline NBC. For more, see the June 30, 2000 CyberAlert.

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"While Fidel Castro, and certainly justified on his record, is widely criticized for a lot of things, there is no question that Castro feels a very deep and abiding connection to those Cubans who are still in Cuba. And, I recognize this might be controversial, but there’s little doubt in my mind that Fidel Castro was sincere when he said, ‘listen, we really want this child back here.’"
— Dan Rather, live on CBS the morning of the Elian raid, April 22, 2000. For more, see the April 23,200 CyberAlert.


 :bird: :bird:
"When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion - when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you - when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice - you may know that your society is doomed."

- Ayn Rand
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1826

Offline jukin

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Re: DUmmies discuss Venezuela-Columbia tensions
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2008, 11:06:36 AM »
The MSM is so right wing.
When you are the beneficiary of someone’s kindness and generosity, it produces a sense of gratitude and community.

When you are the beneficiary of a policy that steals from someone and gives it to you in return for your vote, it produces a sense of entitlement and dependency.