primitives discuss capitalism

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6838082

Oh my.

The orange marmalade primitive ("marmar") lights a bonfire about the "immorality" of the job hunt, but that's not important, so never mind.  The primitives instead immediately start discussing capitalism.

paulsby  (1000+ posts)      Thu Oct-22-09 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
 
1. ah, more chicken little myopic nonsense

"American society is in decline and as the case of C. R. England will show, the opportunities for resurgence are minimal, if they exist at all"

utter rubbish. everytime we have a recession (let alone a depression) all the anti-capitalist ding dongs come out of the woodwork and say capitalism is doomed, the US is doomed, it will never recover, bla bla

and yes, we always do. better than before

those who don't know history...

marmar  (1000+ posts)        Thu Oct-22-09 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
 
2. "Anti-capitalist ding dongs".....almost as bad as the pro-capitalist ones, n'est-ce pas?

paulsby  (1000+ posts)      Thu Oct-22-09 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
 
5. not really

i'm a defender of capitalism. i think it's great. i think critics of capitalism are foolish

Fumesucker  (1000+ posts)        Thu Oct-22-09 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
 
8. Says the person that works for the government..

paulsby  (1000+ posts)      Thu Oct-22-09 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
 
13. every capitalist nation needs and has govt. workers. and a govt.

i'm pro capitalism

you may have me confused with an anarchist. THEY think there should be no police.

heck, even the libertarians (vast majority) aren;'t against govt. police, fire etc.

oh, and also i greatly benefit from and enjoy the stock and the futures market. those are pure capitalist institutions

Fumesucker  (1000+ posts)        Fri Oct-23-09 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #13
 
17. Funny that a person that is so pro capitalist..

Doesn't use them.. letters I mean..

Reminds me of an old joke..

Under capitalism, it's dog-eat-dog..

Under communism, it's the reverse.

I just think it's ironic that someone who is so pro capitalist earns their living in the at least somewhat socialist sector of our economy. See my tagline for an explanation..

It does occur to me to wonder if you were out there in the capitalist system yourself you might not think it was quite so great. I grew up in a family business and have been self employed for most of my life and I can tell you that it's damn tough to make it without the support of a large organization.

But there are a lot of us out here who don't play the kind of games necessary in the corporate world very well.

paulsby  (1000+ posts)      Fri Oct-23-09 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #17
 
19. you may find it ironic

i don't have any problem with that.

like i said, i AM out there in the capitalist system. i am trading futures and stocks nearly every day. i am in the very heart of the capitalist beast, to chicago board of trade, the nasdaq, the NYSE etc.

i don't enjoy corporate games either. my job is great for individualists, self starters, self motivators, etc. i would hate to be in a cubicle. heck, i didn;t like detective work at all. it;'s like being an armed secretary most of the time

Fumesucker  (1000+ posts)        Fri Oct-23-09 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #19
 
23. "Like being an armed secretary most of the time."

That's funny!

And I can see how it's true, which is why it's funny.

paulsby  (1000+ posts)      Fri Oct-23-09 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #23
 
28. yea

tv makes it look very different than it actually is.

i did enjoy working undercover, for my former agency, but there are VERY few agencies that still do "deep undercover" type assignment, and you can't work in an area where you are KNOWN. that was great for a single guy, but way to gnarly even if my agency had a deep undercover program. even the DEA and FBI very rarely use it. just too dangerous.

i had to work precinct detectives at one point when i got injured, and i could not stand it. it is exactly like any other office job. you have this mound of cases to followup on, limited resources, limited time, etc.

the sad reality is that plenty of solvable cases never get followed up, simply because there is not enough personnel to justify the hours it would take ot clear them. stuff like car prowls, thefts, just don't get much if ANY attention.

being on the streets is VERY anti-corporate. i can go days without even seeing a supervisor. at some calls, they might show up, but not frequently.

i dislike authority (which is ironic but very par for the course for cops), and heavily structured environments.

rocktivity  (1000+ posts)        Thu Oct-22-09 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
 
9. Capitalism is not the problem

UNREGULATED capitalism is the problem.

paulsby  (1000+ posts)      Thu Oct-22-09 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
 
15. not quite

poorly regulated capitalism is.

we are not, and never have been UNregulated. some nations are far LESS regulated than we are.

Ardent15 (771 posts)        Thu Oct-22-09 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
 
11. A mixed ecomony is our best hope 

Too much of either extreme is bad.

paulsby  (1000+ posts)      Thu Oct-22-09 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #11

16. not sure what you mean

i believe in welfare, public education, etc. none of those are inconsistent with capitalism.

if by mixed, you mean NOT laissez faire capitalism, then i agre

AllentownJake  (1000+ posts)        Thu Oct-22-09 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
 
4. I've live through 4 recessions

During the first one Bethlehem Steel closed that was when I was about 6.

During the second one all the business on Hamilton Street (the center of the community) in Allentown closed that was when I was 14.

During the third one my Dad's plant where he was a managing engineer for 33 years closed (that was the old Western Electric that became AT&T that became Lucent) I was 21

During this fourth one, I've seen a good portion of the distribution centers in my town close out in the suburbs.

All I can say each recession has been murder on my hometown in someway and the businesses that replaced them...they didn't exactly provide the opportunities that the previous ones offered.

So spare me the wonders of Capitalism...at least in my community.

paulsby  (1000+ posts)      Thu Oct-22-09 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
 
6. not all communities have prospered

that much is certainly true.

AllentownJake  (1000+ posts)        Thu Oct-22-09 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
 
7. Most haven't

New York and the suburbs of DC seem to be booming....YAY!

AdHocSolver  (1000+ posts)      Fri Oct-23-09 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
 
22. You might be correct if the U.S. still had a capitalist economy, but it doesn't.

The U.S. economy, in fact, much of the world's economy, is controlled by a system of corporate cartels which manipulate resources and production to a degree never seen before in history.

This system was implemented and is maintained by means of trade and financial agreements such as NAFTA, the WTO, the World Bank, and the IMF, as well as a patent system that prevents competition and innovation, in order to maintain control and enable the huge profits of the major players.

The corporatists use terms such as "global economy" and "free trade" to imply competition, but, in fact, there is no competition as the cartels have an iron grip on the world's economies and there is no "free trade".

Manifestor_of_Light  (1000+ posts)        Fri Oct-23-09 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
 
21. the ruling class is immoral for throwing away the well educated and skilled.

Fumesucker  (1000+ posts)        Fri Oct-23-09 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #21

24. No, they're immoral for not giving a **** about any of the rest of us..

Well educated and skilled or uneducated and unskilled, we all deserve a decent chance and the ruling class is taking those chances away from all of us.

I can understand why someone wouldn't want to hire a person who is educated and skilled far beyond the job they are applying for, I don't necessarily agree with it but I understand it.

The nemesis of the bitter old Vermontese cali primitive:

Hannah Bell  (1000+ posts)        Fri Oct-23-09 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #21
 
25. not for throwing away the poorly educated & unskilled?

optimator (19 posts)      Fri Oct-23-09 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
 
27. why do humans even have societies and what do we do when there are no benefits to a society anymore?

I say it is time to make a new society

moondust  (1000+ posts)      Fri Oct-23-09 04:43 AM
Response to Original message
 
29. Not your average recession.

I tend to think this is more of a step down onto a lower plateau on the path to third world status with a lower quality of life and chronically high unemployment/underemployment that could last a long time. It could be difficult to convince people to get out and spend freely with so many decent paying jobs moved offshore and the long lines at employment offices persisting. Without spending things can slow to a crawl. Fat cats who have all the money also have all the refrigerators they need. Don't count on them to buy a truckload of new refrigerators to maintain the jobs that go into making and distributing them.

Republicans will naturally blame Obama and Democrats for everything even though they inherited a situation that has been in the making for 30 years as a result of the mostly Republican "free market" religion of Greed that has pushed for offshoring millions of jobs to slave labor markets and concentrated wealth in the hands of a few.

I'd love to be wrong.

But I thought Bo was supposed to have all of this taken care of by 11:01 a.m. January 20, 2009; the primitives promised us he would.

Finally, at the end, a primitive returns the bonfire to its original topic, but the bonfire goes out.

quaker bill (1000+ posts)      Fri Oct-23-09 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
 
33. I have done this over and over again

I hire the person best suited to the job I have to fill. Many times that person may have fewer qualifications on paper than some of the other applicants. I do not do this to save money, as the pay is the same in either case. I do it because the best fitting candidate will be easier to manage because they feel suited to the work and interested in doing it well. Folks who do the work well, reflect well on me as a manager, and build opportunities for their own advancement in the profession. It forms a healthy social dynamic, so my folks actually like working for me and find it difficult to leave, even for a promotion (though in most cases, they do get over it).

Other supervisors in my office will on occasion hire the most qualified and even over-qualified on paper. Often, but not always, these folks have a sour attitude because they feel the job is beneath them, they do not enjoy the work and do not do it very well. They expect a promotion consistent with their resume but perform so poorly in their current station, that they are passed over when opportunities arise, which only compounds the problem. In general the sour disposition drags most the group down toward lower levels of performance. They become high maintenance management challenges. As a manager, I have sufficient challenges everyday and never feel a need to add to them.

On occasion, I do get hundreds of qualified applications for an open position. I am not aware of how many more "unqualified" applications are received, as I do not see them. While I do read them all and consider them carefully, I will only interview 5 to perhaps 8 candidates. The candidate with the best performance at the interview generally gets the job. The jobs I have on offer are technical/scientific but involve working directly with the public, so the ability to present oneself well is critical to success, so interview performance is the best measure of suitablity to the job.

I have found that technical skills can be taught, but the ability to engage and persuade is more innate to the individual and all but impossible to teach.

[GOBUCKS]

The DUmp is a message board for the unskilled and unqualified, who dimly perceive, through a fog of alcohol or controlled substance, that other people are more comfortable than themselves. They are that segment of the unskilled and unqualified who channel their frustration at their plight into hatred for the prosperous and for the systems that enable their prosperity. Their diminished energies go into hatred rather than efforts to improve their situation.  That segment of unskilled and unqualified human flotsam has always existed. The are the reason for the democrat party. I'd suggest that had Algore invented the internet a hundred years ago, message boards for losers during WWI, during the New Deal depression, during WWII, during the post-war  boom, and during the Reagan American Renaissance would have sounded just like the DUmp. Maybe with less profanity, since people in general were more civilized, but with the same poisonous attitude.

[DumbAss Tanker]

DUmmieland expounds on Capitalism.  The economic theory equivalent of "Seven Blind Scholars and the Elephant."

[The Village Idiot]

Most of them don't even know what capitalism is.

Half those stupid derivative swap things wouldn't even exist if government
regulations hadn't encouraged them by closing off other investment avenues.

They want stuff for nothing, they know nothing beyond that.