primitive hating on the military and America

[USA4ME]

seafan
 
Seymour Hersh: Army is “in a war against the White House — and they feel they have Obama boxed in.” 

Military waging war with White House

By Neil Offen
October 14, 2009

DURHAM — The U.S. military is not just fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, America’s most renowned investigative journalist says.
The army is also “in a war against the White House — and they feel they have Obama boxed in,” Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter Seymour Hersh told several hundred people in Duke University’s Page Auditorium on Tuesday night. “They think he’s weak and the wrong color. Yes, there’s racism in the Pentagon. We may not like to think that, but it’s true and we all know it.”

In a speech on Obama’s foreign policy, Hersh, who uncovered the My Lai massacre during the Vietnam War and torture at Abu Ghraib prison during the Iraqi war, said many military leaders want Obama to fail.

“A lot of people in the Pentagon would like to see him get into trouble,” he said. By leaking information that the commanding officer in Afghanistan, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, says the war would be lost without an additional 40,000 American troops, top brass have put Obama in a no-win situation, Hersh contended.
“If he gives them the extra troops they’re asking for, he loses politically,” Hersh said. “And if he doesn’t give them the troops, he also loses politically.”

The journalist criticized the president for “letting the military do that,” and suggested the only way out was for Obama to stand up to them.
“He’s either going to let the Pentagon run him or he has to run the Pentagon,” Hersh said. If he doesn’t, “this stuff is going to be the ruin of his presidency.”

Hersh called the “Af-Pak” situation — the spreading conflict in Afghanistan and Pakistan — Obama’s main challenge.
The only way for the U.S. to extricate itself from the conflict, Hersh said, is to negotiate with the Taliban.

“It’s the only way out,” he said. “I know that there’s a lot of discussion in the White House about this now.

.....


It appears that certain elements of our military are still operating on Bush's directives to use Special Forces to foment pockets of chaos in Iran, with the aim of spreading it.

From July, 2008: (with a hat tip to DU'er tekisui)

In an interview with NPR on his latest New Yorker Article, titled ‘Preparing the battlefield’, the renowned investigative journalist Seymour Hersh reveals more striking details of his findings on the aim of the $400 million budgeted US covert operations inside Iran. He provides valuable information on US military preparations to strike the country, on the total expansion of the Bush Administration’s executive power, about the US recognition of Iran’s overall positive role in Iraq and on the US support for the anti-Iran terrorist organisations Jondollah, PJAK and MEK.

Hersh explains that the aim of the US covert operations inside Iran is to create a pretext for attack with the goal of regime change. “The strategic thinking behind this covert operation is to provoke enough trouble and chaos so that the Iranian government makes the mistake of taking aggressive action which will give the impression of a country in acute turmoil”, he said. “Then you have what the White House calls the ‘casus belli’, a reason to attack the country. That is the thinking and it is very crazy.”

On Iran’s role in Iraq, Hersh points out: “There is absolutely no clear evidence known to the American government that the Iranian leadership has any interest in provoking trouble with the United States in Iraq by sending in people to cause mayhem or kill Americans. There is just no evidence for it.” He continues further on: “Frankly, the guys I know in the inside– in the Special Forces, high up in DoD, high up in the intelligence community–if you push them hard enough, they tell you that Iran has been more of a force for stability in Iraq than negative”.

Hersh comments that the decision to launch these covert operations was prompted by the 2007 National Intelligence Estimate’s verdict that Iran does not have a nuclear weapons programme and that the approval by the US Congress leadership of the $400 million budget for the operations “is totally an expansion” of the executive powers of the Bush Administration.

He explains how the Bush Administration’s policy of “my enemy’s enemy is my friend” has led the US to support the Baluchi organisation Jondollah and the MEK (Mujahideen-e-Khalq a.k.a PMOI), both of which have clear track records of terrorist activities including against the US. He reiterates that the US has been giving arms and cash to the terrorists in the MEK for years and reveals that “most of the leaders have been taking our money and cashing it in an awful lot of bank accounts in London.” He also reveals for the first time that the US has trained MEK teams in the state of Nevada and that “they do a lot of crazy stuff inside Iran”.

Hersh warns that “we have been moving cruise missiles there for a few months now”, and that the US military is ready. “Our submarines are there, our destroyers are there with cruise missiles aboard, our aircrafts are there, our soldiers are there” to attack Iran within “10 to 12 hours” of the go-ahead order by President Bush, he says, stressing that troops have to go on the ground in Iran in order to destroy Iran’s defensive systems.

He finally points out that Bush “is going to be a very active president, I am afraid, until 11:59:59 seconds on January 20, 2009” and raises the alarm about an “October surprise”, a military attack on Iran, in particular if Obama continues to have a lead in the polls.

...........


We've seen this movie before.

Bush 'tried to lure Saddam into war using UN aircraft' . February 3, 2006

PRESIDENT BUSH had plans to lure Saddam Hussein into war by flying an aircraft over Iraq painted in UN colours in the hope he would shoot it down, a book reveals.

Mr Bush told Tony Blair of the extraordinary plan during a meeting in the White House on January 31, 2003, six weeks before the war started, according to an updated version of Lawless World by Philippe Sands, a human rights lawyer. He says the President made it clear that he had already decided to go to war, despite still pressing for a UN resolution.

“The US was thinking of flying U2 reconnaissance aircraft with fighter cover over Iraq, painted in UN colours. If Saddam fired on them, he would be in breach,” the book reports Mr Bush telling Mr Blair at the meeting.

.....

US-IRAQ: Generals Seek to Reverse Obama Withdrawal Decision

By Gareth Porter
February 2, 2009

WASHINGTON, Feb 2 (IPS) - CENTCOM commander Gen. David Petraeus, supported by Defence Secretary Robert Gates, tried to convince President Barack Obama that he had to back down from his campaign pledge to withdraw all U.S. combat troops from Iraq within 16 months at an Oval Office meeting Jan. 21.

But Obama informed Gates, Petraeus and Joint Chiefs Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen that he wasn't convinced and that he wanted Gates and the military leaders to come back quickly with a detailed 16-month plan, according to two sources who have talked with participants in the meeting.

Obama's decision to override Petraeus's recommendation has not ended the conflict between the president and senior military officers over troop withdrawal, however. There are indications that Petraeus and his allies in the military and the Pentagon, including Gen. Ray Odierno, now the top commander in Iraq, have already begun to try to pressure Obama to change his withdrawal policy.

A network of senior military officers is also reported to be preparing to support Petraeus and Odierno by mobilising public opinion against Obama's decision.

Petraeus was visibly unhappy when he left the Oval Office, according to one of the sources. A White House staffer present at the meeting was quoted by the source as saying, "Petraeus made the mistake of thinking he was still dealing with George Bush instead of with Barack Obama."

Petraeus, Gates and Odierno had hoped to sell Obama on a plan that they formulated in the final months of the Bush administration that aimed at getting around a key provision of the U.S.-Iraqi withdrawal agreement signed envisioned re-categorising large numbers of combat troops as support troops. That subterfuge was by the United States last November while ostensibly allowing Obama to deliver on his campaign promise.

.....

Mr. President, Bush and Cheney's "leave-behinds" at the Pentagon continue to destabilize the world.

"Asia and the MidEast don’t want to finance America’s wars any more."---- Max Keiser

".... The dollar reserve currency status gives the US an incredible leverage in financing wars that they don’t have to pay for. China, Russia and Iran are paying for America’s wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and possibly Iran. There’s no strategic or philosophical reason they are making these wars other than the war industry in America controls the White House. Obama works for the war industry. And they need these wars to stay profitable. This is why China, Russia, etc are saying, wait a minute!

We don’t want to watch as America, with their huge debts and horrible economy, and the only way they can extricate themselves is to go into countries and commit genocide as in Iraq or support rogue states in the ME , and I think the timetable is going to happen a lot quicker than what Robert Fiske is suggesting---2018. It’s going to happen a lot quicker ....."

If our president does not stand up to this military, the world will.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6811309

jwirr

14. Here we see the real enemy of our nation - once again the enemy within - the military industrial organization - the military and the corporations. POWER.

He is one man - God be with him. Do any of you know how to overcome this mess?

MilesColtrane
Response to Reply #14

37. I'd start by reassigning McChrystal.

That was a punk move by him. Obama needs to let those boys know that he's in charge.

bjobotts
Response to Reply #37

46, 47 & 48. Have you seen him, heard him talk? He's an asshole, bitter and dictatorial.
 
He should be replaced on principle.These are not zealots but patriots fighting invaders.
 
It's their home and they will never stop fighting till we leave as occupiers.

Our military are invaders.  heard that before.

Here, you current and former military types will like these.

RedCloud

40. Line up those who oppose their President and shoot them. Pre Pinochet thinking here.

Their job is to do or die, not to become the Pentagon Propaganda machine.

greengestalt

51. How 'bout using force?

President to General: "We are withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan immediately."
General to President: "We can't do that... b-sh-t about terrorists... insane "left behind" garbage..."

President to adviser in full earshot of General: "Uh, I don't know their ranking system that well, but why is that PRIVATE trying to tell me the whole army won't do what it's commander in chief wants, or have I misheard and it's a General telling me the troops will run so fast a ton of dust will be sucked into the Red Sea?"

And I'd just PURGE the NeoCON and "Dominionist" plants overnight. All of them, dishonorably discharged, no leave, no pay, no medical, no disability. I'd have the media, on threat of "Abuse of the Patriot act" quickly throw together made for TV movies that show them as child raping, "Non-Christian troop" fragging, psychopathic Nazis and take a few (quite a few, actually) examples of them harassing and threatening other troops and make sure those are played to 'balance' if they ever manage to get on the news about that. That way they'd be a huge burden on the "Religious Right", while the rest of the real army could be repaired and mobilized for peaceful (non-armed) civilian public works projects.

I'd want to cut defense spending by 2/3, with 1/3 going to paying the debt, 1/3 to infrastructure. Laid off troops would become public servants in the new mass-transit systems. Due to all the enemies America has earned we'd need a small but still top trained army and a small nuclear 'deterrent', and sadly that would be the remaining 1/3. Basically, enough to defend the homeland, launch a limited "Precision Strike" if we decide to and the "MAD" option but in a smaller state.

Too much to bring over.

.

[IassaFTots]

Obama needs to let those boys know that he's in charge.

There is just something about this quote that made me throw up in my mouth. 

[thundley4]

For 8 years plus our intelligence agencies have been at war with certain members of congress. Let's not forget that it was also congress critters that had to have leaked other information about military ops, too.

[franksolich]

There is just something about this quote that made me throw up in my mouth. 

Bo ain't in charge of this life.

No way.

[NHSparky]

Define "irony"--the fact that had Hersh protested WWI and WWII the way he does these wars, he'd have been imprisoned for seditious acts.

BTW--weren't both of those presidents DEMOCRATS?

[Carl]

greengestalt

51. How 'bout using force?

President to General: "We are withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan immediately."
General to President: "We can't do that... b-sh-t about terrorists... insane "left behind" garbage..."

President to adviser in full earshot of General: "Uh, I don't know their ranking system that well, but why is that PRIVATE trying to tell me the whole army won't do what it's commander in chief wants, or have I misheard and it's a General telling me the troops will run so fast a ton of dust will be sucked into the Red Sea?"

And I'd just PURGE the NeoCON and "Dominionist" plants overnight. All of them, dishonorably discharged, no leave, no pay, no medical, no disability. I'd have the media, on threat of "Abuse of the Patriot act" quickly throw together made for TV movies that show them as child raping, "Non-Christian troop" fragging, psychopathic Nazis and take a few (quite a few, actually) examples of them harassing and threatening other troops and make sure those are played to 'balance' if they ever manage to get on the news about that. That way they'd be a huge burden on the "Religious Right", while the rest of the real army could be repaired and mobilized for peaceful (non-armed) civilian public works projects.

I'd want to cut defense spending by 2/3, with 1/3 going to paying the debt, 1/3 to infrastructure. Laid off troops would become public servants in the new mass-transit systems. Due to all the enemies America has earned we'd need a small but still top trained army and a small nuclear 'deterrent', and sadly that would be the remaining 1/3. Basically, enough to defend the homeland, launch a limited "Precision Strike" if we decide to and the "MAD" option but in a smaller state.

Tell me again DUmmies who the facists are?

[dandi]

greengestalt

51. How 'bout using force?

President to General: "We are withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan immediately."
General to President: "We can't do that... b-sh-t about terrorists... insane "left behind" garbage..."

President to adviser in full earshot of General: "Uh, I don't know their ranking system that well, but why is that PRIVATE trying to tell me the whole army won't do what it's commander in chief wants, or have I misheard and it's a General telling me the troops will run so fast a ton of dust will be sucked into the Red Sea?"

And I'd just PURGE the NeoCON and "Dominionist" plants overnight. All of them, dishonorably discharged, no leave, no pay, no medical, no disability. I'd have the media, on threat of "Abuse of the Patriot act" quickly throw together made for TV movies that show them as child raping, "Non-Christian troop" fragging, psychopathic Nazis and take a few (quite a few, actually) examples of them harassing and threatening other troops and make sure those are played to 'balance' if they ever manage to get on the news about that. That way they'd be a huge burden on the "Religious Right", while the rest of the real army could be repaired and mobilized for peaceful (non-armed) civilian public works projects.

I'd want to cut defense spending by 2/3, with 1/3 going to paying the debt, 1/3 to infrastructure. Laid off troops would become public servants in the new mass-transit systems. Due to all the enemies America has earned we'd need a small but still top trained army and a small nuclear 'deterrent', and sadly that would be the remaining 1/3. Basically, enough to defend the homeland, launch a limited "Precision Strike" if we decide to and the "MAD" option but in a smaller state.

Scratch a leftist, find a fascist.  Every ****ing time.....

[delilahmused]

Sometimes these people just make me sad. McChrystal (appointed by 0) has devoted his life to serving his country, no less dedicated to serving than the teacher who loves children. People may go into the military for many different reasons but they stay because they want to serve their country. Leaders are supposed to LEAD. The fact that 0bama can't speaks volumes about his inexperience and timidity. We have a CinC who is more comfortable going to war with a news station than fighting a war he campaigned on.

Cindie

[thundley4]

Sometimes these people just make me sad. McChrystal (appointed by 0) has devoted his life to serving his country, no less dedicated to serving than the teacher who loves children. People may go into the military for many different reasons but they stay because they want to serve their country. Leaders are supposed to LEAD. The fact that 0bama can't speaks volumes about his inexperience and timidity. We have a CinC who is more comfortable going to war with a news station than fighting a war he campaigned on.

Cindie

0Bama is caught between Iraq and a hard place.  If he sends more troops to Afghanistan as he promised, then the left will say that he's a warmonger, and is appeasing the right. If he does anything less than send more troops, it will be another broken promise, and will lead ultimately to losing the "good war" , as he called it, and more deaths of our troops. As for Iraq, he is still pretty much following the timetable negotiated under President Bush, no big changes there either. 

[delilahmused]

0Bama is caught between Iraq and a hard place.  If he sends more troops to Afghanistan as he promised, then the left will say that he's a warmonger, and is appeasing the right. If he does anything less than send more troops, it will be another broken promise, and will lead ultimately to losing the "good war" , as he called it, and more deaths of our troops. As for Iraq, he is still pretty much following the timetable negotiated under President Bush, no big changes there either.  

A good leader does what's right not what's politically expedient. He has soldiers and Marines in a war zone working under an impossible ROE dying every day fighting a war HE supposedly believes in and they're asking for support. That he would care more about the nuts on the left than troops he commands being shot at tells you everything you need to know about him. Love him or hate him, at least Bush had the balls to do what he believed was right, damn the political consequences. I'm just sick about all this and can't imagine the country, let alone the military, surviving for 3 more years.

Cindie

[TheSarge]

0Bama is caught between Iraq and a hard place.  If he sends more troops to Afghanistan as he promised, then the left will say that he's a warmonger, and is appeasing the right.

Which is why he's delayed a decision until he knew he wouldn't have to.  Winter is setting in real good in that part of the world which means the attacks will all but stop thus delaying his having to make a "tough" decision.

[TheSarge]

America’s most renowned investigative journalist says.

More like America's most renowned bullsh*t artist says

[AllosaursRus]

Some wanta 'splain to me why that asshat Hersh is not in the stockade? ****in' traitor!

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Wetzelbill (1000+ posts)        Tue Oct-20-09 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
50. They [the military] flat refused to snatch terrorists when Clinton was president 
 They did it several times. I think even The Weekly Standard wrote about that before. Richard Clarke discusses this in his book, Against All Enemies. There are people in the military status quo who will go along with any harebrained GOP scheme yet fight tooth and nail against anything that a Dem president wants. That's just how it is. 

What?!?!?

We're supposed to believe that Clinton ordered UBL arrested and the military refused? This doesn't even make sense.

2Design  (1000+ posts)      Tue Oct-20-09 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
65. without the military complex - we have no jobs - no industry - many 
 people working for the military directly or indirectly want wars to have jobs and BENEFITS

Government stimulus dollars! That's what I'm talking about, baby!

quiet.american  (1000+ posts)      Tue Oct-20-09 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
66. Bush sent thousands of their buddies to their deaths based on lies & *now* they want to revolt?
 It's a mad, mad, mad world.

OR...

...you're a retard that has totally misread every last scintilla of the situation.

Piewhacket (1000+ posts)        Tue Oct-20-09 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
67. Obama hemmed in? What a steaming pile of republican chickenpoop!   
 Edited on Tue Oct-20-09 02:04 PM by Piewhacket
Obama has at least two OTHER viable options.

One: Ignore McCandyass and do what needs done, and if it is
not what McCandyass recommended, replace McCandyass and get someone else
to impliment it. Every Pres should have a backup general anyway.

Two: Replace McCandyass, do what's needed with someone else.

Three. Discipline McCandyass for his ill-advised remarks, which are
not so different from what Patton did during wwII. Also discipline
him for allowing his report to be leaked before the President saw it.
Discipline should have both private and public parts.

McCandyass is definitely on probation. Now he needs to be an amazing
general from here on out.

That general was SpecOps back in the day when SpecOps was a career-ender for officers AND he had to earn the respect of every last operator on his team before he would be allowed to hold rank over them.

Who are you to call him a candy-ass when your own worthless ass wouldn't walk in a summer drizzling rain to buy more Cheetos?

 

winyanstaz  (1000+ posts)      Tue Oct-20-09 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
89. As Obama is the Commander - in -Chief of the army...
 it is treason for the generals to be at "war" with him.
He needs to fire a couple of asses there and things would straighten right out.

Treason is a crime against the US.

When did Obama become the US?

Crowman1979 (1000+ posts)      Wed Oct-21-09 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
108. How about repealing DADT?
 The christo-fundie facist brass will leave the pentagon like rats from a sinking ship!

Gaffe (gaf) - noun - when a liberal accidently tells the truth

[dandi]

We have a CinC who is more comfortable going to war with a news station than fighting a war he campaigned on.

Cindie

That's a keeper.

[TheSarge]

We're supposed to believe that Clinton ordered UBL arrested and the military refused? This doesn't even make sense.

Actually the opposite was true.  The CIA and others were begging for permission to take him out and the WH wouldn't sign off.

[BlueStateSaint]

Actually the opposite was true.  The CIA and others were begging for permission to take him out and the WH wouldn't sign off.

Beat me to it . . .

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Actually the opposite was true.  The CIA and others were begging for permission to take him out and the WH wouldn't sign off.

I know what the truth is...it's the blatant and irrational degree of spin that beggars the imagination. I'm trying to figure out how's plausible in its own context.

[Doombot]

greengestalt

51. How 'bout using force?

President to General: "We are withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan immediately."
General to President: "We can't do that... b-sh-t about terrorists... insane "left behind" garbage..."

President to adviser in full earshot of General: "Uh, I don't know their ranking system that well, but why is that PRIVATE trying to tell me the whole army won't do what it's commander in chief wants, or have I misheard and it's a General telling me the troops will run so fast a ton of dust will be sucked into the Red Sea?"

And I'd just PURGE the NeoCON and "Dominionist" plants overnight. All of them, dishonorably discharged, no leave, no pay, no medical, no disability. I'd have the media, on threat of "Abuse of the Patriot act" quickly throw together made for TV movies that show them as child raping, "Non-Christian troop" fragging, psychopathic Nazis and take a few (quite a few, actually) examples of them harassing and threatening other troops and make sure those are played to 'balance' if they ever manage to get on the news about that. That way they'd be a huge burden on the "Religious Right", while the rest of the real army could be repaired and mobilized for peaceful (non-armed) civilian public works projects.

I'd want to cut defense spending by 2/3, with 1/3 going to paying the debt, 1/3 to infrastructure. Laid off troops would become public servants in the new mass-transit systems. Due to all the enemies America has earned we'd need a small but still top trained army and a small nuclear 'deterrent', and sadly that would be the remaining 1/3. Basically, enough to defend the homeland, launch a limited "Precision Strike" if we decide to and the "MAD" option but in a smaller state.

Ah yes. once again a DUmmy reveals his Inner Stalin.

[TheSarge]

And I'd just PURGE the NeoCON and "Dominionist" plants overnight. All of them, dishonorably discharged, no leave, no pay, no medical, no disability.

Yeah you do that genius.  How are you gonna defend the corders of the Continental U.S. much less our allies with a military that is suddenly smaller than Canada's?

I'd have the media, on threat of "Abuse of the Patriot act" quickly throw together made for TV movies that show them as child raping, "Non-Christian troop" fragging, psychopathic Nazis and take a few (quite a few, actually) examples of them harassing and threatening other troops and make sure those are played to 'balance' if they ever manage to get on the news about that.

Gee...how Leni Riefenstahl of you 

That way they'd be a huge burden on the "Religious Right"

Ummmm...ok whatever.

while the rest of the real army could be repaired and mobilized for peaceful (non-armed) civilian public works projects.

That's great.  Your plan for a better America is to have us collectively engage in grabbing our ankles in preparation of getting  by some country that wants to take us down a notch.

[franksolich]

Question.

while the rest of the real army could be repaired and mobilized for peaceful (non-armed) civilian public works projects.

Now, instead of wasting the vast talents of the armed forces on mundane construction work, why aren't the primitives mobilized for this?

I mean, how much trouble would it be, to train the subway cat to don one of those fluorescent orange vests, and pick up litter on the sidewalks of Baltimore?  How much trouble would it be, to train the bobbling primitive to clean buildings in preparation for renovation of those buildings, like removing the trash and the easily-removable fixtures?  How much trouble would it be, to train the pederast primitive to assemble shelves?  How much trouble would it be, to train the shadowy primitive, to pack up and ship STOP signs?  How much trouble would it be, to train the gigantic primitive to dig ditches--and besides the paycheck, he'd become fitter and trimmer from the labor, and so that's two, not just one, good things.

Using the military on public works is like using a brain surgeon to mow the grass.

Remember, it was John Kennedy who said, "ask not what America can do for the primitives, but ask what the primitives can do for America."  (Or something like that.)

[TheSarge]

Now, instead of wasting the vast talents of the armed forces on mundane construction work, why aren't the primitives mobilized for this?

Because the Primitives view themselves as the Great I Am...driving around in the fields in their clean white shirt ordering the rest of us around.

[ColonialMarine0431]

I'm not going to even waste my time responding to the primitives about this moronic thread they started.

[blitzkrieg_17]

Because the Primitives view themselves as the Great I Am...driving around in the fields in their clean white shirt ordering the rest of us around.

They suffer from delusions of adequacy.

[AllosaursRus]

Every once in a while these dipshits come up with something they should be exterminated for posting! This IS one of those times!

I know this comment is borderline, yet it's no worse than how they treated W.