Author Topic: W-4 (Read 5459 times)

Z123 · « **on:** October 16, 2009, 01:32:38 PM »

Hello,

As many Americans I am getting madder by the day at the direction this country is taking. It is not the country I grew up in, and certainly isn't the vision of the country I fought for in the Marine Corps. I watch and I read and just can't stand to sit buy and watch our ever growing government ignore us anymore. I had an idea of how to make a change the government would have to listen to. I'm sure I'm not the first one to think of this but thus far I haven't seen anyone talking about it. So here goes let me know what you think.

A Tea Party With Bite.

As with most of Americans when I fill out a W-4 for a job I file zero dependents.This allows my employer to take out the max with holding from my check and ensures that I don't owe anything at the end of the year. Meanwhile the government sits back collecting extra money collecting interest on that money and has money coming in all year long no worries for them, keep spending we'll keep sending. Well what if everyone who was so involved in the Tea Parties went to work on Jan 2nd 2010 and changed their dependents to at least 4 (knowing they are eventually going to have to pay that money in taxes set it aside in their own savings account). Now all year long a significant chunk of money isn't being sent to Washington every time you or I get a pay check. And lets just say that the Government can last with the funds recovered because they know the will get lump sum owed on April 15th. They may be able to last that long. But what happens when all of us file for a six month extension on April 15th. With enough support and enough people participating the rats in Washington would be forced to listen and realize we are no longer going to be ignored and they no longer have a blank check.

I am not advacting not paying taxes just sending a message to Washington that they can't ignore.

Just a thought..

Z

Thor · « **Reply #1 on:** October 16, 2009, 01:42:28 PM »

Since my retirement from the Navy, every job I've had I always kept the maximum amount of deductions on my W-4. It's been said to not allow the Govt to "borrow" your money for free. I'm thinking that this won't work because the Govt will keep spending regardless of their income from us peasants.

Z123 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 16, 2009, 01:49:58 PM »

When the bank closes ur account you can't keep spending. And at the rate the Government spends money even if 25% of America did this it would cause a crisis and a reason for them to listen and change. Listen to this 1980 debate between Regan and Bush on taxes. The last 10 seconds is brilliant!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edchtf9MS7g

docstew · « **Reply #3 on:** October 16, 2009, 01:53:12 PM »

The best single thing that could happen to the tax code in this country, short of throwing it out and going to the Fairtax, would be to outlaw withholding. Make John Q. Public write a check, rather than him going to H&R Blockheads or using TurboTax ("Who knew? I don't owe anything" - Tim Geithner), and getting a check back for the interest free loan, and they'll start to feel the pain. Withholding makes it painless, because you don't get the money in the first place. Taxes should be painful, they should feel like you've been mugged, because you have been. Your hard-earned money has been taken from you by threat of force. Then, and only then, would the congresscritters fear the people, as they should.

debk · « **Reply #4 on:** October 16, 2009, 02:23:54 PM »

You can go in to your HR or whoever handles the company's taxes and change your W-4...you don't have to wait for the beginning of a calendar year.

I think - but am not sure - that the date has past for you to have paid all your withholding taxes for the year. I think it's all done in the first 3 quarters even though the taxes are still taken out. What's being taken out now, is what is refunded if any is to be refunded.

The max used to be 10, because I have done it.....I have no idea what it is now.

Z123 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 16, 2009, 02:44:20 PM »

The only reason I thought of waiting till 2010 is it would have a bigger impact a whole year without receiving funds rather than the last few months of this year. I know you can change ur W-4 anytime. And I think most employers withhold the money from your check and pay it to the Government on your behalf quarterly. Would need someone who is more familiar to comment on this.

debk · « **Reply #6 on:** October 16, 2009, 02:53:37 PM »

Quote from: Z123 on October 16, 2009, 02:44:20 PM

The only reason I thought of waiting till 2010 is it would have a bigger impact a whole year without receiving funds rather than the last few months of this year. I know you can change ur W-4 anytime. And I think most employers withhold the money from your check and pay it to the Government on your behalf quarterly. Would need someone who is more familiar to comment on this.

Taxes paid to the government are paid whenever paychecks are issued...there are a certain amount of days grace...like one or two.

My other half owned a business for years. His employees were paid weekly on Friday. The autodraft to the IRS was paid on Tuesday, based on what was submitted(the accurateamount) by the office manager on Friday.

Failure to pay the government on a specified schedule results in government shutting down the business....it's not something a responsible employer screws around with.

You are thinking of quarterly taxes that have to be paid. Those are estimated taxes that will be owed at the end of the year. The government likes to get money that they have expectations of receiving paid into them on a regular basis. Doesn't matter if any of it's going to get refunded...they get the interest in the meantime.

I am an independent contractor and am supposed to pay quarterly taxes to the IRS based on my last year's income. If I don't pay them....which I don't....I get a penalty. The penalty, up until recently when interest rates tanked, has been less than the interest that I make by keeping the money in my account. I'm not into letting Uncle Sam hold my money in his savings account and collecting the interest.

Z123 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 16, 2009, 03:03:29 PM »

Quote from: debk on October 16, 2009, 02:53:37 PM

Taxes paid to the government are paid whenever paychecks are issued...there are a certain amount of days grace...like one or two.

My other half owned a business for years. His employees were paid weekly on Friday. The autodraft to the IRS was paid on Tuesday, based on what was submitted(the accurateamount) by the office manager on Friday.

Failure to pay the government on a specified schedule results in government shutting down the business....it's not something a responsible employer screws around with.

But the amount that is paid by autodraft is based on the employees W-4 correct? So if a employee raised their number of Dependants that would mean a smaller amount would be sent to the Government? So if this is true and enough people started doing this it would make an impact right?

debk · « **Reply #8 on:** October 16, 2009, 03:11:40 PM »

Quote from: Z123 on October 16, 2009, 03:03:29 PM

But the amount that is paid by autodraft is based on the employees W-4 correct? So if a employee raised their number of Dependants that would mean a smaller amount would be sent to the Government? So if this is true and enough people started doing this it would make an impact right?

Absolutely it would make a difference....but it would take an awful lot of people doing it for the government to figure out it was being done.

Unless a large percentage of a company's employees started doing it....enough to "flag" an account...it probably wouldn't be noticed. If noticed, the government would investigate. As long as the company has a W-4 on file that matches with the deduction for that employee...nothing can be done.

The government is already being affected in the IRS wallet due to so many layoffs around the country. The tax coffers are lower than they were a year ago at this time. Which in turn reduces the amount of money the government has to ~~spend~~ budget.

Though it doesn't seem to be affecting Obama's travel budget....

Z123 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 16, 2009, 03:20:13 PM »

Well it seems fairly simple. Not alot of effort from the average hard working American to make a change. If you could simply get the same number of people who were involved in the Tea Party movement involved that would be a significant number of people.

debk · « **Reply #10 on:** October 16, 2009, 03:28:51 PM »

Quote from: Z123 on October 16, 2009, 03:20:13 PM

Well it seems fairly simple. Not alot of effort from the average hard working American to make a change. If you could simply get the same number of people who were involved in the Tea Party movement involved that would be a significant number of people.

It would be simple....if you could get people to do it.

The problem would be....if you advocate doing it.....you need to be prepared for the consequences.

The main consequence? Having the money to pay the IRS the amount of money in one lump sum when you file your taxes, unless you could get on a payment plan for paying them. The IRS decides whether or not to allow you to do that....it's not a decision you can just make on your own.

Human nature being what it is....the majority may not save the money or have it readily at hand to pay the IRS.

Then human nature being what it is....someone will find a lawyer who will sue and so forth and so on.

Participating in the Tea Party movement did not have any personal, individual financial consequences.

Z123 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 16, 2009, 03:37:53 PM »

Absolutely...

There is also the problem of Joe The Plumber. Whoever was the face of this would be a target of the Left.

But no risk no reward. I'm not really the get involved type, but I see the way all of this is going and I know that if I don't stand up and get involved and do something nothing will change except the County I Love.

So this is the decision for all of us even me. Will I stand up and get involved or will I just wait till it's to late and have to explain to my grandkids what it used to be like to live in a free America.

debk · « **Reply #12 on:** October 16, 2009, 03:40:52 PM »

Quote from: Z123 on October 16, 2009, 03:37:53 PM

Absolutely...

There is also the problem of Joe The Plumber. Whoever was the face of this would be a target of the Left.

But no risk no reward. I'm not really the get involved type, but I see the way all of this is going and I know that if I don't stand up and get involved and do something nothing will change except the County I Love.

So this is the decision for all of us even me. Will I stand up and get involved or will I just wait till it's to late and have to explain to my grandkids what it used to be like to live in a free America.

I'm an independent contractor....so as far as this issue is concerned....I don't have a dog in it.

Z123 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 16, 2009, 03:49:35 PM »

But we all have a stake in the outcome.

Z123 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 16, 2009, 05:33:08 PM »

Well I'm off to hunting dove for the weekend with my scary gun...

Please keep this conversation alive. I'm willing to stand up and do something.. If not this something meaningful to stop our country from being taken over by Socialists.

Have a good weekend..

Z

debk · « **Reply #15 on:** October 16, 2009, 05:34:46 PM »

Quote from: Z123 on October 16, 2009, 03:49:35 PM

But we all have a stake in the outcome.

I'm already doing my part of your suggestion. I don't pay quarterlies...I take the penalty which is not an option, but mandatory.

I am not going to advise someone else to do the same. It's a personal choice and a financial choice that many people may not want to do.

debk · « **Reply #16 on:** October 16, 2009, 05:35:12 PM »

Good hunting to you and enjoy your weekend.

Poor · « **Reply #17 on:** October 16, 2009, 06:45:50 PM »

If the average U.S. Houshold income is around $50,000, I wonder what difference four more claimed dependants make... You get a million or so to apply the concept, and it would be enough to get some attention.

Z123 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 17, 2009, 05:37:45 PM »

I think any significant number would make a difference

vesta111 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 18, 2009, 07:31:45 AM »

There is the reverse ploy for those that fear a bank collapse, Asians I work with have somehow gotten a -004-5 - dependent so their taxes are taken out by 4-5 times the amount owed. This is a no interest loan to the government and come tax time they get a return of thousands of dollars that they use to travel home or buy big ticket goods.

They live on their paycheck or what is left of it after taxes and if there is anything left they buy GOLD jewelery that can be bartered or sold if they need to move on. I see toddlers at the Mall wearing more gold, bracelets, earrings, necklaces then I have ever seen before. Not just Asian but Muslim and people from poor country's know the value of being ready to jump country's when things get tough. These people are the survivors of despot nations and can live on beans and rice, little meat and some veggies ---Cost to feed a family of 6 each month around $200 bucks. Most are lactose intolerant so no cheese, or any dairy product.

They put Yankee Thrift to shame, they save to bring their family over here and everyone works a different shift. Everyone gets a small paycheck and come tax time the return is enough for the family to buy a new van or down payment on a home for 10 of them.

There are no child care expenses, the kids get their expensive toys, interesting life style.
To most of these people the idea of living in a big house with just two occupants is unnatural. When I told a coworker that my 86 year old mother lived in her home alone they backed off, how to explain that she wanted to live alone, so unnatural to their way of thinking.

As more and more people settle in America from other traditions, keep the family close and survive on a small pay check to reap a huge return at tax time, the Government will find they cannot handle the sudden surge of out going money. I and other Americans at work are starting to follow the ways of savings taught to us by these survivors. Can we live on a smaller pay check to get an extra $3,000 in return? This is forced savings you know, we know we will get it back and the idea of placing this money in savings at the interest rates payed by banks is so low, why bother.??

Z123 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 19, 2009, 12:35:17 AM »

Personally I have been prepairing for things getting worse. Storing food, buying gold and stocking up on ammo. I don't concider myself a wack-o waiting for the end, just want to be prepaired for the worst. You never no when a disaster could hit natural or otherwise.

Well I'm back from my weekend hunting and am ready to jump back into this.

First is anyone on here know or is a Tax Attorney? We need to get the practical legal side of this worked out.

Second is there anyone who is good with web design? We will need a place for people to go to get information on this grass roots W-4 movement.

Third is there anyone else willing to get involved?

vesta111 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 19, 2009, 03:20:56 AM »

Quote from: Z123 on October 19, 2009, 12:35:17 AM

Personally I have been prepairing for things getting worse. Storing food, buying gold and stocking up on ammo. I don't concider myself a wack-o waiting for the end, just want to be prepaired for the worst. You never no when a disaster could hit natural or otherwise.

Well I'm back from my weekend hunting and am ready to jump back into this.

First is anyone on here know or is a Tax Attorney? We need to get the practical legal side of this worked out.

Second is there anyone who is good with web design? We will need a place for people to go to get information on this grass roots W-4 movement.

Third is there anyone else willing to get involved?

If in fact worse comes to worse, are there laws against hording food in a time of crisis?

This can become very complicated especially if you are a Mormon and by church law must keep a years supply of food for each member of the family.

Gold is another problem if you buy from a suppler that stores the gold for you in their vaults.
Gold is very heavy in bar form, with all heck breaking out, trying to get to these vaults and transport the gold home can be impossible.

Gun safes can be bought for $500. all the way up into the thousands, if you buy one ounce gold coins they are reasonably safe, takes 5 men and a boy to move some of the bigger safes.

Strange but there is so much to buy in balk that is more important then gold, buying cheap Bic's in bulk to trade, [ with the stop smoking campaigns few people carry a lighter or matches on them. ] a few rolls of light plastic used to insulate windows, this can be traded by the yard to make rain ponchos or emergency shelter, duck tape, small tools at the dollar store. filters for water cleansing etc.

I seriously don't think outside of a natural disaster that we will anytime in the near future find we will need to defend ourselves from our neighbors unless we live in a big city.

Don't hurt to be prepared just in case.

docstew · « **Reply #22 on:** October 19, 2009, 04:35:42 AM »

Quote from: vesta111 on October 19, 2009, 03:20:56 AM

If in fact worse comes to worse, are there laws against hording food in a time of crisis?

This can become very complicated especially if you are a Mormon and by church law must keep a years supply of food for each member of the family.

Gold is another problem if you buy from a suppler that stores the gold for you in their vaults.
Gold is very heavy in bar form, with all heck breaking out, trying to get to these vaults and transport the gold home can be impossible.

Gun safes can be bought for $500. all the way up into the thousands, if you buy one ounce gold coins they are reasonably safe, takes 5 men and a boy to move some of the bigger safes.

Strange but there is so much to buy in balk that is more important then gold, buying cheap Bic's in bulk to trade, [ with the stop smoking campaigns few people carry a lighter or matches on them. ] a few rolls of light plastic used to insulate windows, this can be traded by the yard to make rain ponchos or emergency shelter, duck tape, small tools at the dollar store. filters for water cleansing etc.

I seriously don't think outside of a natural disaster that we will anytime in the near future find we will need to defend ourselves from our neighbors unless we live in a big city.

Don't hurt to be prepared just in case.

Proof that vesta may not be coherent, but at least isn't a DUmmy: nowhere on that list is toilet paper...

Z123 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 19, 2009, 06:14:08 PM »

Anyone think this is a plausible idea?

rich_t · « **Reply #24 on:** October 19, 2009, 06:51:12 PM »

Quote from: Z123 on October 19, 2009, 06:14:08 PM

Anyone think this is a plausible idea?

I don't.

News:

Author Topic: W-4 (Read 5459 times)