primitives lamenting their poverty

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6789478

Leftist Agitator (1000+ posts)      Fri Oct-16-09 02:36 AM
Original message

A lament of one of the working poor:

Why don't YOU, who are almost certainly better off than I, try to live on a minimum wage salary for a year or two?

You'd make $7.25 / hr and get about 35 hours a week of work. Some weeks more, most weeks less.

Thus, you'd get $253.75 per week. BEFORE taxes.

After, you'd get about $225. And that's an exceedingly optimistic estimate. More realistically, you could lop ten or so dollars off of that.

Multiplied by four, you're talikng about a whoppng $900 / month. Actually, a bit less.

How much is your rent or mortgage payment? Electricity? Natural Gas? Water? Sewage? Garbage?

How about your car insurance? And if you have it, health insurance? (though I have yet to find a minimum wage job that offers benefits).

If you own your home, homeowner's insurance, and if not, renter's insurance... How much are either of those?

How much is your grocery bill?

When was the last time that you got a flat, or needed a new air filter or oil filter or some damn thing for your car that cost a few (or several) dozen dollars?

So, when the only assistance offered by the state is a paltry sum in food stamps (i.e. $50 a month or less... certainly less if you're unmarried, young, reasonably healthy and childless, as am I), how in the hell are you supposed to pay for all for your obligations?

This is deliberately ignoring credit card debt and the like. I had to destroy my credit to survive. It was pay a credit card bill for food the previous month or eat this week. I chose to not starve.

Oh, and student loans. I have $80k worth. Those will never be paid back at this rate. Not until I find a well-paying position, which is less and less likely as the days wear on. Oh, and when I can't pay, they (the IRS) will take 25% of my salary until I've repaid my debt or am dead. My money (the paltry amount that I have) is on me being dead before I ever manage to pay that debt.

At $9.00 / hr (and I'm one of the lucky ones, all things considered) and about 30 hours a week, currently, I have just enough money to pay my bills. I have no car. I haven't bought a single article of new clothing for four years (including socks. I miss socks without holes in them...) I eat either beans and rice, ramen, or homemade unleavened bread or dumplings every single day. I'd make real bread, but there's nowhere in my neighborhood where I can buy yeast.

Once in a while I'll spring for a can of chicken noodle soup to break up the monotony and get a little more protein into my diet. 50 cents doesn't seem like anything, for a can of soup, but when you can get a few thousand more calories for the same money, 50 cents means the world to you.

The last time I was at Dollar General, they had cans of chili marked down to $1.00. I bought one. It was like eating ****ing caviar. I hadn't eaten meat (aside from the chicken in the soup) in months before then.

I'm rapidly running out of hot sauce, which is going to make my eight or ten meals per week of beans and rice that much more bland.

Which is a total bummer, but still eminently nutritious.

This is my life as one of the United States of America's working poor. May it never strike you down as it has me.

But I thought Bo was going to take care of all this last January.

FirstLight  (1000+ posts)        Fri Oct-16-09 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
 
1. I know, i know

i am a single mom with 3 kids and i know i do better than you..even though we are hanging on by a thread most days as well. I haven't had "credit" since I was in my 20's and rent with help from HUD...if not for certain programs and the help of my folks when things got really bad...I doubt we would have a roof over our heads or if my kids would even have shoes to wear!

and how do we got out from under this? we will probably never know...unless we join the revolution to overthrow all banks, corporations, etc...

Leftist Agitator (1000+ posts)      Fri Oct-16-09 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
 
2. "unless we join the revolution to overthrow all banks, corporations, etc... "

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

The silly primitive:

SoCalDem  (1000+ posts)        Fri Oct-16-09 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
 
13. and in a few years the problem will compound 

all the 20, 20 & 40 somethings who get help from their aging parents are removing income from them, that will be sorely missed when they get older and have to retire or are forced out of the labor market.

There is only ONE chance to "save for retirement", and that's the period after your kids are grown and you can finally concentrate on building a "nest egg". If that nest routinely gets the "eggs" given out , it will be of little help later, and when the parents need help from the kids who have little or nothing, everyone's standard of living sinks like a rock.

Parents will always help if they can, but often they do not see the problem of not saving for themselves, because when they age-out of the market, they will be the ones needing help, and it may not be there for them.

Leftist Agitator (1000+ posts)      Fri Oct-16-09 02:55 AM
Response to Original message
 
3. I would like it if people read this.

Hence the post.

hfojvt  (1000+ posts)        Fri Oct-16-09 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
 
4. I expect to make about $225 a week after insurance and retirement are taken out of my check.

But I only work about 20 hours a week at almost $14 an hour.

If my house was not paid for I probably would have to work full time, or cut out some of my luxuries.

Beans and rice is probably cheaper than my standard meal which is to mix a can of spaghettios into a cup of rice. I consider that a delicious meal, and it ought to be since it is chock full of sugar and salt.

If spaghetti sauce is on sale I will mix that with rice as well.

Ramen noodles are very high in fat and salt. This package here says it has 1660 milligrams of sodium and 14 grams of fat, including 7 grams of saturated fat. You are probably better off with plain pasta and hot sauce as long as you remember to rinse the pasta, and pasta is probably cheaper too.

If I had to, I could easily go without a phone or a car or the internet. I have for much of my life, but now I think life would suck without the internet.

But this is why I think it is important that the Democratic Congress did manage to raise the minimum wage. An accomplishment that is often poo-poohed on DU.

The wired gassy primitive, the "Canadian" on that farmette up over there in Wisconsin:

grasswire  (1000+ posts)      Fri Oct-16-09 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
 
5. I am so sorry to read your plight tonight.

So many of us are stuck in sad situations. Always remember -- it's not your fault. The system has betrayed you. It seems the only thing we can do is double up to share expenses and be in solidarity.

Three members of my family are unemployed; two of them have huge student debts just like you do. I'm living above a garage and eating out of a garden for free, until winter comes.

I'm not trying to match a sad story with your sad story. I just want you to know that you are not alone although maybe that doesn't help much. I would feed you if I could, friend, if you were not nearly a continent away.

Take care of yourself. We'll get through this.

madeline_con  (1000+ posts)        Fri Oct-16-09 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
 
6. You may be eligible for way more than you're receiving.

Medicaid, more food stamps, rent assistance, help with ulility bills, etc.

sandnsea  (1000+ posts)      Fri Oct-16-09 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
 
7. Hope you find something in your field soon

That's the only thing you've got going for you, that degree. Or at least I hope you were able to finish school. It really sucks when you have to quit half way through and have the student loan with no ability to get the job that goes with it.

You're not alone.

naaman fletcher (394 posts)      Fri Oct-16-09 03:08 AM
Response to Original message
 
8. Why?

"Why don't YOU, who are almost certainly better off than I, try to live on a minimum wage salary for a year or two?"

Why? It sucks. I know. That is why I worked hard for years and years to be more financially secure. I'm not saying this to be a dick. I have plenty of friends in your situation, but I don't understand why I am under some moral obligation to try living like you.

hfojvt  (1000+ posts)        Fri Oct-16-09 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
 
9. not everyone has walked a mile in those shoes

When Tommy Thompson was Duke of Wisconsin, he went to celebrate the opening of a factory in Eau Claire. Some people scoffed that the jobs at that new factory only paid $6 an hour. That was not a lot of money even in the mid 1990s (although I myself was making $5.40 an hour at a satellite dish factory.) In his speech, the Duke said "What's wrong with $6 an hour?" I suggested that the legislature pass a bill changing HIS salary to $6 an hour and he could have found out the answer to his question.

Still $6 an hour is better than no job at all, which was kind of the Duke's point, and I was doing okay at $5.40 even though I was living in my "son's" basement.

onestepforward  (811 posts)      Fri Oct-16-09 03:43 AM
Response to Original message

10. I hear you.

It is a huge struggle for so many people, including myself at times, just to get the basics in life. There is also the constant, low-lying emotional stress that comes with living life like this. It can wear you down on a daily basis. In addition, there is fear... of getting sick or injured (no health ins.) or even having a minor problem that could cost beyond what you have. It's a real bitch.

I hope things get better for you and all of the millions of our fellow citizens going through similar struggles. It will be a fight to get our government working once again, for the people vs. corporations, but we can all do it together.

shanejfilomena  (23 posts)      Fri Oct-16-09 04:19 AM
Response to Original message
 
11. I do

i eat once a day.I usually eat between two and three days a week.

I have two dogs , a cat , a van...I do not look the "type" to be on as tight budget, but I am.

I know the pain.

earth mom  (1000+ posts)        Fri Oct-16-09 04:56 AM
Response to Original message
 
12. My husband and I lived as the working poor for years...I know how awful it can be.

Hang in there.

The grouchy old primitive, from Illinois:

NNN0LHI  (1000+ posts)      Fri Oct-16-09 05:54 AM
Response to Original message
 
14. All I can say is when I entered the workforce in 1973 there were plenty of GOOD paying jobs

Then Americans began purchasing their cars from foreign automakers.

And that was the end of plenty of GOOD paying jobs.

I have listened to some of my neighbors complaining about the lack of jobs for their children entering the workforce today.

Never fails I look over and there are a couple of Toyotas or Hondas in their driveway.

I just shake my head. They just don't get it. They can't see the forest for the trees.

And what these neighbors don't realize is that there are hundreds of thousands of retired autoworkers just like myself who would drive out of our way to not do any business with them or the companies they work for.

I watch them driving to the unemployment office in their Hondas and Toyotas.

roody  (1000+ posts)      Fri Oct-16-09 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
 
15. If you pm me with an address and your foot size, I will send you a care package with good socks in it.

[Carl]

What a bunch of whining sad sacks.

I wonder what else has been omitted from this tale of woe which features a person with 80,000 dollars of student loan debt but now can`t find a decent job.
Credit card debt that they have walked from as well.

Something tells me it is a worthless degree or major they took and are unemployable due to drug issues.
Just a guess but given the nature of the primitives as good as any.

No matter what there is much that isn`t being said here and the fact that they are posting regularly would indicate an ongoing Internet connection to the tune of 25-60.00/month.

[Doc Savage]

Just pure lack of motivation.  If you are working 20-30 hours a week at minimum wage, you have another 20-30 hours a week to work a second job.  Make you even with the productive members of the work force. 

[Flame]

I worked for minimum wage when I was 16.  And then, only for 3 month or so, until I got my first review.  At a fast food joint.

I was on my own, paying all my own bills by the time I was 18 (not by choice, but both parents had passed away).  I worked fuill time, went to school full time (and I got more than minimum wage, and *gasp* also had health insurance offered through my job...at a convenience store!).

I had a room mate.   I ate mac and cheese and eggs more times that I would care to count.

I didn't have cable, or internet, or a shiny new car, or cell phone or anything.  I didn't have time to need any of those things.

But guess what, that life only lasted for about 4 years, until I got out of school.


A minimum wage job is not meant to be a lifestyle...only a total loser stays at minimum wage for an extended period of time.

[ScubaGuy]

$80,000.00 in student loans and he's still working minimum wage jobs?  Guess that's what you get with a liberal arts degree.

[Chris_]

It appears to me that the DU is a meeting place where people can enable each other to pity themselves, and meet other people who believe the government should be solving their problems, share new and improved ways to milk the system for all it's worth and so on, vs. getting off their asses, quitting all the whining and doing something for themselves other than thinking up creative new ways to serve Ramen.

Echoing Carl's comments, where is the internet service coming from?  Perhaps they can use their library's service, but most libraries limit people to 1/2 hour - 1 1/2 hours a day, so I doubt that. 

As someone barely making ends meet, I feel qualified to say, seriously - shut the **** up, whiners.  If I had to go $80K in debt to get a degree, I'd skip the degree.  It didn't seem to do the original poster any good.

[Chump]

As someone barely making ends meet, I feel qualified to say, seriously - shut the **** up, whiners.  If I had to go $80K in debt to get a degree, I'd skip the degree.  It didn't seem to do the original poster any good.

 

I agree, and I'm coming from the same situation.

I wouldn't have necessarily skipped the degree, but like you said, what benefit has he received from it?  He owes almost as much as I owe on my mortgage principle.  I can guarantee that if I had agreed to go into debt for 80 ****ing thousand dollars I wouldn't be flipping meat-like patties for minimum wage somewhere.

What an educated doofus. 

[Texacon]

hfojvt  (1000+ posts)        Fri Oct-16-09 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
 
4. I expect to make about $225 a week after insurance and retirement are taken out of my check.

But I only work about 20 hours a week at almost $14 an hour.

If my house was not paid for I probably would have to work full time, or cut out some of my luxuries.

Beans and rice is probably cheaper than my standard meal which is to mix a can of spaghettios into a cup of rice. I consider that a delicious meal, and it ought to be since it is chock full of sugar and salt.

If spaghetti sauce is on sale I will mix that with rice as well.

Ramen noodles are very high in fat and salt. This package here says it has 1660 milligrams of sodium and 14 grams of fat, including 7 grams of saturated fat. You are probably better off with plain pasta and hot sauce as long as you remember to rinse the pasta, and pasta is probably cheaper too.

If I had to, I could easily go without a phone or a car or the internet. I have for much of my life, but now I think life would suck without the internet.
But this is why I think it is important that the Democratic Congress did manage to raise the minimum wage. An accomplishment that is often poo-poohed on DU.

There are all the DUmmies problems in a nutshell.  They don't want to work.  Period.  "Oh woe is me .... if things don't change I may have to work more than 20 hours per week.  Boo Hoo.  I might have to give up internet rather than buy real food.  Waaaaa.  Life sux"

I thought they were 'all' educated and are the intelligent ones.  Seems like they can't figure out the simple stuff like .... I dunno ... SURVIVAL and how that works.

I have a total of 7 college hours and a high school diploma.  I make pretty decent money .... how does that work?

DUmmies, I know y'all come over here to get the real facts of life .... here's one for you to take back to your island.  You're losers.  Plain and simple.  Most of you are not willing to do what it takes to have what you want and there in lies your problem.  As was mentioned upstream in this thread ... you have no MOTIVATION and want to cry because no one will GIVE you what you want.  Suck it up, get a backbone and do what you must to have what you want/need.  Stop blaming everyone else for what you are doing to yourself.

KC

[The Village Idiot]

As someone barely making ends meet, I feel qualified to say, seriously - shut the **** up, whiners.  If I had to go $80K in debt to get a degree, I'd skip the degree.  It didn't seem to do the original poster any good.

I'm at my sisters house, barely getting by (feel free to mail me your old books =o) and I totally agree. I will get a number for MegaMillions tonite though.

[Karin]

And there's the sad truth about those dumb degrees.  You may major in ethnic/gender studies, or sociology and the like, but it gets you nothing, just like my moonbat stepson.  A better idea would be to major in something useful, and then pursue your passions on the side. 

Flame is right, the min wage jobs are for transitions in life.  And the OP could definitely get another part time and increase the hours.  (Unless they live in that spot in CA where the enviros and politicians turned off the spigot). 

[GOBUCKS]

grasswire  (1000+ posts)      Fri Oct-16-09 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
 
Always remember -- it's not your fault. The system has betrayed you.

Right there is the root of their problem. They actually believe that.

[delilahmused]

The really sad thing is these people just can't be happy and grateful for what they DO have. We're not rich and probably never will be but our needs are met. We have a roof over our heads, food electricity, etc. We even allow ourselves a few luxuries (Internet & Satellite TV, Cell Phone - though we use that instead of a land line). It appears since this person is whining on an Internet message board she can afford a few luxuries, too. Quality of life and happiness is up to YOU! Why not find the silver lining in things...every single situation has one.

I'm sure it's better to be rich than poor but as I've never been rich I don't know what I'm missing. Why lament something I've never had? If being rich guaranteed happiness Hollywood wouldn't be so angry, self-righteous, and neurotic. If you truly think being rich is the key, then WORK for it. If you can only find part-time minimum wage jobs then find TWO of them. You'll pay off your debts faster and be able to start saving, then investing (you can even just invest in government savings bonds if you think government is better than the private sector...it'll take you a hell a lot longer to get rich, but at least you won't be funding evil corporate overlords).

Sheesh, even the ones who have no business being victims think they are.

Cindie

[The Village Idiot]

Right there is the root of their problem. They actually believe that.

That is one of the main rules of liberalism. Just like "You deserve it and should have it and someone else should pay for it"

[crockspot]

I just had a very nice lunch that I'm guessing cost me a fair amount less than a dollar.

-Two homemade corn tortillas (5lb. sack of masa harina for two bucks at the dollar store, one quarter cup of which makes two tortillas, with a little water and a pinch of salt.)
-Freshly refried beans (can of pinto beans 69 cents on sale at price chopper, quarter of an onion, splash of oil, and clove of garlic. Makes enough for five of these meals.)
-Grated Vermont sharp cheddar cheese (the most expensive part, 4 bucks a pound on sale at price chopper. Used maybe half an ounce.)
-Old El Paso taco sauce (buck a bottle at dollar store.)
-Sour cream (buck a pint on sale at price chopper.)
-Few cents worth of gas to run the stove.

Best damn tostadas ever. Complete protein too.

I have a variety of meats in the freezer, just haven't felt like having much meat. I might thaw out a chicken leg quarter some time in the next week.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Leftist Agitator (1000+ posts)      Fri Oct-16-09 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
 
2. "unless we join the revolution to overthrow all banks, corporations, etc... "

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

And what would this accomplish exactly?  Moron.

[Karin]

"Join the revolution to overthrow the corporations."  Just what exactly does that look like?  Can you get past reception?  Or will the stern lady turn them away? 

Them and their idiotic hatred of the corporation.  They should look around and see all the goods and services provided by corporations.  Their computer, their ISP, their Cheetos, their beer, pharmaceuticals, rolling papers, bongs, Ramen noodles, mac&cheese, tie dye t shirts, God forbid an actual job, and anything else near and dear to them.  All made and brought to you by a corporation.   

[LC EFA]

"Join the revolution to overthrow the corporations."  Just what exactly does that look like?  Can you get past reception?  Or will the stern lady turn them away? 

Them and their idiotic hatred of the corporation.  They should look around and see all the goods and services provided by corporations.  Their computer, their ISP, their Cheetos, their beer, pharmaceuticals, rolling papers, bongs, Ramen noodles, mac&cheese, tie dye t shirts, God forbid an actual job, and anything else near and dear to them.  All made and brought to you by a corporation.   

The most amusing part of the whole "down with the corporations" meme that the left likes to cry, is that any system that evolved as a consequence of their success would be either slavery or subsistence.

Something tells me that people who bitch about working 20 hours a week wouldn't really like either option.

[BlueStateSaint]

And what would this accomplish exactly?  Moron.

A lot of dead DUmb****s.

[The Village Idiot]

The most amusing part of the whole "down with the corporations" meme that the left likes to cry, is that any system that evolved as a consequence of their success would be either slavery or subsistence.

Something tells me that people who bitch about working 20 hours a week wouldn't really like either option.

Mass starvation. Desperate DUmmies voluntarily becoming chattel slaves for George Soros and on the Gore Toxic Farm

[jtyangel]

Well, let's see...when I was first out of high school I had NO help from my parents. I ROOMED instead of shot for the moon to have my own place and I road public transportation for years. It wasn't until I got 2 *gasp* jobs that I was able to spring for a car(a new one to boot) but that happened because I roomed and refused to get much credit(just enough to build it and I did a damn fine job of that hence the ability to buy a new vehicle, on my own, with no cosigner). I looked at that as an investment at the time. I knew getting that vehicle would open up the door for jobs that I could previously not get to because of public transport. It worked and I worked.

Now, I am in my late 30's and had to finish my education. I have nearly 20k invested it and have decided at this point to stop with what I have in for now, not wishing to run up a bill like the DUmmie until I actually have some work to show for the loan I have outstanding. I would never feel comfortable with no prospects continuing to run up a loan like that. That's ridiculous.

I don't see why this DUmmie isn't working 2 jobs since he/she says they have no responsibilities other then itself??? They should not be living that hand to mouth unless it wants to. Sounds to me like it has decided that it would rather live tightly instead of working another 10 or 20 hours a week at another job. That is ITS choice and nobody elses. Not the public's business to supplement its choice to have free time over enough $$ to live more comfortably. I mean, it admitted it has no other obligations in life except itself and the debt it has run up. Come on! It could probably take make a serious dent in that loan by working a local restaurant on the weekends and just applying all that money to its loan for a couple of years. This makes me so mad since I wish I had the kind of freedom to be able to take any job right now:-(

[debk]

I have one of those "useless" Bachelor of Arts degrees....Sociology w a Criminal Justice concentration, minors in Psych and Anthropology. It would have only been more useless if I had majored in finger painting, which I might have done if I had flunked statistics instead of only coming close to it.

The last time I worked for minimum wage was in the dorm cafeteria and the campus bookstore....BEFORE I received a degree.

I have never worked in my "chosen field".

Many employers only care that you have a degree. Someone that has spent $80k to get a college education should be able to get a job for higher than minimum wage....maybe not what they want to do or went to school to study for...and they may have to start at the bottom of the ladder or even move to a different area where there are more available jobs.

[Texacon]

I have one of those "useless" Bachelor of Arts degrees....Sociology w a Criminal Justice concentration, minors in Psych and Anthropology. It would have only been more useless if I had majored in finger painting, which I might have done if I had flunked statistics instead of only coming close to it.

The last time I worked for minimum wage was in the dorm cafeteria and the campus bookstore....BEFORE I received a degree.

I have never worked in my "chosen field".

Many employers only care that you have a degree. Someone that has spent $80k to get a college education should be able to get a job for higher than minimum wage....maybe not what they want to do or went to school to study for...and they may have to start at the bottom of the ladder or even move to a different area where there are more available jobs.

Not a useless degree here.  Huntsville, TX has a slew of folks with degrees like that working for the state.  They make a decent living too.

KC

[debk]

Not a useless degree here.  Huntsville, TX has a slew of folks with degrees like that working for the state.  They make a decent living too.

KC

I haven't tried to use it since I first graduated from college. I moved to Omaha, hoping to work at Boys' Town. My references were all good, my college classes were good. The problem was the way I looked and my size.

I had just turned 21, 5 months before I graduated, but I looked like I was about 15. I was 5'4" and weighed 94lbs on a "heavy" day.

They said they couldn't guarantee my safety.

I had moved from IL because I didn't want to work Cabrini Green or E St Louis.

I ended up working in retail, first as a buyer's assistant, then a dept assistant manager for 18 months. Quit to go work for Xerox. Dumbest thing I did was quit to get married and move out of state. I was the only female in the office(actually the whole territory which at that time was all of NE, part of western IA) with a college degree and was in their management training program. They needed to get women in management. There was only one woman in the office at the time in management: she was my boss, didn't have a degree and only had worked for the company a couple of years.

[Texacon]

I haven't tried to use it since I first graduated from college. I moved to Omaha, hoping to work at Boys' Town. My references were all good, my college classes were good. The problem was the way I looked and my size.

I had just turned 21, 5 months before I graduated, but I looked like I was about 15. I was 5'4" and weighed 94lbs on a "heavy" day.

They said they couldn't guarantee my safety.

I had moved from IL because I didn't want to work Cabrini Green or E St Louis.

I ended up working in retail, first as a buyer's assistant, then a dept assistant manager for 18 months. Quit to go work for Xerox. Dumbest thing I did was quit to get married and move out of state. I was the only female in the office(actually the whole territory which at that time was all of NE, part of western IA) with a college degree and was in their management training program. They needed to get women in management. There was only one woman in the office at the time in management: she was my boss, didn't have a degree and only had worked for the company a couple of years.

Here with that degree you could work in administration for TDCJ.  The pay is good and the benefits are excellent.  You wouldn't get rich but it is a cush job.

KC

[debk]

Here with that degree you could work in administration for TDCJ.  The pay is good and the benefits are excellent.  You wouldn't get rich but it is a cush job.

KC

I'm not getting "rich" selling real estate in this market....and I don't have benefits. 

My runnin' buddy works at UT....she has incredible bennies. It's crossed my mind to go see what they have available.