Author Topic: Obama Prepared to Accept Some Taliban Involvement in Afghanistan Politics  (Read 4074 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ColonialMarine0431

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2692
  • Reputation: +167/-18
  • DEUS VULT
Can someone tell me again why we're in Afghanistan?

Quote
Official: Obama to Send Enough Troops to Keep Al Qaeda at Bay
The official also added that President Obama is prepared to accept some Taliban involvement in Afghanistan's political future, reiterating what the president said in March.


WASHINGTON -- President Obama is inclined to send only as many more U.S. troops to Afghanistan as are needed to keep Al Qaeda at bay, a senior administration official said.

The official, in an interview with The Associated Press, also added that the president is prepared to accept some Taliban involvement in Afghanistan's political future, reiterating what Obama said in March.

FULL STORY
I'll See Your Jihad and Raise You One Crusade

Offline IassaFTots

  • In WTF-istan, I am considered a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13972
  • Reputation: +770/-274
  • Oh well, I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway.
I may be a military brat, 2nd generation, but some of the finer points regarding warfare elude me.  Can any one of you please explain to me exactly how one "keeps the Taliban at bay"?  Dumb it down into civilian talk please.  I don't believe I have ever heard of that being a tactic before.   :badmood:
R.I.P. LC and Crockspot.  Miss you guys.

The infinite is possible at zombocom.  www.zombo.com

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." ~ Martin Luther King
 
“Political Correctness is about turning a blind eye to painful reality because your comfortable feelings are more important to you than saving lives and providing quality of life to people who work their ass off to be productive and are a benefit to this great American Dream"  ~Ted Nugent

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23582
  • Reputation: +2497/-270
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
There is no holding any enemy at bay. You set-up areas where you can defend local populations then move these forward to challenge the enemy. The idea is to get the protected populations to love you more than the enemy thus denying the enemy of manuever space, resources, safe havens, recruits etc. Once an area flips you move into the next area until the enemy is squeezed out. It's long and painstaking but its been proven roughly 70% of the time over the last few thousand years from Alexander vs the Bactrians to the Brits vs Wales to the modern Brits vs SE Asian guerillas.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline ironhorsedriver

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 533
  • Reputation: +28/-1

Offline dutch508

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12580
  • Reputation: +1733/-1068
  • Remember
Jesus ****ing Christ! This is like trueman saying he'd be open to Hitler being involved with teh german Government after the war...


 :banghead:
The torch of moral clarity since 12/18/07

2016 DOTY: 06 Omaha Steve - Is dying for ****'s face! How could you not vote for him, you heartless bastards!?!

Offline dutch508

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12580
  • Reputation: +1733/-1068
  • Remember
see my outburst in breaking news...
The torch of moral clarity since 12/18/07

2016 DOTY: 06 Omaha Steve - Is dying for ****'s face! How could you not vote for him, you heartless bastards!?!

Offline IassaFTots

  • In WTF-istan, I am considered a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13972
  • Reputation: +770/-274
  • Oh well, I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway.
There is no holding any enemy at bay. You set-up areas where you can defend local populations then move these forward to challenge the enemy. The idea is to get the protected populations to love you more than the enemy thus denying the enemy of manuever space, resources, safe havens, recruits etc. Once an area flips you move into the next area until the enemy is squeezed out. It's long and painstaking but its been proven roughly 70% of the time over the last few thousand years from Alexander vs the Bactrians to the Brits vs Wales to the modern Brits vs SE Asian guerillas.

Okay.  But when I read things like this:  
Quote
Obama's developing strategy on the Taliban will "not tolerate their return to power," the senior official said. But the U.S. would fight only to keep the Taliban from retaking control of Afghanistan's central government -- something it is now far from being capable of -- and from giving renewed sanctuary in Afghanistan to Al-Qaeda, the official said.

I wonder how the bleep that is going to get accomplished if McChrystal's requests are not met.  And, IMHO, this all just sounds a little wishy washy, and incredibly unfair to all the men and women we have out there keeping the Taliban AT BAY.  I fully understand the strategies you listed above, but I would like to believe that those are different, because they had knowledgeable leaders at the helm, who believed in what they were doing and why, and weren't so concerned about their own image.  
R.I.P. LC and Crockspot.  Miss you guys.

The infinite is possible at zombocom.  www.zombo.com

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." ~ Martin Luther King
 
“Political Correctness is about turning a blind eye to painful reality because your comfortable feelings are more important to you than saving lives and providing quality of life to people who work their ass off to be productive and are a benefit to this great American Dream"  ~Ted Nugent

Offline IassaFTots

  • In WTF-istan, I am considered a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13972
  • Reputation: +770/-274
  • Oh well, I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway.
Jesus ******* Christ! This is like trueman saying he'd be open to Hitler being involved with teh german Government after the war...


 :banghead:

OK.  Looks like we are on the same page.
R.I.P. LC and Crockspot.  Miss you guys.

The infinite is possible at zombocom.  www.zombo.com

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." ~ Martin Luther King
 
“Political Correctness is about turning a blind eye to painful reality because your comfortable feelings are more important to you than saving lives and providing quality of life to people who work their ass off to be productive and are a benefit to this great American Dream"  ~Ted Nugent

Offline Hawkgirl

  • Alpha Female
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4291
  • Reputation: +186/-73
The article continues to state Biden and General McCrystal are on opposite sides of this debate.  McCrystal want a minimum of an additional 10K troops to a preferable 40K troops, while Biden wants no additional troops [because of the recent anti-war posts in DC]

Who will the bronze statue listen to...a military GENERAL or Blithering Idiot Biden?

Offline Chris_

  • Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46845
  • Reputation: +2028/-266
Who will the bronze statue listen to...a military GENERAL or Blithering Idiot Biden?

If you have to ask...
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline dutch508

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12580
  • Reputation: +1733/-1068
  • Remember
Re: Obama Prepared to Accept Some Taliban Involvement in Afghanistan Politics
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2009, 05:02:59 PM »
OK.  Looks like we are on the same page.

In 1918 the German Government sued for peace.

In 1920 the former German Army soldiers formed 'clubs'

During the 1920s and 30s these clubs fought against various communist 'clubs' (see the Spartican revolt)

One of the themes of thes veterans groups was being stabbing in the back by the governemnt back home even though they had been winning the war at the front.
The torch of moral clarity since 12/18/07

2016 DOTY: 06 Omaha Steve - Is dying for ****'s face! How could you not vote for him, you heartless bastards!?!

Offline ColonialMarine0431

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2692
  • Reputation: +167/-18
  • DEUS VULT
I'll See Your Jihad and Raise You One Crusade

Offline thundley4

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40571
  • Reputation: +2224/-127
Re: Obama Prepared to Accept Some Taliban Involvement in Afghanistan Politics
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2009, 05:07:03 PM »
The article continues to state Biden and General McCrystal are on opposite sides of this debate.  McCrystal want a minimum of an additional 10K troops to a preferable 40K troops, while Biden wants no additional troops [because of the recent anti-war posts in DC]

Who will the bronze statue listen to...a military GENERAL or Blithering Idiot Biden?

I had heard on the news that McCrystal originally was going to ask for 50,000 troops, but was under pressure to drop it to 40K.  If they aren't going to give him the number he asks for, then what difference does it make how many he asks for?

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23582
  • Reputation: +2497/-270
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
Re: Obama Prepared to Accept Some Taliban Involvement in Afghanistan Politics
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2009, 05:12:45 PM »
Okay.  But when I read things like this:  
I wonder how the bleep that is going to get accomplished if McChrystal's requests are not met.  And, IMHO, this all just sounds a little wishy washy, and incredibly unfair to all the men and women we have out there keeping the Taliban AT BAY.  I fully understand the strategies you listed above, but I would like to believe that those are different, because they had knowledgeable leaders at the helm, who believed in what they were doing and why, and weren't so concerned about their own image.  
In other words the president wants to play whack-a-mole with a strong military presence in Kabul but that is guaranteed to fail as soon as the talis push around enough provincials to win a general election. Either Obama concedes or he fights wars to allow any coalition except THAT coalition and he looks like a big phony.

This article is nothing but the beginning of the end. Surrender. Capitulation. Whatever you want to call it. It is unsustainable.

Ironically, Bush won Iraq before leaving office and the moral necessity of that war was always in doubt. Yet here comes Obama less than a year in office going French on a war even he called necessary.

It isn't as if the strategy is in doubt it is merely the will of the CinC to see it through.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline ColonialMarine0431

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2692
  • Reputation: +167/-18
  • DEUS VULT
Re: Obama Prepared to Accept Some Taliban Involvement in Afghanistan Politics
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2009, 05:20:20 PM »
The article continues to state Biden and General McCrystal are on opposite sides of this debate.  McCrystal want a minimum of an additional 10K troops to a preferable 40K troops, while Biden wants no additional troops [because of the recent anti-war posts in DC]

Who will the bronze statue listen to...a military GENERAL or Blithering Idiot Biden?

That military genious Biden also opposed the Surge in Iraq.  :hammer:
I'll See Your Jihad and Raise You One Crusade

Offline JohnnyReb

  • In Memoriam
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32063
  • Reputation: +1998/-134
Re: Obama Prepared to Accept Some Taliban Involvement in Afghanistan Politics
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2009, 05:26:01 PM »
Obama is open minded and clear headed.....his mind is open for anything and you can see clear thru his head....despite the big ears.
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Stalin

Offline Hawkgirl

  • Alpha Female
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4291
  • Reputation: +186/-73
Re: Obama Prepared to Accept Some Taliban Involvement in Afghanistan Politics
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2009, 05:30:55 PM »
Obama is open minded and clear headed.....his mind is open for anything and you can see clear thru his head....despite the big ears.

I disagree...I believe he knows EXACTLY what he is doing....but then I sometimes think he's a pawn in a movement. People like Axelrod, ACORN and Rahm Emmanuel are controlling the puppet.

Offline thundley4

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40571
  • Reputation: +2224/-127
Re: Obama Prepared to Accept Some Taliban Involvement in Afghanistan Politics
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2009, 05:32:18 PM »
I disagree...I believe he knows EXACTLY what he is doing....but then I sometimes think he's a pawn in a movement. People like Axelrod, ACORN and Rahm Emmanuel are controlling the puppet.

You forgot one.  George Soros.

Offline IassaFTots

  • In WTF-istan, I am considered a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13972
  • Reputation: +770/-274
  • Oh well, I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway.
Re: Obama Prepared to Accept Some Taliban Involvement in Afghanistan Politics
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2009, 07:14:23 PM »
I heard on the radio he asked for 60K.  This is absolutely horrific. 
R.I.P. LC and Crockspot.  Miss you guys.

The infinite is possible at zombocom.  www.zombo.com

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." ~ Martin Luther King
 
“Political Correctness is about turning a blind eye to painful reality because your comfortable feelings are more important to you than saving lives and providing quality of life to people who work their ass off to be productive and are a benefit to this great American Dream"  ~Ted Nugent

Offline ReardenSteel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3462
  • Reputation: +204/-18
Re: Obama Prepared to Accept Some Taliban Involvement in Afghanistan Politics
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2009, 09:54:36 PM »

Flashback: Obama Rips Pakistan For "Making Peace Treaties With The Taliban" During Election
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWNqun21uQo[/youtube]

Hat tip to Mere Rhetoric
http://www.mererhetoric.com/archives/11275906.html
"When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion - when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you - when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice - you may know that your society is doomed."

- Ayn Rand
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1826

Offline Chris_

  • Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46845
  • Reputation: +2028/-266
Re: Obama Prepared to Accept Some Taliban Involvement in Afghanistan Politics
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2009, 06:05:48 AM »
Why doesn't he just hand over battle plans come on is he really that stupid?
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline TheSarge

  • Platoon Sergeant
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9557
  • Reputation: +411/-252
Re: Obama Prepared to Accept Some Taliban Involvement in Afghanistan Politics
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2009, 08:23:11 AM »
Why doesn't he just hand over battle plans come on is he really that stupid?

Yes.
Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years.  The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

If it walks like a donkey and brays like a donkey and smells like a donkey - it's Cold Warrior.  - PoliCon



Palin has run a state, a town and a commercial fishing operation. Obama ain't run nothin' but his mouth. - Mark Steyn

Offline DumbAss Tanker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28493
  • Reputation: +1710/-151
Re: Obama Prepared to Accept Some Taliban Involvement in Afghanistan Politics
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2009, 08:44:33 AM »
What a ****ing genius idea.

 :sarcasm:
Go and tell the Spartans, O traveler passing by
That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice.

Offline Chris_

  • Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46845
  • Reputation: +2028/-266
Re: Obama Prepared to Accept Some Taliban Involvement in Afghanistan Politics
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2009, 09:19:56 AM »
Can we charge him with treason and impeach his a**
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23582
  • Reputation: +2497/-270
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
Re: Obama Prepared to Accept Some Taliban Involvement in Afghanistan Politics
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2009, 09:54:43 AM »
Can we charge him with treason and impeach his a**
Had the surge failed in Iraq they were prepared to impeach Bush and I wouldn't have had the heart to stop them.

I remain true to my principles.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."