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Author Topic: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind  (Read 8459 times)

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Offline ReardenSteel

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House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« on: October 08, 2009, 04:02:00 PM »

House Democrats are floating the idea of a windfall-profits tax on the private health insurance industry as a way to finance their healthcare overhaul, and to drum up support among members of a divided caucus.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) called the windfall profits tax idea "very preliminary," saying she's asked House Ways and Means Chairman Charles Rangel (D-N.Y.) to look at how much the tax could raise.

I have asked Chairman Rangel to see what is in it for us," Pelosi said. "There's more that the insurance companies could contribute to this health care reform. They're going to get 50 million new consumers, many of them subsidized by the taxpayer. They can put more on the table."

The idea was brought up in a leadership meeting on Wednesday night and brought before the entire caucus on Thursday morning, according to Rep. Gerry Connolly (D-Va.).

Connolly said no specific structure or tax rates were discussed, nor was it estimated how much revenue could be brought in through a tax on the profits of the largest health insurance companies, but Connolly said the idea had wide support.


http://thehill.com/homenews/house/62211-house-dems-considering-windfall-profits-tax-on-insurance-industry
.....

Maybe one day we'll get that "Windfall profits tax rebate" from Congress we all could use. (not holding breath)
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Offline ReardenSteel

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2009, 04:14:07 PM »
Ed Morrissey want's to know:

Quote
What constitutes a “windfall” in an industry that averages a paltry 3.3% profit margin — free donuts on Fridays?  Whatever it is, or rather whatever it is after Congress pounds insurers and providers with previously-proposed excise fees and taxes, Nancy Pelosi and her colleagues want it.

Hat tip to Hot Air for all of the above.

Ed also notes, rightly, that whatever the tax and whatever the means and whatever the name, that cost will simply get passed right on to us in the form of higher prices. (audible sigh)

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"When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion - when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you - when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice - you may know that your society is doomed."

- Ayn Rand
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1826

Offline thundley4

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2009, 04:14:51 PM »
Let's see, we raise taxes on the private insurance companies, they in turn pass the increased costs on to their customers, those customers reach a point that they can no longer afford the premiums, and are forced into the government provided plans.  A run on sentence to be sure, but I think I covered their reasoning for this.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2009, 04:16:24 PM »
Well, it's not unprecedented, though you have to go back a couple of decades to the similar tax on the petrochemical industry.  Doesn't make it a good idea though.  She is kind of putting the cart before the horse, assuming there are going to be windfall profits due to legislative changes producing a whole new regulatory landscape, which was not the case with the oil industry. 
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Offline Carl

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2009, 04:44:41 PM »
Quote
I have asked Chairman Rangel to see what is in it for us," Pelosi said. "There's more that the insurance companies could contribute to this health care reform. They're going to get 50 million new consumers, many of them subsidized by the taxpayer. They can put more on the table."

Which also means they will have to maintain larger fund balances to meet legal requirements of coverage security I bet.

The whole thinking is just stupid and convoluted...you will get tax dollars for policy premiums so we will take that back from you in a revenue neutral arrangement yet you will be liable for increased coverage needs.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2009, 05:29:16 PM »
Maybe if crooks like Charles Rangel paid their damn taxes ......
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Offline Chump

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2009, 05:33:39 PM »
What a stupid bitch.

How about a useless **** tax?  We can start with the 545 useless ****s in Washington giving up 95% of their salaries, along with 95% of any earnings associated with their positions (books, speaking engagements, etc.).  Of course, any perks will also be taxed at fair market value.

Please pardon my language.  I'm so ****ing fed up with every aspect of life in this country being mangled in some form or fashion by government asshattery.  Fed the **** up.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2009, 05:58:40 PM »
We're coming to the end. Congress is trying to actively use a private company's money, via taxes, to put them out of business. These f'n idiots have shit all over the US Constitution.
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Offline Chump

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2009, 06:18:35 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on October 08, 2009, 05:58:40 PM
We're coming to the end. Congress is trying to actively use a private company's money, via taxes, to put them out of business. These f'n idiots have shit all over the US Constitution.

Just wait until revenue essentially dries up and there's no one lining up for our Treasury offerings...

Atlas Shrugged will look like an elementary school play.
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Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.   ~Robert A. Heinlein

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Offline Deuce

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2009, 07:58:32 PM »
The way these insurance companies have treated my family I'm not about to shed a tear for them, but this strikes me as a futile effort. We're about to give them a trillion dollar handout, what's the point? Here's a bunch of money, but we're going to take a little of it back!

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Offline bkg

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2009, 08:08:54 PM »
Quote from: Deuce on October 08, 2009, 07:58:32 PM
The way these insurance companies have treated my family I'm not about to shed a tear for them, but this strikes me as a futile effort. We're about to give them a trillion dollar handout, what's the point? Here's a bunch of money, but we're going to take a little of it back!



Aaaaaaaanndd here we go again!   :banghead:

We're giving insurance companies a trillion dollar hand out?  :rotf: :rotf: Please read HR3200 and this proposed bill before making patently false statements, mmmmmmmmmmkay?
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Offline Rebel

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2009, 09:47:56 PM »
Quote from: Deuce on October 08, 2009, 07:58:32 PM
The way these insurance companies have treated my family I'm not about to shed a tear for them, but this strikes me as a futile effort. We're about to give them a trillion dollar handout, what's the point? Here's a bunch of money, but we're going to take a little of it back!

I feel for you, seriously, I do. I'm in this situation. However, we can always change insurance companies. We can also regulate them and mandate them to follow certain guidelines. When the government is your insurance provider?


You are ****ed.
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Offline ColonialMarine0431

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2009, 10:11:30 PM »
DemocRATs never met a tax or an abortionist they didn't love.
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Offline Ree

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2009, 10:24:26 PM »
Quote from: Deuce on October 08, 2009, 07:58:32 PM
The way these insurance companies have treated my family I'm not about to shed a tear for them, but this strikes me as a futile effort. We're about to give them a trillion dollar handout, what's the point? Here's a bunch of money, but we're going to take a little of it back!


WTF are ya smokin?
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Offline Rebel

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2009, 10:40:41 PM »
Quote from: Ree on October 08, 2009, 10:24:26 PM
WTF are ya smokin?

Insurance companies are not infallible.
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2009, 12:21:14 AM »
I see the little Deuce Coup has crapped in another thread. Just how did or does the insurance company treat you? They actually think you should have to pay for a portion of your healthcare? Oh the humanity!!!!!!!11

I've had 7 screws inserted in various places. The bill for the total came out to be damn near a 1/4 million bucks! My share was in the thousands, but sure beat the hell out of having to pay for the whole damn thing!

Every time I change insurance companies I have a one year grace for pre-existing. BFD! I can certainly understand their point of view. Let's see, I make one payment that amounts to around $200, the following week, I go in for $150,000 worth of surgery! Boy what a deal for the insurance company! I sure as hell wouldn't make a deal like that!

Oh, and I still need at least 4 more "interactions" with a scalpel, a good drill motor, and a few stainless steel screws.

edited to add comment
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 12:29:59 AM by AllosaursRus »
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Offline Deuce

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2009, 05:26:07 PM »
Are you people insane?

We're about to provide 35 million+ new customers to insurance companies. They will profit from this. Taxpayer money will even fund a lot of these premiums. "Here's a bunch of tax dollars, but we're going to take some of them back." It doesn't make any sense.

The average customer is profitable for an insurance company. That's how insurance works. The unlucky are subsidized by the lucky. More customers = more profit.
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Offline thundley4

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2009, 05:38:30 PM »
Quote from: Deuce on October 09, 2009, 05:26:07 PM
Are you people insane?

We're about to provide 35 million+ new customers to insurance companies. They will profit from this. Taxpayer money will even fund a lot of these premiums. "Here's a bunch of tax dollars, but we're going to take some of them back." It doesn't make any sense.

The average customer is profitable for an insurance company. That's how insurance works. The unlucky are subsidized by the lucky. More customers = more profit.

How many of those new customers are going to be signed up and already have an existing condition which will be a net loss on every one of them?  If there was that much money to be made from it, then the government would have just rammed through a public option just to make money on it. You also  seem to forget that the government will also be setting the price structures for the insurance companies, and will also decide what they have to cover, how much deductibles will be, and how much co-pays and everything else will be. This whole thing is designed to drive people onto the government plan and to take more control of people's lives.  If anyone is insane, it's the ones that want this to succeed.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2009, 05:42:51 PM »
Quote from: Deuce on October 09, 2009, 05:26:07 PM
The average customer is profitable for an insurance company. That's how insurance works. The unlucky are subsidized by the lucky. More customers = more profit.

The "unlucky"? Care to explain?
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Offline bkg

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2009, 05:55:16 PM »
Quote from: Deuce on October 09, 2009, 05:26:07 PM
Are you people insane?

We're about to provide 35 million+ new customers to insurance companies. They will profit from this. Taxpayer money will even fund a lot of these premiums. "Here's a bunch of tax dollars, but we're going to take some of them back." It doesn't make any sense.

The average customer is profitable for an insurance company. That's how insurance works. The unlucky are subsidized by the lucky. More customers = more profit.

Deuce - you are talking about things of which you have no knowledge. Please stop now. You're making yourself look stupid. Stop talking out of emotion, go read the FAWKING BILLS and then comment.

You may think I'm rude - I'm trying to keep you from making yourself look like an idiot.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2009, 08:40:28 PM »
Quote from: bkg on October 09, 2009, 05:55:16 PM
Deuce - you are talking about things of which you have no knowledge. Please stop now. You're making yourself look stupid. Stop talking out of emotion, go read the FAWKING BILLS and then comment.

You may think I'm rude - I'm trying to keep you from making yourself look like an idiot.

Way too late.
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Offline Deuce

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2009, 08:41:43 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on October 09, 2009, 05:42:51 PM
The "unlucky"? Care to explain?

The unlucky are those who get sick more. The lucky are those who don't.

I'm confused. Are you guys supporting the Baucus health care bill? Or any of the currently proposed bills? Supporting an insurance mandate?

Seriously, educate me. What about all of this is going to be good?

Baucus healthcare plan, family of three, $55,000 total income:
Premium cap at 13% of income: ~$7200 annually.
Deductible cap at $11,900. Being slightly above 300% of the poverty line, no subsidies for deductibles.



Quote
How many of those new customers are going to be signed up and already have an existing condition which will be a net loss on every one of them?  If there was that much money to be made from it, then the government would have just rammed through a public option just to make money on it. You also  seem to forget that the government will also be setting the price structures for the insurance companies, and will also decide what they have to cover, how much deductibles will be, and how much co-pays and everything else will be. This whole thing is designed to drive people onto the government plan and to take more control of people's lives.  If anyone is insane, it's the ones that want this to succeed.

I'm opposing this entire bill sweet lord I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here!
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 08:48:19 PM by Deuce »
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Offline rich_t

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2009, 08:43:03 PM »
Quote from: Deuce on October 09, 2009, 08:41:43 PM
The unlucky are those who get sick more. The lucky are those who don't.

I'm confused. Are you guys supporting the Baucus health care bill? Or any of the currently proposed bills? Supporting an insurance mandate?

Seriously, educate me. What about all of this is going to be good?

Baucus healthcare plan, family of three, $55,000 total income:
Premium cap at 13% of income: ~$7200 annually.
Deductible cap at $11,900. Being slightly above 300% of the poverty line, no subsidies for deductibles.





When in the hell will you start linking to your sources?
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Offline Rebel

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2009, 08:51:13 PM »
Quote from: Deuce on October 09, 2009, 08:41:43 PM
I'm opposing this entire bill sweet lord I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here!

....as are we. Everyone here believes in a Capitalist solution to this situation. Not one by the government.
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Offline Deuce

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Re: House Dems looking at "windfall profits tax" 4 insurance ind
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2009, 08:53:46 PM »
So if you're all opposing this bill why are people calling me an idiot for opposing this bill?

Quote from: rich_t on October 09, 2009, 08:43:03 PM
When in the hell will you start linking to your sources?

Sorry!

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