You Think You Are Free?

[Carl]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2940874

Echo In Light (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-29-08 07:29 AM
Original message
You Think You Are Free?
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You Think You Are Free?
By Linda S. Heard

28/02/08 "ICH" -- Watching old movies makes me sad. I'm inevitably reminded of a kindlier, gentler world without cameras that spy on populations, where overseas travelling was pleasurable and privacy was an individual's right.

Nowadays, states are usurping responsibilities that are rightfully those of their citizens. Western so-called democracies, in particular, are supposed to have governments that are servants of the people, whereas, in fact, the opposite is true. Under the guise of doing what's best for us or ensuring our security, governments are exercising more and more control over our lives. And, tragically, we are facilitating this erosion of our own freedoms, mostly because we're not even aware it's happening.

The US and Britain are leading the pack in this encroaching Orwellian nightmare. "War is peace; Freedom is slavery; Ignorance is strength," wrote George Orwell in his book 1984. In recent years, they have waged wars in the name of peace, put entire populations under their thumb in the name of freedom while government spin and a compliant media serve to keep people ignorant about their leaders' true motives.

If we only knew we are being indoctrinated to offer up our personal freedoms to save ourselves from a horrible fate at the hands of nicotine, calories and Al Qaida. We are being taught to fear asylum seekers, climate change, crazed terrorists and even each other. Western governments are perfecting the politics of fear because fearful populaces will do their bidding without question and willingly subject themselves to control.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19434.h...

Nowhere is it explained what freedoms are lost (surprise) but the first response jumped right in.

ArizonaJosie (36 posts)        Fri Feb-29-08 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. I agree.
   I think that if an American from 1920 or so were suddenly "time traveled" to the present day that they would die of shock at the freedoms we have lost.
   

This was confusing so a couple dared to ask the unthinkable...

QuestionAll  (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-29-08 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. a time traveller from 1920 would at least be able to get a legal drink...
   couldn't do that under prohibition...

btw- what freedoms have we lost that the 1920 guy would have had...?

Another tries..

Sadie4629 (778 posts)        Fri Feb-29-08 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Sometimes I think
   that all these people who bemoan our 'loss of freedom' just don't really understand how free we are compared to a lot of places in the world.

And they are off..

Echo In Light (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-29-08 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. And so when our civil rights are under attack we shouldn't care because comparatively
   We're still better off than totalitarian societies that are controlled via the same mindset and draconian measures of those who would strip away our rights under the guise of "security?"

To me that sounds like every right winger who calls into C-SPAN's WJ and "bemoans" all those whining liberals who make a big deal over civil liberties ... after all, their talking point goes, if I'm not doing anything wrong, then why should I care if Big Brother is spying on me?

Granted these problems are not new, and we're collectively at a better place to {hopefully} thwart tyrannical intentions and policies of the corporate/state nexus - provided the problem is acknowledged an understood. A failed democracy which lapses into a police state doesn't occur overnight. Think of it as tip-toe fascism.
   

What freedoms?

ixion  (1000+ posts)         Fri Feb-29-08 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. well said
   and very true. We SHOULD 'bemoan' each and every loss of liberty, civil or otherwise, because many have given their lives to see that would would have such liberty.

I can't stand fascism, nor can I tolerate people who can't understand what giving up a freedom ultimately means.

Still waiting

blues90  (1000+ posts)         Fri Feb-29-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. well that's the danger now , isn't it ?
   We are becoming citizens without freedom and not to see this and compare it to other countries , then suddenly we are there , screwed , completely screwed .

Waiting

mmonk  (1000+ posts)        Sat Mar-01-08 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #34
56. Yep. I can think of people that are freer than we are.
   Edited on Sat Mar-01-08 07:19 AM by mmonk
And they have become even more free than us with our now, official end to constitutional rights.

superkia (1000+ posts)        Sat Mar-01-08 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #6
46. Eventually we will be as bad or worse than those countries,...
   for some reason, there are people out there that cant see outside the box, they only chant we are number one, we are number one! Funny thing is, this country has been so dumbed down and controlled, we are turning into a country of wealthy smart people that are number one and the rest are turning into asshats. Its a shame too because it will be our children and grandchildren that suffer because we are allowing this shit to happen in front of our eyes.

What??

lumberjack_jeff  (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-29-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. This also presumes that the time traveler is a white male. n/t

Ahhh race baiting..always a debate point to a DUmmy.

QuestionAll  (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-29-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. so- you can't come up with any...?
   all this ranting and raving by people about lost civil liberties- and yet when asked- they can't think of any either.

Begging for granite.

QuestionAll  (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-29-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. i've been there, and there's no there there. i don't believe in ghosts...
   Edited on Fri Feb-29-08 07:24 PM by QuestionAll
and i've never been all that afraid of my own shadow.

question all means just that.
and applies equally to the paranoid loonies that also inhabit the side i'm on.

I almost fainted.

QuestionAll  (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-29-08 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. you honestly think that "they" are listening in on YOUR phone conversations and reading YOUR emails?
   wow.
i smoke A LOT of pot, and even i'm not THAT paranoid.

cameras on "every major street corner in America"...   -you're kidding about that one, right? when i lived in chicago(til last year) there are cameras in some of the drug-dealing neighborhoods, and a few red-light cams, but nowhere NEAR having cameras "on every major street corner"- that's just a silly statement.

you are WAAAAY too paranoid.

Whoever this is sure is poking a stick.

It is worth a look at the thread but the bottom line is that no one could defend the position of lost freedoms and could come up with nothing but regurgitated loony conspiricy theories.

[BlueStateSaint]

Poking a stick?  More like swinging a baseball bat at the hive.

[franksolich]

Wow.

That's incredible.

And the credentials and popularity of the questionable primitive are rock-solid.

But all the unterprimitiven ignored the question.

The unterprimitiven must have been otherwise preoccupied reading the American Nana primitive's latest cheerleading rant; her rants always allege we've lost freedoms, but then the American Nana primitive never gets around to citing any of those freedoms we've lost.

And for the record, the American Nana primitive is getting perilously close to her seventh decade of life; it's long past time for her to send her cheerleading outfit to the mothballs.

[VivisMom]

We are being taught to fear asylum seekers, climate change, crazed terrorists and even each other.

You can thank your buddy Al Bore and his completely bogus Nobel Prize for that one, Einstein.  

[NHSparky]

I'm inevitably reminded of a kindlier, gentler world

Wow--there's a primitive who's fundamentally ignorant of history.  The world has ALWAYS been a dangerous nasty place.  Only in your little comfy shell, cowering in your corner, is it "kinder" or "gentler".

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Linda Heard and her cattle.

[daveman]

QuestionAll  (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-29-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. so- you can't come up with any...?
   all this ranting and raving by people about lost civil liberties- and yet when asked- they can't think of any either.

DU's response:

[jukin]

For all the DUmbasses that use 1984 as an argument, they sure don't understand the basis for the book.  Nor do they grasp that it is all about the evils of socialism/communism. 

Can one imagine what they DUchebags would believe if they were not the mostest giftest and talentest in the country....nay world.

[MrsSmith]

I think they forget that the greatest loss of liberty has been from the rules the left forces upon us...
seat belt laws
smoking laws
political correctness
silencing Christian speech
silencing political speech
silencing those that threaten to change current scientific beliefs

Yet they fret because our government can look at phone records or check up on calls to terrorist countries...or could, since the left has now failed to pass FISA.

[mamacags]

I haven't lost a single right since I gained rights.

[Attero Dominatus]

I think they forget that the greatest loss of liberty has been from the rules the left forces upon us...
seat belt laws
smoking laws
political correctness
silencing Christian speech
silencing political speech
silencing those that threaten to change current scientific beliefs

The left hates freedom and individuality in general. The DUmmies project like an Imaxx.

[Carl]

I think they forget that the greatest loss of liberty has been from the rules the left forces upon us...
seat belt laws
smoking laws
political correctness
silencing Christian speech
silencing political speech
silencing those that threaten to change current scientific beliefs

Yet they fret because our government can look at phone records or check up on calls to terrorist countries...or could, since the left has now failed to pass FISA.

Which is an excellent point.
I don`t want to take anyones freedoms away unless they are actively seeking to do me direct or indirect harm,real harm not a assault on my sensitivities harm.

That includes the DUmmies,I think the best thing we could have is them spouting their inanity for all the public to see.

I really don`t think there are many of them that have the same feeling towards us and think if given the chance they would do all and everything they could to silence us.
Pretty much all the false paranoia they have towards conservatives is based on what they would do so they fear it directed at them.

[daveman]

I think they forget that the greatest loss of liberty has been from the rules the left forces upon us...
seat belt laws
smoking laws
political correctness
silencing Christian speech
silencing political speech
silencing those that threaten to change current scientific beliefs

Yet they fret because our government can look at phone records or check up on calls to terrorist countries...or could, since the left has now failed to pass FISA.

Which is an excellent point.
I don`t want to take anyones freedoms away unless they are actively seeking to do me direct or indirect harm,real harm not a assault on my sensitivities harm.

That includes the DUmmies,I think the best thing we could have is them spouting their inanity for all the public to see.

I really don`t think there are many of them that have the same feeling towards us and think if given the chance they would do all and everything they could to silence us.
Pretty much all the false paranoia they have towards conservatives is based on what they would do so they fear it directed at them.

[Airwolf]

QuestionAll  (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-29-08 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. a time traveller from 1920 would at least be able to get a legal drink...
   couldn't do that under prohibition...

btw- what freedoms have we lost that the 1920 guy would have had...?


That's easy sparky. The left has done everythingthey can to take rights away. I won't go over whats already been said but the first right they took away from Americans right after the 1920s and 1930s was the right to own a machine gun which until that time was perfectly legal and was not the huge problem propagated by the Media and used as the excuse to get the National Firearms Act of 1934 pushed through. ever since then its been the lefts sole mission to see that we lose all the rest with the same lies and distortions used when this whole anti gun movement started here in the US. 

[redwhit]

That time traveller from 1920 would also lose the right to smoke the dummies' beloved pot - I don't think that was outlawed until the mid 1930s.

[ReardenSteel]

QuestionAll

- "btw- what freedoms have we lost that the 1920 guy would have had...?"

- "all this ranting and raving by people about lost civil liberties- and yet when asked- they can't think of any either."

- "question all means just that. and applies equally to the paranoid loonies that also inhabit the side i'm on."

- "i smoke A LOT of pot, and even i'm not THAT paranoid."

A thoughtful DUmmie?!? (besides operationmindcrime who I thought was the sole exception who proved the rule)

[OkieJohn]

Hate to show my age, but:

You could order a Thompson machine gun  from the Sears and Roebuck catalog.
You could carry a weapon in most parts of the country.
You could ride your motorcycle or car on Millions of acres of public land.
You could hunt year round, without a license.
You could prospect any where you wanted.
If you found a treasure, it was yours.
You could drive a car without a license, and there were no tags in most of the country.
You could pay off your house and no more taxes were owed.
Most taxes were a one time thing, not recurring like they are now.
You could make a good living selling snake oil.
You could search for oil anywhere.
There were no speed limits in most of the country.
You could leave you business or farm to your children, without government intervention or taxes.
There were no enviro people, and all their laws.
All drugs were legal, and heron was a big problem.
There were no death taxes.
People in California were sane.
Horses killed more people than cars.
You could build your own house, and no inspections.
If you won or inherited money it was all yours, not the gubments.
You could beat the hell out of any communist and the police would help you.

Well that's enough for now.  Glad I don't post on DU.



 

[Freeper]

For all the DUmbasses that use 1984 as an argument, they sure don't understand the basis for the book.  Nor do they grasp that it is all about the evils of socialism/communism. 

Can one imagine what they DUchebags would believe if they were not the mostest giftest and talentest in the country....nay world.

Actually Orwell was a socialist so it is kind of ironic that he wrote 1984 like he did. I am guessing he didn't see the connection of socialism and totalitarianism.Since he was against totalitarianism.

political views shifted over time, but he was a man of the political left throughout his life as a writer. In his earlier days he occasionally described himself as a "Tory anarchist". His time in Burma made him a staunch opponent of imperialism, and his experience of poverty while researching Down and Out in Paris and London and The Road to Wigan Pier turned him into a socialist. "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it," he wrote in 1946.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Orwell