primitives disappointed in the gentlewoman from Maine

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8656340

Oh my.

In case one's missed the news the last few minutes, Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) has gone over to the right side, leaving no Republicans, no Republicans period, supporting health care "reform."  Alas! the poor Demos--it's now all their baby.

jefferson_dem  (1000+ posts)        Wed Sep-16-09 07:18 AM
Original message
 
Snowe falls away. Reid says Dems prepared to use reconciliation as last resort. 

Snowe falls away, leaving Senate Dems without GOP health support

Senate Democrats are going to have to move forward on healthcare without a single Republican supporter after Sen. Olympia Snowe said Tuesday she could not back the Finance Committee’s bill.

<SNIP>

Democrats control 59 seats in the Senate. Without a single Republican vote, they would be forced to advance healthcare using a budgetary maneuver that requires only a simple majority.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said Tuesday that Democrats are prepared to use budget reconciliation as a last resort.

“We’ve always had a place at the table for Republicans. There’s one there today. We hope it bears fruit,” he said. “If we can’t get the 60 votes we need, then we’ll have no alternative but to use reconciliation.”

Axelrod told senators that passing healthcare reform would give them a boost in the 2010 midterm election, according to a person who attended the meeting.

Axelrod also said that polls showed that public disapproval over Democratic reform proposals — which swelled in June and July — leveled off during the month of August, despite the publicity attracted by conservative protests, said another source in the meeting.

Axelrod’s speech seemed aimed at Democratic centrists who are concerned about the failure to attract Snowe

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/58929-democrats-to-g...

Kolesar  (1000+ posts)        Wed Sep-16-09 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
 
1. Does that mean that Sen. Snowe is going to filibuster the Finance Committee’s bill?

If she had any taste, she could skip the filibuster and let it go to a vote. She does not have to vote for it if she is so "principled".

BzaDem  (1000+ posts)        Wed Sep-16-09 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
 
3. I doubt it.

This is probably a negotiating tactic. She wants good policy, and reconciliation (due to procedural hurdles) will make the policy result much worse.

CreekDog  (1000+ posts)      Wed Sep-16-09 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
 
14. She wants good policy but then wants it to cost the same as bad policy

MichellesBFF  (248 posts)      Wed Sep-16-09 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
 
2. And if they actually WANT to fillibuster?

Make them read the phone book, and pee in peanut butter jars!

elocs  (1000+ posts)        Wed Sep-16-09 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
 
4. Reality check: a filibuster is not "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/23/the-myth-of-th...

Reid's office has studied the history of the filibuster and analyzed what options are available. The resulting memo was provided to the Huffington Post and it concludes that a filibustering Senator "can be forced to sit on the floor to keep us from voting on that legislation for a finite period of time according to existing rules but he/she can't be forced to keep talking for an indefinite period of time."

Bob Dove, who worked as a Senate parliamentarian from 1966 until 2001, knows Senate rules as well as anyone on the planet. The Reid analysis, he says, is "exactly correct." To get an idea of what the scene would look like on the Senate floor if Democrats tried to force Republicans to talk out a filibuster, turn on C-SPAN on any given Saturday. Hear the classical music? See the blue carpet behind the "Quorum Call" logo? That would be the resulting scene if Democrats forced a filibuster and the GOP chose not to play along.

As both Reid's memo and Dove explain, only one Republican would need to monitor the Senate floor. If the majority party tried to move to a vote, he could simply say, "I suggest the absence of a quorum."

The presiding officer would then be required to call the roll. When that finished, the Senator could again notice the absence of a quorum and start the process all over. At no point would the obstructing Republican be required to defend his position, read from the phone book or any of the other things people associate with the Hollywood version of a filibuster. "You cannot force senators to talk during a filibuster," says Dove. "Delay in the Senate is not difficult and, frankly, the only way to end it is through cloture."

high density  (1000+ posts)      Wed Sep-16-09 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
 
5. Silent or not, it remains Republicans obstructing an up or down vote

And if it's only one of them sitting there, that's going to look awfully bad to an electorate that wants health reform and has a low opinion of Republicans to begin with.

Oh, I dunno.

We'll see.

Nicholas D Wolfwood  (1000+ posts)        Wed Sep-16-09 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
 
11. Don't bother - I've tried to explain this countless times.

You'll probably get shouted down by the end of the day, perhaps even called a corporatist or DLC axman.

elocs  (1000+ posts)        Wed Sep-16-09 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
 
13. Right, it seems many DUers preferred view of things is divorced from reality.

I posted this before also but there are those who prefer the quaint and Hollywoodized version of the Senate filibuster.

unblock (1000+ posts)        Wed Sep-16-09 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
 
6. no no no. snowe MELTS away!

InAbLuEsTaTe (1000+ posts)      Wed Sep-16-09 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
 
7. Do it already!

Hepburn  (1000+ posts)      Wed Sep-16-09 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
 
8. Reconcil to WHAT bill with WHICH terms?

Not that bullshit from Max that is nothing more than a HUGE bonus for the insurance companies, right?

Put the public option and other necessary terms back in prior to this... at least I am hoping this is what is going on.

PS: **** Snowe.

tekisui  (1000+ posts)        Wed Sep-16-09 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
 
9. DO IT!

graywarrior  (1000+ posts)      Wed Sep-16-09 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
 
12. DO IT!

Just god damn do it already!!!!

Oh my.  The primitives are angry.

[NHSparky]

Face it, when you lose a RINO like Snowe, who is actually to the LEFT of some Dem Senators, those on the left have to know they're screwed.

[franksolich]

Face it, when you lose a RINO like Snowe, who is actually to the LEFT of some Dem Senators, those on the left have to know they're screwed.

Yep.

[BlueStateSaint]

Yep.

Not only that, but as I posted in another thread here, Jay Rockefeller is against the bill.  If you lose him, hang it up--you ain't getting it.

[USA4ME]

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said Tuesday that Democrats are prepared to use budget reconciliation as a last resort.

Essentially it's the same thing as the nuclear option; within the rules (in this case very bent rules) but outside the traditional protocol of the Senate.  Think he's stupid enough to do it?

.

[Chris_]

Essentially it's the same thing as the nuclear option; within the rules (in this case very bent rules) but outside the traditional protocol of the Senate.  Think he's stupid enough to do it?

.

Yes.

[Tantal]

Think he's stupid enough to do it?

Dumb question. Harry Reid is the bottomless pit of stupid. The only upside is that most of the elements of the bill don't go into effect until 2013, so the 2010 Congress or the new President can always undo it.

[USA4ME]

We'll see if he's willing to open up Pandora's Box.  If he does, no doubt the Law of Unintended Consequences will eventually bite the Dems.

.

[Karin]

Look at Graywarrior and some of the others up there.  "Just ******* do it!!!!!!"  Are they really sure about that?  These bills continue to contain the mandate that they absolutely HATE.   

Rasmussen is saying today that in Nevada, Harry is trailing his Republican challengers, 50 or 53 to his 40.  (Tarkanian has the 53).  I ran across a post once rallying for "Ten for Tarkanian!"  I never followed through, think I will.  I did my Pete Wilson donation today, he has raised $1,740,315 so far.  $6K in the last hour.