primitive doesn't want former supervisor contacted

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=362x804

Oh my.

drm604  (1000+ posts)        Mon Aug-31-09 12:54 PM
Original message

Applying for a job where I'd prefer that they don't talk to my previous supervisor.

How?

I've never had any real personality conflicts with co-workers up until my last position. I'm not sure if the supervisor didn't like me or if he was simply incompetent. He would leave things out of my instructions and when I didn't perform the task correctly he would say that he had given me the complete instructions. He was a long time supervisor and I was the new guy, so you know how that went.

I had two strikes against me and I was heading for a third which would have led to termination. Rather than be terminated for cause I quit the job and started putting my full time efforts into what had been my side business.

I was starting to have some success with the business when the economic problems happened. Since then I've been losing money and I'm now near the end of my resources.

Because of this, I'm once again looking for full time employment. My concern is that employers, understandably, want to know about previous employment and will often want to contact previous employers. I am good at what I do (when I'm not sabotaged, obviously) and have very good references available from my job previous to my most recent job.

I'd prefer not to have potential employers talk with my manager from my most recent employment. I'm currently filling out an employment application for a job for which I am qualified and which would be perfect for me in many ways - very short commute, etc. It's asking for past work experience. One of the questions for each past employer is "May we contact your previous supervisor for a reference?". It has "Yes" and "No" for the choices.

It strikes me that checking "No" for my most recent supervisor is obviously a bad idea, but checking "Yes" is also obviously a bad idea.

Any suggestions on how to handle this? I've been told that I should never talk bad about a previous employer or supervisor, which seems like very sensible advice. So how can I convince them to rely on my references from my next to last position? Do I check "Yes" or "No" on the question and, if I check "No" how do I explain the answer?

Well, it's true that some people are screwed by former supervisors, but we're talking a primitive here, and so one has to take this tale of woe with a grain of salt.

drm604  (1000+ posts)        Mon Aug-31-09 03:52 PM
Response to Original message

1. Kick.

No advice?

This bonfire should have been lit in "General Discussion," where the hip cool trendy with-it primitives hang out, rather than in the jobs forum, where no primitive dares to go.

tinymontgomery  (1000+ posts)      Mon Aug-31-09 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
 
2. You could put 

You could put contact me prior to contacting previous employer. Then you get the opening statement. Don't bad mouth the person but you could just say the personality for the job wasn't working out for a good relationship so the best thing you could do was move on to help everyone out, or something to that effect. Stating that there was a conflict isn't bad mouthing, that is the most important part of it. 

drm604  (1000+ posts)        Tue Sep-01-09 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
 
3. They will be seeing me prior to contacting him.

The interview is tomorrow and they emailed the employment application which I've filled out and will be taking with me. I'm really hesitant to say that there was a personality conflict. In this economy I probably have lots of competition for the job so any hint that I might not fit in could count against me if it were to come down to me and one other person.

After I posted this a friend suggested that former managers are very reluctant to bad mouth previous employees these days. This may be especially true in this case since this was a large corporation. The odds are pretty good that all he'll tell them is that I did work for them. I'm going to put down the phone number for HR for the contact number in the hope that they may get a noncommittal confirmation of my employment from them and then go no further.

I spent 9 years at the job before that one and I have three excellent references from there. Hopefully that will make the difference.

[BadCat]

After I posted this a friend suggested that former managers are very reluctant to bad mouth previous employees these days.

NO WE ARE NOT.

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

Hmmmm! When I was a manager all I could ever do was give the dates of employment. I was under the impression that legally that was all you were allowed to do?

[BannedFromDU]

NO WE ARE NOT.

     It depends on the question asked and the potential for absolutely truthful and unbiased disclosure. Hiring managers can be sued for what they ask, and references can be sued for what they say. That's why some employers have very specific, yes/no questions scripted for those who check references.

     That said, it seems clear that this DUmmy's ex-boss was simply a Republican.

[Texacon]

NO WE ARE NOT.

 

I wonder if said DUmmie ..... provided its employee with health insurance, paid days off, sick days, etc ...

 

KC

[DumbAss Tanker]

Hmmmm! When I was a manager all I could ever do was give the dates of employment. I was under the impression that legally that was all you were allowed to do?

It has lots more to do with your company's policy than it does law.  On the law side, it is quite possible to say things that will get you or your organization in trouble, if stray away from just whether the person had the skills to do the job and how well they did it, reason they left, etc. - they open themselves up to that by checking 'Yes' on the new app.  Here are some things that it would be a really good idea NOT to say if contacted:

"She kept popping out babies, she was hardly ever here."

"That guy filed EEO complaint on top of complaint, we wasted months of time on them."

"She worked fine, but she was a total slut.  If your office needs one, snap her up!"

 

[IassaFTots]

Having worked in the HR arena for quite a while now, I have found that most companies do have restrictions, on who can do a reference, and what they can say.  I will say that most places do advise dates of hire, and last title held.  The End.  I have been known in the past to "sigh" when a future employer asks about a poor employee, or just pause a lot.  On the other hand, I have also told that employer to tell a former good employee that I wish them well and to keep in touch. 

[Chris_]

It has lots more to do with your company's policy than it does law.  On the law side, it is quite possible to say things that will get you or your organization in trouble, if stray away from just whether the person had the skills to do the job and how well they did it, reason they left, etc. - they open themselves up to that by checking 'Yes' on the new app.  Here are some things that it would be a really good idea NOT to say if contacted:

"She kept popping out babies, she was hardly ever here."

"That guy filed EEO complaint on top of complaint, we wasted months of time on them."

"She worked fine, but she was a total slut.  If your office needs one, snap her up!"

 

Which is why most employers now pretty much confine it to:

Tenure
Last position held
And the most important question:  Would you rehire......

doc

[jukin]

After I posted this a friend suggested that former managers are very reluctant to bad mouth previous employees these days.

For me it not worth the risk. I give dates of employment and mention that I would not hire them again.

[Texacon]

For me it not worth the risk. I give dates of employment and mention that I would not hire them again.

Which is incredibly sad.  An employer should be able to give an honest assessment of a former employees work.  It hurts those who were, in fact, outstanding employees.

KC

[Traveshamockery]

Having worked in the HR arena for quite a while now, I have found that most companies do have restrictions, on who can do a reference, and what they can say.  I will say that most places do advise dates of hire, and last title held.  The End.  I have been known in the past to "sigh" when a future employer asks about a poor employee, or just pause a lot.  On the other hand, I have also told that employer to tell a former good employee that I wish them well and to keep in touch. 

Now that's a good one - heavy sighs and pauses are code for a bad employee. 

 

[The Village Idiot]

Back when I was working at a grocery store I remember a guy fired for theft. THEFT. Our manager gave him a positive reference for a job as a SECURITY GUARD.

[IassaFTots]

Now that's a good one - heavy sighs and pauses are code for a bad employee. 

 

Yeah.  It doesn't "read" very well, but can be quite effective on the phone.