Nate K
Senior Member About:
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 330
How we can SECEDE from the Union!!
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It's really not that hard, if you focus on what would need to be done in order for this to happen, it's very doable.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how I'm pretty sure it works..
There is the State House and the State Senate, just like in the National Congress. Each state has a different amount of representatives and senators, that to my knowledge is NOT based on population.
If we control both sides and agree to secede from the Union, what's stopping us? Will America go to war? If enough states do so, I highly doubt it!
Now if my theory is correct, we ought to use some strategy here, and look at the number of representatives and senators in each state that would enable us to get the most in! Now what would be better for us, a state with a large General Assembly based on population or a smaller one?
Here are some key states I think we should focus on (especially Texas) and their General Assembly number:
New Hampshire: 24 in the Senate and 400 in the House. Population: est. 1.4 million
Vermont: 30 in the Senate and 150 in the House. Population: est. 650,000
Texas: 31 in the Senate and 150 in the House. Population:24 million
Montana: 50 in the Senate and 100 in the House. Population: 1 million.
Have another state in mind? Post it and I'll look it up. I'm getting this info from the 2008 Almanac.
What does this mean for you? Well this all means start preparing for state government!! State government at this point, if you look at it from this angle, much more powerful than federal. Are you interested in politics? Do you feel that you could serve your constituents? Are you a well enough speaker for the job? If you answer any of these with a yes, YOU SHOULD RUN FOR AT LEAST STATE HOUSE. If you are well qualified (ex. Master's Degree, great speaker, etc.) you should run for State Senate.
Are you not interested enough in politics or that field of study? That's ok too!! You can donate to the people running in your state, which is just as important!
Let's use an example here for Texas (a state we should all focus on).. A representative for Texas serves approx. 160,000 people. (24,000,000/ 150) That means you would need to have decent funds/ donors in that state to win, my guess is around 100-150k.
However!, in New Hampshire a state representative serves 3, 500 people!! (1,400,000/ 400). You would need little funds to win that state!
So why secede in the first place?
Because it may just be a whole lot simpler concentrating our efforts in a few states or even one state, rather than trying to focus on the corruption of the whole country! PLUS, this is a plan that is not expected by the elites, this will have them on their toes, and trust me, with enough planning done quickly, we could pull this off.
So what should you do now?? Start sharing ideas in this thread and come up with ideas of your own!!
silverhandorder
Senior Member About:
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 315
We can win our country back to the law of the land.
I am not thinking about this yet until they have SS Troopers reinforcing Martial Law.
There are no SS troopers in the US, just common soldiers and you insult them.
Last I looked shitbird, the SS-types were campaigning for your asshole-in-chief.
nate895
Senior Member About:
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnReconstructed
You must have forgotten this was already tried without success.
I understand, and I also understand that if the US attacks a seceding state, they will be cut off from the rest of the world.
The UN is where it's at, baby.
Nate K
Senior Member About:
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 331
Who will help me make a website dedicated to getting in state government?
Is anyone computer savvy? I need some help!
The Ron Paul rEVOLution will not be
televised webmastered.
Bingo, the feds are in NO condition to take arms against us!!
Think like they do.. they are already planning wars with various other countries, they NEED Canada to help with manpower, do you really think they'd want to turn this into a war?
If everyone on this forum were to focus on this and start working on it, we could turn this situation around and have the elites by their balls! I guarantee it.
Originally Posted by ladyliberty3
What I wonder about is this: How many states get some of their water from other states and is the Fed involved? Do states have their own elec. grid or is it all connected and the Fed involved? What about US Highways that run through all states? What about the national guard in each of those states? What about military bases? and on it goes???????
Those are good questions that we ought to find out through the journey!
nate895:
Well, the power grid is on a regional basis, NE, SE, MW, NW, CA and AK, and HW are the only states to get their own I think. That would be a problem if seceding without aid of other states in the region, that is probably why the South would be best for this kind of movement (hey, they have done it before). The US highways wouldn't be much of a problem, the national guard is controlled directly by the states' governor, so that isn't much of a problem (unless you have a neocon/lib general).
Military bases would be a huge problem in a standoff, but most have minimal amounts of men, and so would surrender pretty quick if the militia was called forth in the states seceding. If you were in the South and secede, Fort Bragg in NC, Fort Knox in KY, Fort Benning in GA, and Norfolk Naval Station would be huge barriers.
Another huge problem in a possible war, is the lack of an Air Force, and of a Navy, and there is only one way to remedy that in a standoff situation.
lukeownzu
Originally Posted by UnReconstructed
You must have forgotten this was already tried without success.
Precisely. Come on people this won't work, the only feasible option is Liberty Island.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=122743
nate895:
The US Army is stationed overseas and has less than 500,000 men in it, the State of California alone would be able to take on the US Army, especially since it would be coming at it piecemeal.
lukeownzu:
Still, your army of 1k soldiers...
abe:
Nate, if there was trouble at home they'd come back. It wouldn't be that easy to defeat them being that they would have all kinds of machinery and weaponry that we don't have access to. They'd slaughter us and we'd lose rather quickly. This ain't the 1860s. But it's never gonna happen so it's kind of useless to argue about.
Nate K:
Well for anyone who is interested in this idea, keep in contact with me.. I will need your help very soon. I already have a website address bought and a strategy plan in place. The process will take awhile and the site should be finished around the end of May. I want this done before the march to unify people even more..
If you want to help in the project, my AIM sn is CelGos. I suggest you download AIM if you don't already have it, it's simple.
And no, I will not be waiting for "another organization" to pop up. I am not compromising my ideas the least. HOWEVER, if these ideas are not liked among this crowd, I'll settle for another one if it stands for everything I do.
If you..
-Believe that this campaign is part of something much much bigger
-Want America to be transformed into EVERYTHING Paul stands for
-Support a secession if the former is not reached
-Want things to be organized soon and in a professional manner..
then you stand for everything I do.
nate895:
Originally Posted by abe
Nate, if there was trouble at home they'd come back. It wouldn't be that easy to defeat them being that they would have all kinds of machinery and weaponry that we don't have access to. They'd slaughter us and we'd lose rather quickly. This ain't the 1860s. But it's never gonna happen so it's kind of useless to argue about.
They would come home, that is true (though many might have mixed loyalties, considering nearly 1/2 of the army is Southern), but it would come home piecemeal, and if you look at my post, this would have to involve preemptive strikes if the Feds meant war, and I would say 100,000 well trained men would able to accomplish what would need to be done.
100,000 well-trained men?
You idiots are DOOMED!!!
Nate K:
Some of you are forgetting, the tactics which are used in war..
I don't like to talk on issues such as war against one's on country, but this is what each side has..
The Feds have..
An organized: Army, Navy and Airforce. However, they wouldn't use most of it because our forces would be mixed in with the general population!!
What we would have and use..
A large, scattered militia throughout the country, much like in the first Revolution (farmers with pitchforks).. It would be guerrilla warfare and they would not be able to take the blows we would give.
If you fear the Feds power, you should leave this forum right now. You've already compromised a Libertarian principle.
nate895:
Because of the national guard system, the states each have their own miniature armies, admittedly, nothing that on their own, could stand up to the might of the US Military, but a combined effort with multiple states striking hard and fast in one area would be able to delay for long enough the ability of the US Military to get organized (96 hours, or the opponent of the US Military is doomed) for the side of liberty to be able to train enough men to be able to force the Feds to capitulate. A guerrilla war is something no one would want to see, as that would mean the utter destruction of the United States, and possibly total economic ruin, enough to put the US in a third world status, it would have to be done conventionally.
The Israelis have a motto for what would need to be done: Strike first, strike hard, strike deep.
It just goes to show you these idiots haven't been paying attention to Iraq...or US military history in general.
Nate K:
Originally Posted by lukeownzu
With the capability of the US military, it would take probably 10 of your soldiers to beat one US soldier, (partly because of equipment, weapons, vehicles, etc.).
Why did we lose in Vietnam then??
Yes it is a total dream that 100,000 men would be able to take on the police forces of Washington, D.C., and the 20,000 airmen over at Andrew's AFB and then move on to take on the Baltimore PD, Philadelphia PD, total and complete dream. Man, I never knew cops had that much fight in them.
Also, did you know if China decided to invade from the Pacific Ocean, there would be no ability to mount an effective resistance until the Mississippi River?
*chortle*
LEK:
Originally Posted by silverhandorder
We can win our country back to the law of the land.
I am not thinking about this yet until they have SS Troopers reinforcing Martial Law.
For his part, President Bush may have implemented a back-up plan last April when he signed National Security Presidential Directive/NSPD 51, an executive order allowing him to suspend the constitution without prior congressional approval. NSPD 51 gives the President the discretion to declare a state of emergency (i.e. martial law) in the event of a major terrorist attack or other “decapitating†incident against the United States, even if the attack happens outside the country. Under this scenario, he can
cancel elections, padlock the Capitol dome and send the Supreme Court justices home. The directive also assigns the President's homeland security assistant ( a low-level position exempt from senate confirmation) to administer what has been dubbed the Enduring Constitutional Government. In other words, another Sept. 11th disaster could reduce this year's election to nothing more than the status of a season of Survivor.
http://thecityedition.com/Pages/Arch...8Election.html
link has Teh Rove!!!
nate895:
Originally Posted by BarryDonegan
you can't secede from the union without the military power to back up the federal response. we are not in a constitutional republic anymore, the power to secede doesn't exist in practice. Since the US Civil War, the Federal Empire of the US defeated the Constitution in a war, and the citizens surrendered to it; this caused international law to recognize the victor government.
the only hope you'd have of making a serious case to seperate from the Empire, would be to get national opponents of the US Empire to back you militarily, then get popular support from everyone in the territory you would like to have secede.
its not a simple process at all, it would require an armed revolt and bloodshed. remember also that thomas jefferson predicted it would be necessary to keep a republic.
What you need is to organize the government prior to the actual secession. The only place you could do that legally would be the South, as the Confederate Government never surrendered, and the governments of the Southern States arguably have no legal authority since they were setup under a state of duress. But, it wouldn't require that foreign countries support us, only the national guard and the people in the US Military who are from the states seceding (if it was the South, the US Military would be on its knees if the Southerners left it). You would have to strike at the US first, you couldn't wait for them to attack.
Thomas Paine:
The Michigan Militia stands ready for duty.
nate895:
Originally Posted by Cowlesy
Since you're a hardcore secessionist, what ideas do you suggest we bring to the forefront?
Well, I would say we bring the idea of liberty to the forefront. The former secessionist movement did not talk about it that much, it was only an attachment to the idea of states' rights, and of history. You'd get the impression that this was a group of people that were still angry of the War for Southern Independence, not fighting for the reasons of liberty, but a sense of duty to country. You also need to make an overt attempt to convert minorities to the movement to get rid of the racist stigma associated with absolutely anything that is associated with the old Confederate States. You would also have to find a way to be able to paint the Federal Government as directly oppressive to the people of the state/region, shouldn't be hard to do, especially considering Katrina and the recent water crisis in the South.
JonathanR:
Those interested in how to fight against a vastly superior US Military should research Paul van Riper and the Millennium Challenge of 2002.
Damn...if only the Iraqi insurgents had read this post before Petraeus got there.
nf7mate:
Larry Kilgore is running for senate in Texas and the centerpiece of his campaign is seceeding from the US.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=123697And on it goes...
