gigantic primitive update (9-15); has trouble with chafing

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=337x4409

Oh my.

The gigantic primitive:

Systematic Chaos  (1000+ posts)      Sun Aug-09-09 09:03 PM
Original message
 
What a difference a change in diet makes (Standard American Diet (SAD) vs. Vegan)

http://www.tickerfactory.com/weight-loss/w5Sn8t8 >My Weight Chart:
>

after which the gigantic primitive's weight chart

In terms of plain text, my weekly progress thus far has been:

June 21, 2009 - 488 (-31 from Dec. 2007 lifetime high)
June 28 - 488 ( 0 )
July 5 - 485 ( -3 )
July 12 - 478 ( -7 )
July 19 - 476 ( -2 )
July 26 - 475 ( -1 )
August 2 - 456 ( -19 )
August 9 - 449 ( -7 )

31 lbs. in 18 months on a typical diet, followed by 39 lbs. in 7 weeks following The McDougall Plan. Sweet!

auntAgonist  (1000+ posts)      Sun Aug-09-09 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
 
1. SWEET doesn't cover it. This is AWESOME news  

You're doing so well. I'm so excited for you. Kirk, you're gonna do it. I can feel it. And you deserve all the praise. It's gonna happen for you. Trust me!

I'm so proud of you my friend. I think of you all the time and hope you're doing well.

Thank you SO much for posting your great results. I'll bet you and Jeanette are just thrilled with this.

Jeanette, the gigantic primitive's wife, is probably thrilled, because if the gigantic primitive keeps on losing weight, pretty soon he'll be able to work for a living, taking some of the load off of her.

justgamma  (1000+ posts)      Mon Aug-10-09 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
 
2. I'm so impressed!

We knew you could do it. One day at a time. That's great progress. We are proud of you!

Right.  One day at a time.  And one day closer to getting a job and supporting the wife.

[LC EFA]

This dude weighed in at five hundred and freaking nineteen pounds ?

I wonder if he realizes that under ObamaCare he'd be shit outta luck in the healthcare department.

[franksolich]

This dude weighed in at five hundred and freaking nineteen pounds ?

I wonder if he realizes that under ObamaCare he'd be shit outta luck in the healthcare department.

I'm a little dubious about the alleged loss of 19 pounds the first week of August.

Although admittedly I could be wrong.

Wouldn't that be life-threatening, losing 19 pounds in a week?

[crockspot]

I'm a little dubious about the alleged loss of 19 pounds the first week of August.

Although admittedly I could be wrong.

Wouldn't that be life-threatening, losing 19 pounds in a week?

Not if he took a crap right before weigh in.

[miskie]

I'm a little dubious about the alleged loss of 19 pounds the first week of August.

Although admittedly I could be wrong.

Wouldn't that be life-threatening, losing 19 pounds in a week?

I would think that at this primitives size, he could lose that just in 'water weight' - which they say is one of the first things to happen - once one reduces the carbohydrates, the body turns to glycogen (spelling ?) which triggers a fairly dramatic drop in pounds. Once the glycogen is gone, then the body goes after the fat, which is where the hard work begins.

I also think this fact of nature is what turns people off of diets - they start off, drop the water weight and think its fantastic then hit a wall once the body transitions to actual fat burning. People get depressed, and stop.

[jtyangel]

Well diets are all about sticking to them. Something tells me the gigantic primitive got far more helpings of grains and fats in the 'SAD diet' before he decided to commit to this. Case in point, the only dietary changes I made involved moderation and healthy eating MOST days and I've lost far more then he has already with a lot less to lose then he had to begin with. He's not acknowledging the fact that it's because he has stuck to the diet that he has lost what he has and because he doesn't recognize that moderation is the key in these things, he probably will fail eventually if he comes off of the Vegan diet because he will allow himself to return to indecency in his eating habits and blame it on his diet when his portion control is the problem. And still, 39 lbs in almost 2 months for someone of that size is not a lot to be honest. That's only a little better then 5% of his body weight. Most peeps can drop 10% in that time frame, again with a lot less to lose.

[franksolich]

And still, 39 lbs in almost 2 months for someone of that size is not a lot to be honest. That's only a little better then 5% of his body weight. Most peeps can drop 10% in that time frame, again with a lot less to lose.

Question, madam, because I never paid attention.

I thought that a loss of 3-4 pounds a week, on any sort of diet or exercise regimen was ideal, but anything beyond that, possibly perilous.

That's why I myself am watching right now, although I'm only a little over a third the size of the gigantic primitive.  With this, uh, issue, in my life at the moment, I've had an utter lack of appetite (although no lack of liquid nutrients), but being otherwise healthy, I'm not concerned about it right now.

I decided the point to where I should get concerned is when I lose more than 3-4 pounds in a week.

Is this true, or no?

[jtyangel]

I'm a little dubious about the alleged loss of 19 pounds the first week of August.

Although admittedly I could be wrong.

Wouldn't that be life-threatening, losing 19 pounds in a week?

Not at his weight, Frank. He probably will have very significant losses (or should) for the first few months at his weight. Once he drops below 300, I think it will go a lot slower for him. Then the true test of his will would begin. I've been doing what I have for about 22 months now and it takes an awful lot of tenacity to continue difficult workouts and eating properly when you feel like there is very little payoff. Eventually he will have to switch how he thinks about things and realize there are some things done to maintain his healthy and not for accolades or hi 5s over the number on the scale. The rewards are subtle when the outside doesnt change anymore and they are just knowing you are doing good things for you body and overall health. For a lot of people, those aren't reward enough.

[AprilRazz]

I would assume as well due to the gigantic primitives size that even a semi brisk walk would be difficult if not dangerous. Those that are morbidly obese have already taxed their cardiovascular systems to the breaking point. Not to mention the type 2 diabetes that I am 99.9999% positive that he has. I would hope that he is on this diet under the supervision of a physician.
I would encourage the gigantic primitive to seek the counsel of a good dietitian to learn about healthy eating habits and exercise. It is indeed a lifestyle change but a good one. I am not a big one on diets that are not based on healthy well balanced meals. If you cut out carbs you do indeed loose the weight but it is not a diet that one can maintain indefinitely. One needs to learn about portion control and food choices. I see these commercials for weight loss programs all the time and they sell you the food but don't teach you how to eat once you have lost the weight. Thus once you go off the diet you put it back on. The only one that comes close to actual instruction is Weight Watchers.
Several small well balanced meals a day and a sensible workout routine is the best bet for long term weight loss and maintenance. I have counseled patients on this all the time and the ones that followed my advice lost the weight and have a new lease on life.
I wish the gigantic primitive the best of luck on his new life.

[jtyangel]

Question, madam, because I never paid attention.

I thought that a loss of 3-4 pounds a week, on any sort of diet or exercise regimen was ideal, but anything beyond that, possibly perilous.

That's why I myself am watching right now, although I'm only a little over a third the size of the gigantic primitive.  With this, uh, issue, in my life at the moment, I've had an utter lack of appetite (although no lack of liquid nutrients), but being otherwise healthy, I'm not concerned about it right now.

I decided the point to where I should get concerned is when I lose more than 3-4 pounds in a week.

Is this true, or no?

It really depends on your current weight, Frank. At his size, his body can afford to dump the excess and his loss is likely to be significant compared to a man who weighs 180 and is trying to lose 5 or 10 lbs.

I lost far more when I was heavier then I do now. 3 to 4 lbs for me, for example, would not be wise at this point.

Men also lose weight quicker and at a greater rate it seems then women do. Women's bodies want to hold fat for biologically evident reasons.

Perhaps focusing on percentage of body weight lost makes it more relevant?

10% loss of body weight is 43 lbs for the gigantic primitive at this point, but 10% loss for you might be 20 lbs. Let's say you were to lose that over 8 weeks. That would be approx. 6 lbs a week for the gigantic primitive, but a little over 2 lbs a week for you. You just can't speak in pure poundage, Frank. The before weight of an individual has to be considered in weight loss, as well as their amount of lean muscle mass and general weight distribution. Someone with a lot of lean muscle mass usually has to forgo a standard BMI chart in favor of measurements. For example, I'm overweight on the BMI chart still, but I'm considered a normal measurement around my waist. Because of this, I've had to adjust my weight loss expectations down and had to concentrate on things other then pounds lost.

I've digressed a bit and I'm sorry. I also apologize for jumping in so many of these threads. I've taken a huge interest in this subject anymore. To the point that I am actually working on some certifications to work in the field. Funny how life's experiences take folks on twists and turns in the road. I would never have dreamed of being here 2 years ago. Hopefully, the gigantic primitive gets to that point eventually too. I'm a bit concerned though about his attitude that his diet is the answer. Aprilrazz pinned the problem with seeing a specific diet as an end all.

[franksolich]

I also apologize for jumping in so many of these threads. I've taken a huge interest in this subject anymore. To the point that I am actually working on some certifications to work in the field.

Damn, no need to apologize, madam; you know your stuff, and have been an enlightenment to many of us.

I just thought 19 pounds a bit much--that's almost three pounds a day--in a week.

I'm too hoping very badly the gigantic primitive succeeds, so that he can get to work and take some of the load off his wife.

[jtyangel]

Damn, no need to apologize, madam; you know your stuff, and have been an enlightenment to many of us.

I just thought 19 pounds a bit much--that's almost three pounds a day--in a week.

I'm too hoping very badly the gigantic primitive succeeds, so that he can get to work and take some of the load off his wife.

I have a feeling, like someone else mentioned, that he might have lost a lot of water weight that week, Frank. It's not unusual when one starts a weight loss plan. It was probably the first week he was really diligent about his food and water intake and he lost oodles of weight. If you ever have the time, look at some of the stories of bariatric patients. They experience the same thing in the first couple of weeks especially. Happens on the show the Biggest Loser too. The first week they lose a TON of weight and then they hit a wall the second week.

[AprilRazz]

I have a feeling, like someone else mentioned, that he might have lost a lot of water weight that week, Frank. It's not unusual when one starts a weight loss plan. It was probably the first week he was really diligent about his food and water intake and he lost oodles of weight. If you ever have the time, look at some of the stories of bariatric patients. They experience the same thing in the first couple of weeks especially. Happens on the show the Biggest Loser too. The first week they lose a TON of weight and then they hit a wall the second week.

The interesting thing is I have seen quite a few bariatric patients hospitalized for malnutrition.
I am not a big fan of the BMI scale. It only uses height and weight but as you said does not take into account anything else. I have seen men with not an ounce of fat on them be categorized as overweight on the BMI scale. It is outdated and was never that accurate to begin with. Unfortunately the military still uses it.
Measurements of the neck, abdomen and hips as well as the dreaded scale to a point are the better measures. The best scale of all is how you feel. People that loose weight in a sensible manner tend to feel better, have more energy and are less prone to illness. Top that off with a better self image and you can't do any better.
As far as hitting that wall that is where most people give up. But that is the best time. Your body is adjusting and is kind of learning to deal with the changes. The ones that break though that wall are the most successful.
Best of luck to anyone who is attempting to better themselves with weight loss and a healthy lifestyle. It is one of the best things you can do for yourself. As they say at least you have your health.

[jtyangel]

The interesting thing is I have seen quite a few bariatric patients hospitalized for malnutrition.
I am not a big fan of the BMI scale. It only uses height and weight but as you said does not take into account anything else. I have seen men with not an ounce of fat on them be categorized as overweight on the BMI scale. It is outdated and was never that accurate to begin with. Unfortunately the military still uses it.
Measurements of the neck, abdomen and hips as well as the dreaded scale to a point are the better measures. The best scale of all is how you feel. People that loose weight in a sensible manner tend to feel better, have more energy and are less prone to illness. Top that off with a better self image and you can't do any better.
As far as hitting that wall that is where most people give up. But that is the best time. Your body is adjusting and is kind of learning to deal with the changes. The ones that break though that wall are the most successful.
Best of luck to anyone who is attempting to better themselves with weight loss and a healthy lifestyle. It is one of the best things you can do for yourself. As they say at least you have your health.

I can see that with the bariatric patients. I remember reading of a man who could not stop losing once he got to a healthy weight. Couldn't hold anything down. It seems like a desperate thing to do, imo, since some of the operations make permanent changes to the stomach. I never went this route, nor did I need to. From the amount of food they can consume though and the amount of supplements I've heard have to be taken to keep proper vitamins and minerals running through the body: I can believe that malnutrition can be an issue. I suppose I used it as an example of where a person is forced to make dietary changes and the weight loss that ensues, but people who approach it on their own often lose a lot initially too. Maybe not 19 lbs, but 5 or 6 lbs the first week is not unheard of in someone obese. I can't help but feel for people who get bit in the butt when they take the measures like bariatric surgery to remedy somethign that really is well within their control.

Absolutely agree with you on the BMI thing. I'm at the point where I know I will always be considered overweight on that scale according to what shows up on the scale, however the size of clothes I would fit into is indicative of a woman at a normal weight. Craziness, the BMI scale. I don't use it for myself, but I know it still gets thrown around in the whole obesity discussion

Can't argue with anything here, april!  And I agree with you on the wall. I hit one over the last couple of months. Broke through it about 2 weeks ago. Oddly, it took taking a short workout break(just a few days) and allowing a bit more calorie intake during those days to 're-tweak' it. The human body is an odd and amazing thing! And sensible is the way to go! It's tough, that's for sure. I've found though when you realize the things you can do, both mentally and physically, with pure determination and drive...well, it's just a huge boost to one's overall sense of well-being and confidence. I wish more people would stick it through and even challenge themselves physically more. It's very rewarding. And I've found it a wonderful balance between the academic pursuits and the physical.

 

[JohnnyReb]

The JohnnyReb diet for DUmmies.....Lose weight fast....refuse foodstamps and free food from foodbanks....eat grass clippings from the dog run....get worms....become skin and bones in no time.

....or turn yourself in at the "report a disbeliever" snitch site and go to one of the many fabulous Obama camps.

[Wineslob]

Aprilrazz pinned the problem with seeing a specific diet as an end all.

 
I hope the Gigantic one can find a way to change his eating habits so that he won't kill himself. It's habits that are hard to break.

[The Village Idiot]

Damn, no need to apologize, madam; you know your stuff, and have been an enlightenment to many of us.

I just thought 19 pounds a bit much--that's almost three pounds a day--in a week.

I'm too hoping very badly the gigantic primitive succeeds, so that he can get to work and take some of the load off his wife.

Thats a lot of weightloss playing video games.... might have gotten a Wii?

[franksolich]

Update.

Systematic Chaos  (1000+ posts)      Mon Aug-17-09 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
 
5. Fun with Water Weight Roulette: The Lasix Saga Continues.

June 21, 2009 - 488 (-31 from Dec. 2007 lifetime high)
June 28 - 488 (unchanged due to quitting 3 daily doses of diuretics)

July 5 - 485 ( -3 )
July 12 - 478 ( -7 )
July 19 - 476 ( -2 )
July 26 - 475 ( -1 )

August 2 - 456 ( -19 )
August 9 - 449 ( -7 )
August 16 - 454 ( +5 ) (blood pressure low enough to drop lasix completely, but at the expense of some water retention)

I actually ate less this week than last week, when I made a deliberate effort to slow my weight loss just a bit. However, at the same time I decided to get off a medication I seem to be able to live without, so I attribute this week's setback to a bit of water gain. Also, losing 26 pounds over the previous two weeks just wasn't something sustainable given that I'm not really exercising yet. That comes when I break below 400.

Otherwise, I'm doing very well and still thoroughly enjoy the McDougall lifestyle. Last night's dinner was a mushroom dish with a red wine reduction over some quinoa. Delicious!!

I can hardly wait until the gigantic primitive loses enough weight so he can get back to working for a living, so as to take some of the load off his hard-pressed wife.

[GOBUCKS]

I still think it's funny when the DUmmies take diet advice from a guy who weighs a quarter of a ton.

If this guy can't get out of a chair because of being such an enormous tub of lard, how does he get
to the truck scales every week? Normal human being scales don't go that high.

[docstew]

The interesting thing is I have seen quite a few bariatric patients hospitalized for malnutrition.
I am not a big fan of the BMI scale. It only uses height and weight but as you said does not take into account anything else. I have seen men with not an ounce of fat on them be categorized as overweight on the BMI scale. It is outdated and was never that accurate to begin with. Unfortunately the military still uses it.
Measurements of the neck, abdomen and hips as well as the dreaded scale to a point are the better measures. The best scale of all is how you feel. People that loose weight in a sensible manner tend to feel better, have more energy and are less prone to illness. Top that off with a better self image and you can't do any better.
As far as hitting that wall that is where most people give up. But that is the best time. Your body is adjusting and is kind of learning to deal with the changes. The ones that break though that wall are the most successful.
Best of luck to anyone who is attempting to better themselves with weight loss and a healthy lifestyle. It is one of the best things you can do for yourself. As they say at least you have your health.

Only the Navy, to my knowledge, uses BMI.  The Army uses the craptastic "tape" test, where the difference in the measurement of the circumference of your neck and abdomen (for men) is compared on a chart to your height.  For women, the measurements are at the neck, waist, buttocks and wrists.  It's a stupid system that has ruined careers of many perfectly good Soldiers.

That being said, your points about BMI and weight loss in general are accurate.  I find that I'm not really worried about how much I eat, just try to keep to a reasonable portion size (probably about 2500 cal/day, but I'm in an extreme environment right now), and I've been focusing on building muscle mass, as one pound of lean muscle at rest will burn one pound of body fat in 3 days.

[franksolich]

Latest update from the gigantic primitive:

Systematic Chaos  (1000+ posts)       Sun Aug-23-09 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
 
7. Continued progress...

June 21, 2009 - 488 (-31 from Dec. 2007 lifetime high)
June 28 - 488 (unchanged due to quitting 3 daily doses of diuretics)
July 5 - 485 ( -3 )
July 12 - 478 ( -7 )
July 19 - 476 ( -2 )
July 26 - 475 ( -1 )
August 2 - 456 ( -19 ) ** (resumed diuretic and diabetic meds)
August 9 - 449 ( -7 )
August 16 - 454 ( +5 ) (stopped diuretics again due to lowering b.p.)
August 23 - 444 ( -10 ) (nope... can't quit lasix -- I want to but I need to be real)

My experiment in stopping lasix due to acceptable blood pressure readings wasn't such a great idea. I still retain a lot of water in my bad leg due to some vein damage, so I can't tax myself that way. Better a drug than the consequences of further compromised circulation!

I'm still continuing to eat vegan, with no added oil. I feel great except for the pain from my healing leg, so sometimes I have a hard time sleeping, but all-in-all I'm far less miserable than I was 3 months ago!

It's all looking good, and in no time at all, the gigantic primitive should be in fit shape to take on a job, so as to relieve the gigantic primitive's wife of bearing the whole load.

[The Village Idiot]

The minute he starts thinking about a job is the minute he becomes a nervous eater again. Work? How can I work when I have X-Box and PS-3? How am I suppose to think about employment when those dang Republicans are allowed to keep breathing?

[RobJohnson]

The minute he starts thinking about a job is the minute he becomes a nervous eater again. Work? How can I work when I have X-Box and PS-3? How am I suppose to think about employment when those dang Republicans are allowed to keep breathing?

 

[vesta111]

One thing bothers me about this poor person is their insistence that they cannot exercise.

Of course one in a comma cannot exercise but as long as one can move any body part Something can be done.  People in wheel chairs burn calories by working with very light dumb bells , Stretching exercises can be done in a seated or prone position.

You know those classes in health gyms for step dancing,?  I was in a gym and every Tuesday they have classes for the handicapped.

The room was cleared out to make room for the wheel chairs in the back and those who needed to sit were placed in the front of the mirrors.   What fun those folks had for one full hour rocking, swaying and moving any part of their body they could to the beat of the music.

Something about the disabled forgetting their pain while [dancing] was brought up.

Another thing about this person, they are still obsessed with food, the very thing that got them into this mess in the first place.

  A  past neighbor of mine lost 200 lbs in 18 months by just eating 3 TV dinners a day. they lost a bit over 3 lb. a week and went from someone who LIVES to eat to someone who eats to LIVE.  With their plan they could still drink a cold beer each day, go out to dinner twice a month and cheat like heck, amazing the difference it made to them to not feel trapped.

[franksolich]

Uh oh.  A setback, but fortunately it appears to be only minor, almost meaningless.

Systematic Chaos  (1000+ posts)      Sun Sep-06-09 05:58 PM
Response to Original message

11. Had a couple very rough weeks but I think it's cool now....

June 21, 2009 - 488 (-31 from Dec. 2007 lifetime high)
June 28 - 488 (unchanged due to quitting 3 daily doses of diuretics)

July 5 - 485 ( -3 )
July 12 - 478 ( -7 )
July 19 - 476 ( -2 )
July 26 - 475 ( -1 )

August 2 - 456 ( -19 ) ** (resumed diuretic and diabetic meds)
August 9 - 449 ( -7 )
August 16 - 454 ( +5 )
August 23 - 444 ( -10 ) (tried stopping lasix again -- no go)
August 30 - 449 ( +5 )

September 6 - 443 ( -6 )

I seriously have no idea what caused me to gain 5 lbs. last week. Even worse, I had another episode where my left thigh got really tender and immediately afterward my whole body fell ill for two days. It's got to be long-trapped lymph fluid coming loose as weight loss reverses my lymphedema, is all I can guess. That would certainly be toxic enough to throw me for a loop as it works its way out of the body! I spent the entire weekend last week in bed, asleep. Only ate one time, but also only took my medications one time. My blood sugar spiked for a couple of days as a result, but by Wednesday I was on my way back to normal.

At least whatever caused that weight gain, I reversed it plus a pound this past week. I'll take it!

Oh, and I've begun exercising daily too. Just marching in place on the bedroom floor for now, but that recumbent bike of mine is waiting for me to drop under 400 so I can get on and pedal all I want with no impact on my bad foot.

I hope all of you are doing well! Thanks to everyone who has been checking in on me. Sorry I didn't have much to say for a little while. I just needed to get over whatever happened last week and know that my weight was coming down properly again.

Only 49 more pounds to lose, and then the gigantic primitive can dig out and dust off his resume, and start applying for jobs.