cross-bearing carpetbagging maternal ancestress going to try

[franksolich]

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6249172

Oh my.

The mother of the Bostonian Drunkard:

Raven  (1000+ posts)      Fri Aug-07-09 08:48 PM
Original message
 
I'm not sure I'll be able to get through this but I'm going to try: End of Life experiences first hand.

My father left the house on a Friday in 1999 for a routine medical procedure. At the door, he blew a kiss to my mother. He was dead 36 hours later. He was 88 and in good health for his age. He threw a clot which went to his brain. One organ after another began to fail. They tried everything. At 3 in the morning on Sunday the Hospital called and said that me and my brother better come in. His heart had stopped and they had got it going again.

My Dad was hooked up to 5 machines. They were doing everything for him. He was dead...being kept alive only by these machines. We watched the machines and then told the Doctor to let him go. He had no living will, we had no opportunity to have a consult with the Doctor. We made the decision because if we hadn't. the machines would have taken over indefinately...I think we did the right thing but I wish we had been able to talk to my Dad and his Doctor about his wishes well before this crisis.

My Mother had an abdominal blood clot 5 years later. No living will there either. They operated but she never came out of a coma. When I got there she was also was on a multitude of machines. This time we were able to sit with the doctors. There was no hope for her and my brother and I again made the gut wrenching decision that no child wants to make. The doctor told me that many families have a very ahrd time with this because no one has discussed the end of live before the end of life comes. The hospitals, with the technology they have, can keep people alive indefinitely.

In the case of both of my parents, I can still see the scene vividly today and I remeber every moment. I think my brother and I did the right thing but it would have been so much better if there had been that end of life conversation that the health care bill encourages (not mandates) and provides payment for AND encourages Doctors to participate in which they now are so reluctant to do. If there had been that conversation, I would have a little more peace today that I did the right thing by my beloved parents. I would not have felt so alone.

How can anyone with a decent human bone in their body distort the intent of this provision in the health care bill? How, and sleep at night.

Well, having myself had the same experience--but more than twice--as the maternal ancestress, it's very unfortunate that the maternal ancestress had rejected the Wisdom of the Ages, the religion into which she had been born and raised, because that would have made the decision easier, and troubled her less afterwards.

The Rita Hayworth primitive:

Tangerine LaBamba  (1000+ posts)      Fri Aug-07-09 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
 
2. Here's the secret - they're stupid and they're bigots and they're nuts.

Not only are they irate about the idea of a black man in the White House, these people are also terribly biased towards the poor. They are the ones who honestly - honestly - believe that the poor bring their situations upon themselves, and so, do not deserve any kind of break.

They would, with very few exceptions, identify themselves as very good and practicing Christians.

They are just paid shills, retirees (for the most part) reaping the benefits of Medicare and Social Security who do not want anyone they deem undeserving to have what they have. They see it all as a zero-sum game, and they believe that they will lose some of what they have if someone else is helped.

They are, in short, idiots, but in large numbers, they are dangerous, and they must be taken seriously.

They are doing harm, but they don't believe that - and, even if they believed it, they wouldn't care.

You did the right thing with your parents, but how heartbreaking for you and your brother. I'm sure it is exactly as your parents would have wanted, but, still, everyone has to put it in writing or, at the very least, have that conversation. I'm sorry for your loss.

It's now standard procedure, when someone is checking into a hospital, even for an outpatient procedure - at least in the INOVA system - to be asked if you care to fill in a Medical Directive, which is, essentially, a Living Will. Not the best time to consider such things, but, if someone's thought it out, yet not put it into writing, it's a very good thing........................

franksolich's medical directive is that, once reaching a certain stage, the usual and customary and standard principles and ethics of the religion into which he was born and has flourished, be applied, taking precedence over medical and scientific standards.

zbdent  (1000+ posts)      Fri Aug-07-09 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
 
4. they distort the intention because the only thing that counts in their minds is winning ... not helping, not saving ... winning ... period.

Frist didn't have the Religious Reich pounding on his door saying "You must not murder your relative!" like they did on Terri Schiavo's husband. Frist's decision was made by he and his family and the doctor. No government intervention.

About the only person they want to pull off life support is a Dem ... they were likely salivating at the thought of Teddy Kennedy slipping into a short coma so that they could try to show "the hypocrisy of the left!"

Where was Frist's insistence on the sanctity of life when George W. Bush signed legislation which said that an accountant could go against a family's wishes and terminate the life support of someone whose bills couldn't be paid? Frist and the national and Texas "Right to Life" organizations were there cheering on his signature!

Raspberry (105 posts)      Fri Aug-07-09 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
 
10. Living will/advanced planning options were available to your parents, and they chose not to avail themselves of those options. Probably for good reasons.

Have no idea how it will work, (and I don't think anyone actually does yet,) but I don't, and I mean I REALLY don't want some bureaucrat sending me a letter, or coming into my home every 5 years and reminding me that I am 5 years closer to death. I don't think I will need the reminder. I think I will know it. If I choose to ignore it, that's my choice.

rhett o rick  (1000+ posts)        Tue Aug-11-09 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #10
 
25. You are soooo full of bullshit. You say that our parents chose not to avail themselves of those options. Bullshit. You don't know anything about our parents. No one is suggesting (other than you and your Faux news) that a bureaucrat will send you a letter. You have definitely crossed the line. **** off.

The silly primitive:

SoCalDem  (1000+ posts)        Fri Aug-07-09 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
 
11. What I don't understand about this issue is this. 

Have doctors refused to talk to patients because it was a "freebie", or refused because they did not want to appear to be influencing patients?

For doctors who talked to the patients and or families, wouldn't it just be a part of a regular visit, and be billed normally.?

So far no one in my family has been in a situation that warranted such a discussion.

I wish this particular nugget could have just been left out, and instead language inserted that said that all doctor's visits would be covered..then insert the suggestion that doctors counsel patients on the necessity of having living wills and or advanced directives...but the last part could have easily just been added to the physician's booklet.

Giving ANY opportunity to republicans is a dangerous thing.

Raven  (1000+ posts)      Sat Aug-08-09 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
 
21. I have had the same question during this debate. In my mother's case, the doctors took us into a private room and went over everything with us. There was no special appointment. Actually, there was no time for that. I wondered whether this particular provision in the bill was meant to encourage doctors to speak more about these things to their patients and the families. The provision, which represents all that is good and humane about this country has been horribly distorted by the barbarians.

The silly primitive, again:

SoCalDem  (1000+ posts)        Sat Aug-08-09 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #21
 
22. I am a cynic.. I'm afraid this was put in there specifically for a nit-picker to glomb onto and to run with in August.

Nothing happens by accident in politics, and this particular "benefit/whatever" has never been an issue with anyone I have ever known. How it ranked enough importance to be singled out and included in the "no-bill-yet", just in time for the riot season, is highly suspicious to me.

When my best friend lost her son, every morning there was a roundtable of all his doctors, and one by one, they gave her a progress report and actively counseled her, so that she was fully briefed about his condition. For nine long days they did this, and there was never a "separate charge".. It's part of the job description, in my opinion.

Vets do this all the time, so do car mechanics, if you want the mundane.. When they fix your car, they tell you what needs to be done, and what will happen if you do not.. You make the decision, but it's their job to tell you what's going on..

This , I fear is just a poison dart for the anti-s to focus on.

[LC EFA]

I've buried a parent too.

That "end of life" discussion was done internally within the family in my case.

When the admitting staff asked if I wanted them to start life support measures when the time came - I told them not too.

Simple and with no government involvement.

[crockspot]

The belief that machines can keep someone alive indefinitely is simply untrue. My mother had a major aneurysm removed from her heart in 2001. Before my mother went into surgery, she told me "Don't let anybody pull the plug on me." She was conscious and talking a few hours after the surgery, but things started going downhill pretty quickly. Within the day she was on a respirator, started throwing clots, and slowly slipped into a coma, fed through a tube. Her body started shutting down, no digestion noises in her abdomen, signs of gangrene setting into her feet. She lasted three weeks, hooked up to a half dozen machines that were keeping her alive. She finally just died, despite the technology. It was her time. I made sure she got the chance to will herself out of that bed, but she just couldn't do it. I have no regrets about that decision.

[AprilRazz]

DH and I have pretty much the same wishes. Life support only if there is a chance of recovering a life worth living so to speak. If it is our time to go then it is time to go. We have been able to be honest with each other about our wishes and have it in writing as well. My mother on the other hand refuses to discuss this. So if the time ever comes I can just hope that I can make the right choice.
This is also a service that most hospitals offer free of charge and discuss with patients when admitted even for routine procedures.
After seeing the heartbreak in the Shivo (sp) case I can only urge all of you to talk with your loved ones about your wishes and put it in writing. Make sure that your doctor has a copy and you bring another copy to place in your record at the hospital.
Also discuss organ donation as well. I want my organs to go to save a life if mine comes to an unexpected end and that is all spelled out in writing. I would never want my husband to have to make that decision for me.
Of course to die an old lady peacefully in bed would be the way I would prefer to go.

[ReaganForRushmore]

read pages 421 through 425 of  HR3200, it goes further than just a counseling session every five years, it really gets your stomach turning. I had to set the reading aside four times to just ponder what type of cold and callus person would reduce life to such a calculated formula void of empathy or compassion.

[Flame]

Oh, screw you, Raven.  I made that decision when I was 18, ALONE, as my brother and sister were out of the state.  Even at that age, it's something we had discussed as a family.   I made the decision to let her go, rather than to try to resucitate her again and again until my siblings got there.  

It is LIFE, dealing with people passing away.  Yes, it sucks, but it happens to all of us.  

The government does NOT need to be involved in this process at all.  The family can take care of it themselves.