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Offline Wolf

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Total surveillance
« on: August 06, 2009, 03:04:35 PM »
I was reading Robert O' Harrow's book No Place To Hide

A damning indictment of what he sees as our descent, ever since 9/11, into a surveillance society.

How much is too much?

It's my personal view that if you respect authority, you have nothing really to fear. How many people agree?
Many of my friends are concerned about the increasing trend of increased cameras, databases and DNA profiling.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 03:06:59 PM by Wolf »
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Total surveillance
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2009, 03:46:18 PM »
I'll go with #2.  Actually my unease isn't 'Growing,' it is at a steady but not dominant level.  In many areas the good outweighs the bad significantly, and it would also be valid on a cost/benefit basis.   I am aleady situated where satellites are all I would have to sweat if I decided to go over to the Dark Side.  Will Smith's Enemy of the State is a great movie interpretation of this sort of worst-case world.
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Offline Happy Fun Ball

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Re: Total surveillance
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2009, 03:53:08 PM »
I was around 1 and 2 up until this week when that brownshirt site came up. Now it's hovering just below 3.
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Offline Wolf

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Re: Total surveillance
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2009, 04:03:06 PM »
Liberals and conservatives alike have voiced concerns on this subject. I personally feel that a truly law-abiding citizen has nothing to fear from a just constitution. Some of my friends say it isn't that simple.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Total surveillance
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2009, 04:17:50 PM »
Quote from: Wolf on August 06, 2009, 04:03:06 PM
Liberals and conservatives alike have voiced concerns on this subject. I personally feel that a truly law-abiding citizen has nothing to fear from a just constitution. Some of my friends say it isn't that simple.

That's basically the weak link in your thought process on this.
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Go and tell the Spartans, O traveler passing by
That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice.

Offline Wolf

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Re: Total surveillance
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2009, 04:21:43 PM »
You mean that the constitution isn't just?
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Total surveillance
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2009, 04:30:23 PM »
Quote from: Wolf on August 06, 2009, 04:21:43 PM
You mean that the constitution isn't just?

It depends on who is interpreting it. 
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Offline Wolf

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Re: Total surveillance
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2009, 04:30:52 PM »
Yes, I understand.
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Offline Thor

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Re: Total surveillance
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2009, 11:11:10 AM »
The adage, "if you aren't doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to hide" essentially violates the 4th Amendment. Period. We are supposed to be free of unreasonable searches and seizures of our property. Databases do nothing but make work for people and put others on lists. Lists can be used for nefarious reasons.  Cameras have not PREVENTED one single crime. My DNA is MINE. It's NOT for the government to have, use, abuse, manipulate or do whatever else they may wish to do with it. With today's technology, a person's DNA could be placed at a crime scene and they could get wrongfully convicted.
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: Total surveillance
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2009, 12:52:02 PM »
I was at 2 or 3 until theOne got elected. Now I'm scared shitless as I am a gun owner and surely on one if HIS lists!
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Offline LC EFA

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Re: Total surveillance
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2009, 02:40:54 AM »
Quote from: Thor on August 07, 2009, 11:11:10 AM
The adage, "if you aren't doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to hide" essentially violates the 4th Amendment. Period. We are supposed to be free of unreasonable searches and seizures of our property. Databases do nothing but make work for people and put others on lists. Lists can be used for nefarious reasons.  Cameras have not PREVENTED one single crime. My DNA is MINE. It's NOT for the government to have, use, abuse, manipulate or do whatever else they may wish to do with it. With today's technology, a person's DNA could be placed at a crime scene and they could get wrongfully convicted.

The other concern is that what is "wrong" is not set in stone.

This is especially a concern when the government spends so much effort in pursuing precedents that allow them to legislate around the constitutional framework.

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Offline vesta111

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Re: Total surveillance
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2009, 05:50:52 AM »
Quote from: LC EFA on August 08, 2009, 02:40:54 AM
The other concern is that what is "wrong" is not set in stone.

This is especially a concern when the government spends so much effort in pursuing precedents that allow them to legislate around the constitutional framework.



Fear not as long as you do no wrong.

This is perhaps the most dangerous statement used to subdue people.

We also have that "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" 

How are we to reconcile these two statements ??

The only people that manage to stay out of trouble seen to be the sharpies and crooks that know the law inside and out.   Their victims are those who are honest and trusting.

OH Yeah, another crappy old time saying is the " You can't cheat an honest man "   whoever thought that one up was about as crooked as they come--blame the victim.

Don't forget the Carnigie-Mellon- Rockerfella family's of NY that expoused when questioned on why they gave so little to the poor stated,  "Charity begins at home."

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