LLStarks wants to know why normal people don't care for commies and socialists

[tuolumnejim]

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LLStarks  (147 posts)      Sat Jul-25-09 04:38 PM
Original message
Why do conservatives mock communism, marxism, and socialism yet lack an understanding of any?
 I just don't understand the modern day pseudo-McCarthyism.
 

Well how about these for a couple of reasons dipshit! 


 

[franksolich]

Well, I suppose the primitives know even less about communism, socialism, and Marxism, than do decent and civilized people.

[The Village Idiot]

Conservatives and normals usually do understand it better than leftists

[Carl]

They still think it is a utopia that substitutes for a Heaven.

We know and have seen it is this lifes version of Hell.

[Celtic Rose]

Deaths related to Communist Rule according to the black book of communism:

# 65 million in the People's Republic of China
# 20 million in the Soviet Union[3]
# 2 million in Cambodia
# 2 million in North Korea
# 1.7 million in Africa
# 1.5 million in Afghanistan
# 1 million in the Communist states of Eastern Europe
# 1 million in Vietnam[4]
# 150,000 in Latin America

DUmmies, take a look at the stories recorded by so many people regarding their experiences under communism.  Read about the people imprisoned and/or killed for practicing their religion in Russia under communist rule, talk to a Vietnamese immigrant who lived through the rise of communism in Vietnam, look at the recent story of a woman being executed for distributing bibles in N. Korea. 

DUmmies, if you ever bothered to actually look at what Communism has done in the countries where it has been tried, maybe you would wake up to the fact that it doesn't work. 

[Tantal]

Everty major genocide in the 20th Century has been predicated upon two things:

1. National Socialism
2. Gun Control

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why decent, civilized, and educated people are skeptical of both.

[LC EFA]

LLStarks  (147 posts)      Sat Jul-25-09 04:38 PM
Original message
Why do liberals adore  communism, Marxism, and socialism yet lack an understanding of any?
 I just don't understand the modern day pseudo-Stalinist.

Fixed.

[djones520]

Everty major genocide in the 20th Century has been predicated upon two things:

1. National Socialism
2. Gun Control

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why decent, civilized, and educated people are skeptical of both.

Rwanda, Balkans, Armenia?  I don't think any of those fit the two things you listed there bud.

[NHSparky]

Rwanda, Balkans, Armenia?  I don't think any of those fit the two things you listed there bud.

Actually, in a way, even those can, if you go along ethnic/tribal lines.

That being said, DUmmy forgot to quote Ronaldus Maximus--"How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin."

[The Village Idiot]

did anyone see that by-election result in the safe Labour district? A 27-year old girl won it for the Tories by a huge margin with Labour and the LDP battling for second place. Chloe Smith becomes youngest MP. The Conservative Party can make her a poster kid for the party if she is as bright as she seems. Maybe attract some younger voters that way.

[AprilRazz]

LLStarks  (147 posts)      Sat Jul-25-09 04:38 PM
Original message
Why do conservatives mock communism, marxism, and socialism yet lack an understanding of any?
 I just don't understand the modern day pseudo-McCarthyism.
 

Because we actually listen to people that have lived under those systems that have fled here.

I had the pleasure of serving with a gentleman who fled Cuba on a raft several years ago. He is still serving in the US Navy and has done a few tours in Iraq to date. In my many conversations with him he said it boggled his mind how people here have the mistaken idea that Cuba is such a great place to live. He laughed at people like Carlos Santana who was pimping his Che shirt. Santana would have been killed by Che if he lived in Cuba at that time.

Also Yale and George Washington University professor Vladimir Petrov lived in the former USSR and spent time in the gulags for a supposed crime against the government. According to his son and the all to brief conversations I had with that gentleman he could not understand the infatuation either.

Both gentlemen were conservatives as are many who came here from communist and socialist countries.
But the primitives can't seem to wrap their heads around that.




On a small side note Professor Petrov wrote 2 wonderful books on his experiences in Siberia and on his escape from the Soviet Union in the early days of WWII titled "Soviet Gold" and "My Retreat From Russia". They are unfortunately out of print but if one can get their hands on a copy they are a fascinating read.

[jukin]

The worst genocides of the 20th Century

Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,000
Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39) 23,000,000 (the purges plus Ukraine's famine)
Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945) 12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians WWII)
Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44) 5,000,000 (civilians in WWII)
Ismail Enver (Turkey, 1915-20) 1,200,000 Armenians (1915) + 350,000 Greek Pontians and 480,000 Anatolian Greeks (1916-22) + 500,000 Assyrians (1915-20)
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000
Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94) 1.6 million (purges and concentration camps)
Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78) 1,500,000
Yakubu Gowon (Biafra, 1967-1970) 1,000,000
Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982) 900,000
Jean Kambanda (Rwanda, 1994) 800,000
Suharto (East Timor, West Papua, Communists, 1966-98) 800,000
Saddam Hussein (Iran 1980-1990 and Kurdistan 1987-88) 600,000
Tito (Yugoslavia, 1945-1987) 570,000
Fumimaro Konoe (Japan, 1937-39) 500,000? (Chinese civilians)
Jonas Savimbi (Angola, 1975-2002) 400,000
Mullah Omar - Taliban (Afghanistan, 1986-2001) 400,000
Idi Amin (Uganda, 1969-1979) 300,000
Yahya Khan (Pakistan, 1970-71) 300,000 (Bangladesh)
Benito Mussolini (Ethiopia, 1936; Yugoslavia, WWII) 300,000
Mobutu Sese Seko (Zaire, 1965-97) ?
Charles Taylor (Liberia, 1989-1996) 220,000
Foday Sankoh (Sierra Leone, 1991-2000) 200,000
Slobodan Milosevic (Yugoslavia, 1992-96) 180,000
Michel Micombero (Burundi, 1972) 150,000
Hassan Turabi (Sudan, 1989-1999) 100,000
Jean-Bedel Bokassa (Centrafrica, 1966-79) ?
Richard Nixon (Vietnam, 1969-1974) 70,000 (vietnamese civilians)
Efrain Rios Montt (Guatemala, 1982-83) 70,000
Papa Doc Duvalier (Haiti, 1957-71) 60,000
Hissene Habre (Chad, 1982-1990) 40,000
Chiang Kai-shek (Taiwan, 1947) 30,000 (popular uprising)
Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 (dissidents executed)
Francisco Franco (Spain) 30,000 (dissidents executed after the civil war)
Fidel Castro (Cuba, 1959-1999) 30,000
Lyndon Johnson (Vietnam, 1963-1968) 30,000
Hafez Al-Assad (Syria, 1980-2000) 25,000
Khomeini (Iran, 1979-89) 20,000
Robert Mugabe (Zimbabwe, 1982-87, Ndebele minority) 20,000
Rafael Videla (Argentina, 1976-83) 13,000
Guy Mollet (France, 1956-1957) 10,000 (war in Algeria)
Paul Koroma (Sierra Leone, 1997) 6,000
Osama Bin Laden (worldwide, 1993-2001) 3,500
Augusto Pinochet (Chile, 1973) 3,000
Al Zarqawi (Iraq, 2004-06) 2,000

(Note: the crimes committed by right-wing dictators have always been easier to track down than the crimes against humanity committed by communist leaders, so the figures for communist leaders like Stalin and Mao increase almost yearly as new secret documents become available. To this day, the Chinese government has not yet disclosed how many people were executed by Mao's red guards during the Cultural Revolution and how many people were killed in Tibet during the Chinese invasion of 1950. We also don't know how many dissidents have been killed by order of Kim Il Sung in North Korea, although presumably many thousands). Main sources:
* Charny (1988) Genocide: A Critical Bibliographic Review
* Stephane Courtois: Black Book on Communism (1995)


This does not include the misery of those that were not killed.  Don't worry useful idiots will keep looking for that one right person that can make communism/socialism work.

[Tantal]

Rwanda, Balkans, Armenia?  I don't think any of those fit the two things you listed there bud.

I said major genocides. Those you listed are primarily religious/ethnic squabbles whose death tolls pale in comparison to Germany, the USSR, China, Vietnam, Cambodia, etc.

[Chris_]

Brother...there's a stunning display of "Teh Stupid" on that thread.

They all blindly ignore the body counts of history...

[Ptarmigan]

I think the Soviet Union killed more than China, up to 100 million. Communist dictatorships often end in bloodshed and even war. Also, there are many Communist terrorists and cultists like SLA, Tamil Tigers, PLO, and People's Temple. Funny thing is that the left gets so riled up about August Pinochet.

[BlueStateSaint]

I think the Soviet Union killed more than China, up to 100 million. Communist dictatorships often end in bloodshed and even war.

I seem to remember a thread in Politics, IIRC, not too long ago whose title was something to the effect of, "Why do socialist regimes always end up being violently overthrown?"

That should tell the primitive in the OP all they need to know.

[Karin]

This guy has an avatar of John Lennon:

timeforpeace (1000+ posts)      Sat Jul-25-09 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
18. They just need to give communism, marxism and socialism a chance.
 Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 07:22 PM by timeforpeace
Someone, somewhere, sometime is going to successfully implement those -isms and then they'll see.

The naive stupidity and willful ignorance of history burns.