Unknown DUmmy Discusses Conservative Reasoning - Includes Office Bouncy

[GOBUCKS]

Anonymous, unknown DUmmy rudynumbers makes his case for feeeelings over quantitative reasoning:

rudy23  (1000+ posts)       Thu Jul-23-09 04:23 PM
Original message
Just noticed a conservative trait---mistaking qualitative data for "feelings"

Twice this week in my office, an incident with a conservative clearly illustrated something I'd been noticing and trying to articulate for years.

What I've noticed is that conservative-minded people will often confuse a debate between quantitative and qualitative data with the debate over thinking vs. feeling.

In one situation, my boss said since he was a "data minded" person, he couldn't take action against a slothful coworker unless there were some numbers showing her to be ineffective (even though anyone with two eyes can see her slacking off, being rude, blaming others, etc.)

I asked him, "What color is my shirt? (brown) Is that a fact or a feeling? (fact) Well, there were no numbers involved. How could that be a fact by your definition?"

I've noticed that Repukes love to write off qualitative data as "feeling" or "opinion" anytime it benefits them to take those abstractions like "human empathy" off the table. If they can reduce everything to cold numbers, they take the sin out of selfishness.

I think most do this unknowingly (or instinctively they just know they're framing things in a way that helps them), but I think some have mastered the art of this, and are using it to game the political debate. They do it to move the debate away from human empathy, or anything observed with the intuitive part of the brain. They can mock, and emasculate anyone who brings anything besides numbers into the debate, if it benefits them.
 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6132509
Anyone with low post count, and obvious experience with the hassles managers must live with, is a Lousy Freeper Troll:

Carl Skan (64 posts)      Thu Jul-23-09 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Flawed comparison.
Speaking from experience, your boss said that because he knows he has to cover his ass against a wrongful termination lawsuit. Asking a judge what color his shirt is wouldn't do him much good. It doesn't matter what he "knows" is a fact if it can't be proven in court.

Unfortunately, that sort of turns your entire post on its head.

Unknown DUmmy rudynumbers has no idea what he's talking about:

rudy23  (1000+ posts)       Thu Jul-23-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. In our state, employers don't need a reason to fire someone. 
That factor wasn't relevant to my discussion with him, nor this analogy. 

Unknown DUmmy rudynumbers confirms his DUmmyness. No DUmmy is ever in a position that involves hiring or firing decisions, so the factors involved are a foreign concept.

Carl Skan (64 posts)      Thu Jul-23-09 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I live in Texas
Which is a right to work state as well. You don't fire somebody without being able to document the reason you fired them ESPECIALLY women or minorities.

If you don't realize how what I said is relevant to the situation considering the fact that your boss gave the boiler plate CYA response (been there, done that, numerous times), you haven't been in management before.

LFT Carl Skan is lucky he's talking to an anonymous, unknown DUmmy of no value to the DUmp. A response like this to a DUmmy of prominence would earn an immediate tombstone.

Another anonymous, unknown DUmmy:

Echo In Light  (1000+ posts)      Thu Jul-23-09 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. Precisely why rightists use projection: accuse the Left of "relying on emotion instead of fact."
 What you're alluding to actually represents a monumental stumbling block for people of all walks of life when they're confronted w/data they find unfavorable i.e. doesn't fit neatly into pre-conceptualized beliefs of Self, society, country, etc that stem from external sources w/various agenda, yet have shaped the mind's perceptions for many yrs so that even a belief that would be blatantly false to someone examining it objectively from without can appear quite logical and reasonable to those who've long accepted it as "reality." 

If anyone can figure out what that means, please advise. It sort of sounds like our own Vestanumbers is posting at the DUmp.

[thundley4]

 :clueless:  I read through what you brought over, and I have no idea what the OP was trying to say. 

[JohnnyReb]

:clueless:  I read through what you brought over, and I have no idea what the OP was trying to say. 

Short version......."...dazzle them with BS."

[PatriotGame]

rudy23  (1000+ posts)       Thu Jul-23-09 04:23 PM
Original message

I asked him, "What color is my shirt? (brown) Is that a fact or a feeling? (fact) Well, there were no numbers involved. How could that be a fact by your definition?"

Actually S.F.B. (Shit For Brains), the question's answer does have a numerical value, a binary value. Is your shirtbrown? That questions only really has two answers; yes or no which is stated in the binary format as a 1 or zero.
If not for the binary (well and hexadecimal) numbering systems, you would not have your little `puter to announce to the world that you are a brown shirt 0bama-bot.

[BlueStateSaint]

:clueless:  I read through what you brought over, and I have no idea what the OP was trying to say. 

Add me to the list, after JR.  However, I'm glad that GB brought it over, just so we could see it.

[Celtic Rose]

The issue is that in this case, if the co-worker really is so ineffective, it shouldn’t be terribly difficult to find the quantitative data.  If she is rude to co-workers on such a wide scale then I’m sure that either her supervisor or HR have received complaints.  If she is lazy, then her supervisor should be able to look at her productivity levels and decide if they are on par with other employees.  Why is the DUmmy so concerned with getting her fired in the first place?  If she is really so bad, start reporting every major incident to a supervisor, and if they are valid issues, then there would be a record in place to get rid of her. 

Firing somebody because they appear to be slothful, without the evidence of poor work performance would be stupid, and could set the company up for a lawsuit if the employee wanted to pursue it.  Maybe it looks like she doesn’t do as much work because she is faster at her job, so it doesn’t take her as long.

[USA4ME]

It doesn't matter what he said.  What matters is that the rudy23 primitive got it off his chest and now he "feels" better.

.

[delilahmused]

What the **** does the color of his shirt have to do with anything? If I was his boss I would've laughed in his face, what a dork! And, by the way, if we're so interested in quantitative over quality why is it that we want grandma to have the pacemaker, or cancer treatment, or whatever because she's got more spunk and sparkle than people half her age and your side wants to send her home with a bottle of blue pills and wait for her to die just because she's reached some arbitrary soylent green cutoff date arbitrarily decided by an impersonal government.

Cindie

[vesta111]

Anonymous, unknown DUmmy rudynumbers makes his case for feeeelings over quantitative reasoning:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6132509
Anyone with low post count, and obvious experience with the hassles managers must live with, is a Lousy Freeper Troll:

Unknown DUmmy rudynumbers has no idea what he's talking about:
Unknown DUmmy rudynumbers confirms his DUmmyness. No DUmmy is ever in a position that involves hiring or firing decisions, so the factors involved are a foreign concept.
 
LFT Carl Skan is lucky he's talking to an anonymous, unknown DUmmy of no value to the DUmp. A response like this to a DUmmy of prominence would earn an immediate tombstone.

Another anonymous, unknown DUmmy:
If anyone can figure out what that means, please advise. It sort of sounds like our own Vestanumbers is posting at the DUmp.

Obama has not peed me off enough to post there YET.

If I should feel inclined to drive them nuts, I think this post would make a good start.

[Is my shirt brown?] is not a good analogy-----

I am one of the very few females that has a problem with color in some shades. That shirt can be brown, khaki, tan, light refraction and undertones come into play.

The point----no two people see, hear, taste or feel things the same way.

The only thing I can think of that is absolute to all people is Mathematics, and that can be tinkered with by the big heads.  People have been cooking the books since the early days and the rise of the TAX MAN.

I believe it was -Cindy?- that mentioned that perhaps the woman is so good at her job that she could complete a project in far less time then other workers.

That joker that is complaining is not too wise in the ways of running a company.

[jukin]

That is completely wrong in my world.  When debating a liberal, they always use "don't you feel" and I give them facts.  Then they usually say "anyone can make that up" or walk away mad.

Someone is working on their projectionist union card.

[Chump]

This about sums it up.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX161ulHrSA[/youtube]