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Offline ReardenSteel

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What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« on: July 16, 2009, 04:52:48 PM »
(if anything...)  :-)

LINK--- http://cfn.scout.com/2/874890.html

Pete Fiutak, CFN
Q. What is wrong with the Big 10?
Quote
Is the Big Ten as good as the SEC? No. No one is. But the conference, outside of Ohio State, has had its moments against the big bad boy on the block with Michigan and Penn State winning New Year's Day games over the SEC a few years ago and Iowa beating up South Carolina last year. Wisconsin has always played the SEC tough and Michigan State wasn't horrible in last year's Capital One Bowl loss to a superior Georgia team.

The problem is that the league hasn't come through on the biggest stages, with issue one being the constant waterboarding provided by a USC program that, when fully focused, is the best in America and would beat 110 other teams in the Rose Bowl by three touchdowns, would beat six of the top teams by double digits, and would be in a battle to the final gun against the other three, whichever they might be, and would probably win two of those games. You can't dog an entire conference because it has problems with USC.


snip...

Quote
I've used this fun stat before, and I'm going to throw it out there again because it's so interesting when it comes to these debates. Look who Ohio State has lost to over the last four years.

- 2008: USC (Rose Bowl champion), Penn State (Big Ten champion, Rose Bowl bound), Texas (arguably the best team in America, lost in the Fiesta Bowl).
- 2007: Illinois (Rose Bowl bound), LSU (the national championship).
- 2006: Florida (the national championship).
- 2005: Texas (the eventual national champion), Penn State (Big Ten champion, Orange Bowl champion).

The Buckeyes have lost eight games in four years, all to BCS teams including three national champions. This is what I'm talking about in my ongoing fight with USC fans about why they should be angrier that their Trojans don't play fully focused for a full season. It would be one thing if USC were to slip up against a big-time, BCS-bound team, but you don't see Ohio State losing to Oregon State or Stanford. (Or to Kentucky and Arkansas, like LSU did two years ago on its way to a national title, or even to Ole Miss at home.) But I digress.

Interesting stuff but the Big 10 does not always play a good out of conf. schedule. (With the exception of Ohio State who I'm happy to see play USC again this season)

Matthew Zemek, CFN
Q: What is wrong with the Big Ten?

Quote
A: Simply, the league’s stubborn refusal to play games after Thanksgiving. Aside from robbing the Big Ten of considerable exposure on weekends when the SEC and Big 12 play their title games (and the Pac-10, even with its horrible TV contracts, still pulls in an extra measure of visibility as well), the lack of early-December football creates extremely long layoffs between the end of the regular season and the playing of a (BCS) bowl game. What’s the impact of this difference between the Big Ten and the (out-of-conference) teams it plays in early January?

This has always bugged the heck out of me but I don't know if it's a good reason for poor play or just a lame excuse.

Jon Miller, Publisher, HawkeyeNation.com
Q: What is wrong with the Big Ten?

Quote
A: Not a thing. In 8 of the 11 years the BCS has been in existence, the Big Ten has sent multiple teams to its games. That’s more BCS appearances than any other league. Now, you can debate the worthiness of the BCS all you want, but it’s here to stay for the foreseeable future, and BCS bowl game committees, which also means chambers of commerce boards in the cities those games are played in, love the Big Ten schools…they travel better than any other conference, collectively. Ohio State has rocked the Phoenix area for so many years…Iowa sent nearly 50,000 fans to the Orange Bowl, and never less than 20,000 to its three Outback Bowl appearances since January of 2004. Penn State and Michigan boast two of the largest alumni bases in this country. Wisconsin will send 40,000+ when it plays in a BCS bowl game, Illinois close to that when it played USC in the Rose Bowl a few years ago.

Now, if you are talking about the Big Ten’s record in bowl games, I sure would love to see teams from other leagues play road games during the bowl season like the Big Ten has done for the most part. USC in the Rose Bowl? Same city. Most Rose Bowl games are going to favor the Pac 10 logistically, just like most Capital One and Outback Bowls are going to give the SEC the home field advantage. Florida had more than a week’s head start on ticket sales for the 2006 Outback Bowl against Iowa, and they sold over 40,000 tickets in that amount of time before Iowa was named as their opponent.

Hmmm. That is just tradition and a poor excuse IMHO. Obviously the Big 10 travels better than any other conf. (ahh duh)

Who would not want to get out of Ohio, Iowa, Mich., etc in January? Plus these are big big schools with big time alumni.


Well I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Big 10 is not the best, but it's up there and it's tradition and fans are some of the best around. Go tOSU and bring on the 2009 season. It may be 95 degrees today but I'm really really ready for some (college) football!!
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2009, 05:09:02 PM »
RS, you're a friend and like college football like I do, so I'll state what I've said before.

The problem with the Big 10 (11) isn't their out of conference schedule, it's their conference schedule, something they can't do much about.  Outside Michigan (currently down), Ohio State, and Penn State, the other teams are marginal from year to year.  Wisconsin has been about as consistent of sorta fielding good teams as any of them.  Every 3 or 4 years a Mich. State, or an Illinois, or maybe every blue moon a Minnesota, Purdue, Iowa or NW have a pretty good year.  But year after year after year consistent?  There's only 3 who have traditionally done that.

My solution remains, one with which you have also agreed:  You need a 12th team and a championship game.  ND would be the dream addition.  But at some point, they need to bite the bullet and get a Pitt or a WVU or a Syracuse or someone.  You gotta get something that's going to inject some life into that conference, because no one's gonna watch the Indiana-NW game, not if something exciting like Duquesne vs. Howard is on.

.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 05:10:36 PM by USA4ME »
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Offline ReardenSteel

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2009, 05:27:31 PM »
Quote from: USA4ME on July 16, 2009, 05:09:02 PM
RS, you're a friend and like college football like I do, so I'll state what I've said before.

The problem with the Big 10 (11) isn't their out of conference schedule, it's their conference schedule, something they can't do much about.  Outside Michigan (currently down), Ohio State, and Penn State, the other teams are marginal from year to year.  Wisconsin has been about as consistent of sorta fielding good teams as any of them.  Every 3 or 4 years a Mich. State, or an Illinois, or maybe every blue moon a Minnesota, Purdue, Iowa or NW have a pretty good year.  But year after year after year consistent?  There's only 3 who have traditionally done that.

My solution remains, one with which you have also agreed:  You need a 12th team and a championship game.  ND would be the dream addition.  But at some point, they need to bite the bullet and get a Pitt or a WVU or a Syracuse or someone.  You gotta get something that's going to inject some life into that conference, because no one's gonna watch the Indiana-NW game, not if something exciting like Duquesne vs. Howard is on.

.
Whoa, dude now that's, that's... well that's about right. I will say that while many a Conf. is an either/or conf., the Big 10 is both a football and a basketball Conf.

However, we are talking football and you sir are right as rain.

Despite some fights with many a cable outlet, the Big 10 channel is making money and may be the only thing possible to lure ND away from a juicy NBC contract. (given the Fighting Irish's pathetic recent records too) That said I do expect ND to have a good year in 2009.

The SEC is still top bananna and will be for some time, but I do think that second place is up for grabs every year for the forseeable future. (I like tOSU's chances vs USC this year!!! can't wait for kickoff) 
 :-)


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Offline USA4ME

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2009, 05:34:09 PM »
Quote from: ReardenSteel on July 16, 2009, 05:27:31 PM
... the Big 10 channel is making money ...

I was wondering.  I watched it some last year, but mainly because I knew I was going to go to the Illinois-Penn State game and was watching some of that show featuring the Illini team.

The Big 10 should look at the model of the Big 12.  When they merged and formed, there were only 4 well known teams; Texas, Texas A&M, Nebraska, and Oklahoma.  Now I routinely find myself watching Texas Tech, OK State, Missouri, Colorado, & Kansas.  If they can do it, so can the Big 10.

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Offline ReardenSteel

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2009, 07:27:28 PM »
I hope so.

Never tought I would say this but it will be nice if Michigan can make something of themselves again and soon. I think Illinois will be good and Penn has the easiest (most pathetic) schedule I've seen in a while. Purdue still has the coaches in place (i think) that really made Drew Brees and Kyle Orton great college QB's and Painter ain't bad. Time will tell.

Big 12 was better than the Big 10 last year and might be again. Still, if Texas stumbles, I would not mind seeing an OSU/Texas rematch in a "lessor" BCS game next season.

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Offline USA4ME

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2009, 10:42:57 AM »
Thought about his last night and if the Big 10 can't get ND, then the team they should go for IMO would be Rutgers.  Why?  The NYC TV market is the biggest in the country, it would immediately secure the Big 10 as the only major football conference with a presence in the greater NYC area, and it wouldn't step on the recruiting toes of any current Big 10 member schools.

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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2009, 05:39:22 PM »
As wild as I think the idea is, USA4ME has a pretty good idea.  The problem is, if either Rutgers or ND goes into the Big 10 in football, the B10 would want them in basketball, too.  Right now, the two toughest conferences in D-1 b-ball are the ACC and the Big East.  The BE isn't going to let either school go without a major fight, and they stand about a 50% chance of winning that fight.

You can't look at this without putting basketball into the mix from the get-go.

And as for games that take place after Thanksgiving, Hell--even the Army-Navy game takes place the first weekend of December (which sees me read about it, as that's the last weekend of New York's Northern Zone deer season, and the camp I belong to gets one the last weekend almost every year.  I like venison, which means I don't see the game).  So, the B10 does suck pond water in that regard.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2009, 03:03:10 PM »
I love how these other conferences "try" to dog on the SEC about how well they play against the SEC and mention schools like Arkansas, South Carolina, etc. The problem with their little "point" is that they NEVER bring up the best of the best in the conference. USC is that good? Fine, play the best in the SEC. Last year they bitched about UF being in the NC because UF lost to Ole Miss. Their solution? They wanted to play Oklahoma. IIRC, they didn't mention a thing about playing Florida. Fact is, ON the major stage, we've won 5 out of 11 championships since it's founding. We one the first (UT), and both UF and LSU have 2 a piece.


Oh, and Ole Miss will have one after this years season.   :stirpot:
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Offline Rebel

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2009, 03:04:39 PM »
Also, if Auburn hadn't been f'ed you'd have seen a much better national championship in '04. OU should have never been there to get killed like they did.
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Offline ReardenSteel

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2009, 04:41:38 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on July 20, 2009, 03:03:10 PM
I love how these other conferences "try" to dog on the SEC about how well they play against the SEC and mention schools like Arkansas, South Carolina, etc. The problem with their little "point" is that they NEVER bring up the best of the best in the conference. USC is that good? Fine, play the best in the SEC. Last year they bitched about UF being in the NC because UF lost to Ole Miss. Their solution? They wanted to play Oklahoma. IIRC, they didn't mention a thing about playing Florida. Fact is, ON the major stage, we've won 5 out of 11 championships since it's founding. We one the first (UT), and both UF and LSU have 2 a piece.


Oh, and Ole Miss will have one after this years season.   :stirpot:

I'd be flattered (and shocked) if people from every other conference used "my" Big 10 as the measuring stick of football greatness. Who is trying or "try"ing to "dog on the SEC" by the way? No one.

Feel free to throw out any thoughts on improving the Big 10 or college football in general. You have a great football brain even if you are a sensitive bastard.  :tongue:
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Offline Rebel

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2009, 04:56:57 PM »
The Big 10 needs to add another team and have a championship.
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2009, 06:16:20 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on July 20, 2009, 03:04:39 PM
Also, if Auburn hadn't been f'ed you'd have seen a much better national championship in '04. OU should have never been there to get killed like they did.

I'm as big a fan as anyone of the SEC, but even I don't think AU could have beat USC that year.  They barely beat VT in the Sugar.  USC stomped OU into the ground.  But a better game,...... maybe.  They were both 12-0 so hard to say.

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« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 06:18:37 PM by USA4ME »
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Offline Rebel

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2009, 06:38:18 PM »
Quote from: USA4ME on July 20, 2009, 06:16:20 PM
I'm as big a fan as anyone of the SEC, but even I don't think AU could have beat USC that year.  They barely beat VT in the Sugar.  USC stomped OU into the ground.  But a better game,...... maybe.  They were both 12-0 so hard to say.

.

You can't compare OU with Auburn. Two different style defenses (I think we saw that this past bowl season...and the Big 12 hasn't changed). Auburn, IN the Orange Bowl, could have had a damn good chance to beat USC.
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2009, 07:03:45 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on July 20, 2009, 06:38:18 PM
You can't compare OU with Auburn. Two different style defenses (I think we saw that this past bowl season...and the Big 12 hasn't changed). Auburn, IN the Orange Bowl, could have had a damn good chance to beat USC.

OU's been noted for having great defenses, so I can't agree, especially that year.  As for Tuberville, he should have never left Ole Miss, so I'm glad he didn't get to play in the NC.  Serves him right.

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Offline Rebel

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2009, 07:15:49 PM »
Quote from: USA4ME on July 20, 2009, 07:03:45 PM
OU's been noted for having great defenses, so I can't agree, especially that year.  As for Tuberville, he should have never left Ole Miss, so I'm glad he didn't get to play in the NC.  Serves him right.

.

I'm glad he left. **** him. As for OU's defense, they pale in comparison to the best in the SEC. All they do is play each other and play weak OOC schedules. Same could probably be said about the SEC, but our Bowl Seasons prove us the anomaly. How many bowls did we win this year that we weren't supposed to? LSU was supposed to get killed by GT. Vandy was supposed to get trounced by BC. Ole Miss against the 1-loss, 7th ranked TT? We were supposed to be dominated, yet it turned into a game that "should" have been 54-34, had Nutt not downed it on their two yard line with about 2 minutes left.
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2009, 07:32:33 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on July 20, 2009, 07:15:49 PM
I'm glad he left. **** him. As for OU's defense, they pale in comparison to the best in the SEC. All they do is play each other and play weak OOC schedules. Same could probably be said about the SEC, but our Bowl Seasons prove us the anomaly. How many bowls did we win this year that we weren't supposed to? LSU was supposed to get killed by GT. Vandy was supposed to get trounced by BC. Ole Miss against the 1-loss, 7th ranked TT? We were supposed to be dominated, yet it turned into a game that "should" have been 54-34, had Nutt not downed it on their two yard line with about 2 minutes left.

I agree w/ last year.  We're talking a few years back.  OU had a good defense that year, comparible with any in the SEC.  A better game probably would have been OU vs. AU, but USC would have beat up on both of them.  They really had it together that year.

Granted, I will say the Big 12 has had teams go to the NC when they didn't deserve to have them there.  In 2002, Nebraska didn't even win their conference.  In 2004, same with OU.  There's where the problem lies with me.  But in 2004, when you've got 3 undefeated teams who all (naturally) won their conference, then one's gonna feel slighted.  OU got the nod because they stated #2 at the beginning of the year and kept it.

Also, I can't stand AU.  I'm glad Bama's back if for no other reason that to beat up on AU.  :-)

.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2009, 09:04:38 PM »
Sorry, I'm gonna have to disagree with my misguided Mississippi brethren (not because we disagree, but because you are a hounds fan). I don't think USC would have had as much of an easy time with AU as they did OU. I seriously think Auburn could have beat them.

Oh, and I cannot STAND All-Barn. Can't f'n stand those damn Pachyderms either. Matter of fact, I can't stand any SEC team unless it's bowl season or they're playing OOC. Then I love them all.
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Offline Odin's Hand

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2009, 08:55:23 AM »
If it weren't for a missed tackle on Quan Cosby in the Fiesta Bowl, this article would be about what's right with the Big Ten.
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Offline Odin's Hand

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2009, 09:02:06 AM »
Quote from: USA4ME on July 20, 2009, 07:03:45 PM
OU's been noted for having great defenses, so I can't agree, especially that year.  As for Tuberville, he should have never left Ole Miss, so I'm glad he didn't get to play in the NC.  Serves him right.

.

True, that defense was better than last years' due to many injuries along the front 7. Reynolds tore his ACL against Texas, Granger had a herniated disk since Washington and a ligament tear in his foot, Box had a ACL strain, English had a torn bicep issue that kept him out for 10 weeks. OU's defense was thin in the depth chart all season and injuries took their toll against Florida. They had to rely on their offense to outscore Florida, mostly, and those two goal-line stands against us, especially the one where Kevin Wilson called the same ****in' play 4 times in a row, ended up deciding it.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2009, 02:26:25 PM »
Now for the real answer. What's wrong with the Big Televen? It's full of yankees.  :fuelfire:
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Offline ReardenSteel

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2009, 08:27:36 PM »
Quote from: Odin's Hand on July 21, 2009, 08:55:23 AM
If it weren't for a missed tackle on Quan Cosby in the Fiesta Bowl, this article would be about what's right with the Big Ten.

Ouch. lol

I just watched that game again on hulu. Same sad ending.  :p

As to your point, the Big 10 (11/"Very Big 10") need more than the Bucks doing well, we got that and then some. It's time for Penn, Ill, MSU, or someone/anyone else to step up. Even, dare I say it, Michigan.
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"When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion - when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you - when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice - you may know that your society is doomed."

- Ayn Rand
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1826

Offline Rebel

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2009, 09:11:40 PM »
Yeah, that's not a very good indicator for the Big-10 either, barely losing to UT. Out of the big 3 in the Big 12, all lost but Texas, who barely won. Ole Miss beat the living shit out of TT, a game that COULD have been 54-34 had Nutt not downed the ball on the 2 yard line with about 2 minutes to go, and the Gators beat the Soonerorlaters by, what, by 10?
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Offline ReardenSteel

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2009, 09:25:26 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on August 13, 2009, 09:11:40 PM
Yeah, that's not a very good indicator for the Big-10 either, barely losing to UT. Out of the big 3 in the Big 12, all lost but Texas, who barely won. Ole Miss beat the living shit out of TT, a game that COULD have been 54-34 had Nutt not downed the ball on the 2 yard line with about 2 minutes to go, and the Gators beat the Soonerorlaters by, what, by 10?

Let's just say if the Big East is breathing down your neck, your conf. has some work to do.

"We" Big 10ers will know where we stand real quick in 09 with USC comming to Columbus. If tOSU can't win at home maybe no one in the conf. is BCS bowl worthy. (no one else will play any team of note)

It's high time we extend the season past Thanksgiving and schedule some tougher hombre's. I don't know what else we can do.
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"When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion - when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you - when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice - you may know that your society is doomed."

- Ayn Rand
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1826

Offline Rebel

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2009, 11:34:37 PM »
Quote from: ReardenSteel on August 13, 2009, 09:25:26 PM
Let's just say if the Big East is breathing down your neck, your conf. has some work to do.

"We" Big 10ers will know where we stand real quick in 09 with USC comming to Columbus. If tOSU can't win at home maybe no one in the conf. is BCS bowl worthy. (no one else will play any team of note)

It's high time we extend the season past Thanksgiving and schedule some tougher hombre's. I don't know what else we can do.

Well, you could always add Noter Damn and have a championship. Then again, hasn't seemed to hurt USC. Well, then again, they are about the only ones in the PAC that actually makes it to the big bowls.
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Offline ReardenSteel

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Re: What is wrong with the Big Ten? (football)
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2009, 12:09:20 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on August 13, 2009, 11:34:37 PM
Well, you could always add Noter Damn and have a championship. Then again, hasn't seemed to hurt USC. Well, then again, they are about the only ones in the PAC that actually makes it to the big bowls.

ND is happy to be an Indy and likely will be for a long long time. Too bad but it would be hard for me to imagine a season that did not end with OSU v Michigan anyway.

All I'm asking is for another two or three Big 10 guys to do some home/away matchups with some perennial top 25 teams. (like OSU did with Texas and USC... I think Tennessee and Miami are next on the OSU home/away list and ideally both those teams will be much improved)
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"When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion - when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you - when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice - you may know that your society is doomed."

- Ayn Rand
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1826
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