Skins speaks from the walnut-walled executive offices of Skins's island

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6066066

My fellow alum Skins, my man:

Skinner ADMIN  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jul-14-09 02:37 PM
Original message
 
We are going to keep the unrecommend feature. 

By now, I think most of you have probably heard that we upgraded the DU Recommend function to allow people to "Unrecommend" as well. For those of you who missed it, here is my thread from last week announcing the change.

The DU admins have been monitoring the new feature, and we are pleased to see that it is working more-or-less how we intended it to work. In fact, I think it is working better than I expected. Our motivation for giving you the ability to unrecommend was to improve the overall quality of the threads that make it to the DU Greatest Page, while giving a boost to topics that have broad appeal to our members, and it seems to be doing just that. We believe the unrecommend function has been a success, and it is a net positive for our community.

Obviously, there are many people who are not happy about this change, and have said so. After trying the new system for five days, we believe that the most dire predictions have not come to pass. However, we do believe some of your concerns are legitimate. We have been closely monitoring the system to see how it is being used and abused, and will continue to do so.

So far, it is our impression that the vast majority of DUers are trying to use the system in a fair and responsible manner. A small number of people have used it in a manner we would consider irresponsible, and an even smaller number have been grossly abusive in their use of the system. We have the ability to bar members from using the system if they abuse it, and we have taken advantage of that ability in a few extreme cases. But we believe it is very difficult for the small number of abusive users to have much impact because there are so many people using it in a responsible manner.

For the most part, the ratings seem fair. Obviously, there are exceptions -- but I don't think it makes sense to throw out the entire system because a few deserving threads did not make it to the greatest page, or because a few undeserving threads did. Overall, I think that happens a lot less under our new system compared to the system we had before.

We are going to continue to monitor the system to see how it is working, and how it is not. We are committed to making any changes that we deem necessary and appropriate so that the system is relatively fair and free from abuse.

One change that we are considering -- which has been suggested by many of you -- is to get rid of the "<0" designation so threads will never display a rating lower than 0. We believe this change would take away one incentive for people to abuse the system, and it would not affect our goal of improving the content of the Greatest Page.

Also, now that we have the system in place, there are a lot of cool things we can do with it. Many of you have suggested that we could crunch the recs and unrecs in new ways in order to create lists of highly controversial threads, or popular threads, or threads with the most positive recommendations, or whatever. We think it would be cool to do this. If we can provide you with more different ways to experience DU, that's a good thing.

Thank you for your patience and understanding as we improve DU. And thank you for all of your feedback.

Skinner, EarlG, and Elad
DU Administrators

Alas, the primitives don't seem to like it.

inna (892 posts)        Tue Jul-14-09 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
 
234. unthank you for the new feature....

louis c  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jul-14-09 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
 
236. I liked it before the change

Who needs the negativity?

scentopine  (177 posts)      Wed Jul-15-09 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
 
288. Obama is polarizing democrats with his resistance to change

This isn't an unrec feature it is a "report an anti-Obama post" feature. I work 12-14 hours a day. Still, I had no problem filtering through the greatest page.

So, why not make it official and create an "anti-Obama" button where Obama enforcers can look for anything critical of Obama and flag the poster with a scarlet letter next to his name every time he/she posts? Patent it and sell it to the free republic. They will love it.

I guess server space is so expensive we can't afford to waste valuable space with minority opinions. Mass censorship in any of its efficient mechanical embodiments is simply the wrong way.

Moochy (1000+ posts)        Tue Jul-14-09 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
 
244. me too

And I don't think that the "clarity" explanation of eliminating <0 count is exactly "accurate".

EFerrari  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jul-14-09 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #162
 
172. I don't know. I'm not very much into trying to control things

I have no control over and probably shouldn't be driving in the first place.

I trust Skinner.

Coventina (1000+ posts)        Tue Jul-14-09 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
 
25. Hi Skinner, I'm primarily an LBN poster/user and one thing that continues to bother me is the "un-recing" of LBN threads.

EarlG acknowledged the issue, but I still think it reflects poorly on DU that factual stories about rescued miners, kids getting organ transplants, etc. can be rated <0 (as has happened).

I'm fine with people thinking they don't belong on the "Greatest Page". In fact, I don't post with the intent of getting on the "Greatest Page." But there's something bizarre (and morally wrong, IMHO) about DUers visibly voting down a story about the Khmer Rouge facing justice.

Political Heretic  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jul-14-09 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
 
36. Define "overall quality." That's the problem - you haven't and can't.

"Our motivation for giving you the ability to unrecommend was to improve the overall quality of the threads that make it to the DU Greatest Page"

Define "quality" for me.

Skinner ADMIN  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jul-14-09 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #36
 
44. Obviously it is a subjective judgment.   

Which is why I used fudge words like "it seems to be" and "we believe".

You tell him, Skins.  Sic him.

Political Heretic  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jul-14-09 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #44
 
49. Subjective. That doesn't mean you can't lay out a subjective definition for "quality" 

You can still define the term, as you use it, even if that definition is subjective.

So we'll agree no objective definition is possible. That doesn't rule out the ability for you to at least explain how you're using the term in this context.

I for one would like to hear what you define as "quality" in the context of your post, subjective or not.

PretzelWarrior  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jul-14-09 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #49
 
88. oohh....you go get him, tiger. 

I think you're too bored. Perhaps some time spent feeding the homeless at a local shelter can give you some renewed perspective?

Political Heretic  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jul-14-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #88
 
109. Not that its any of your ****ing business, by my grandmother is about to die.

Then, given the fact that my grandmother is in the last stage of cancer, and I've moved home to support my mother while her mom dies a very painful death I do happen to have some extra time during the day, though I can't exactly go volunteer right now since that sort of defeats the purpose of why I dropped everything to move out here (which was to be with my mother for support while she goes through this and help as needed with my grandmother).

It always amazes how how frequently a difference of opinion gets spun into personal judgments and assumptions about the personal life of someone, which you know nothing about, which has no relevance at all. It's cheap, childish and petty.

Finally, take a look at my profile... particularly the "I have been:" section. And get over your judgmental self.

Oh my.

Common Sense Party  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jul-14-09 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #36
 
48. Instead of "quality" how about "improve the overall smell"

There, that fixes it.

WeDidIt  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jul-14-09 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
 
41. I'd recommend this but recommend and unrecommend don't work for me right now.

shadowknows69  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jul-14-09 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
 
58. Unfortunate. I think you'll see a decline in original compositions here because of it.

PretzelWarrior  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jul-14-09 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #58
 
61. no. it should increase them. bring your best game to the table or you will get 0 for a recommend total.

madfloridian  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jul-14-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #61
 
73. So not true.   

Good writing and well-organized thought don't mean that much.

defendandprotect  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jul-14-09 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #58
 
72. I agree . . . but time will tell -- 

That problem is also evident in people bringing forth information on America's
many conspiracies which end up in the dungeon.

Hmmm.  One wonders what that's all about.

Liberal_in_LA  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jul-14-09 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
 
68. I don't like it

Mythsaje  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jul-14-09 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
 
84. It's been great at helping to point out DUs biggest assholes.

but otherwise I still think it's a repressive, chickenshit, stupid idea that allows people to hide points of view they don't like. Not from themselves, which would require the ignore feature only, but from everyone else. It promotes conformity and punishes independence of thought. But, hey, it's your site. Do what you want. Mob rule rules.

There's lots more, and much of it funny.

The primitives are taking this about as seriously as if they're discussing a real matter of importance.

[Chris_]

I'm a bit confused coach.......I must admit that I don't really have the stomach to actually READ DU, and rely on you guys to bring the essence over here.......this change, as I understand it, only affects what appears on the "Greatest Page", which in sort of like the opening page on this board (which I don't typically read)......why is this such a big deal with them?  Is it an ego trip?

doc

[GOBUCKS]

Apparently DUmmy Mythsaje still doesn't think it's going to help him peddle his silly DUngeons & dragons pamphlets.

Sorry, coach, I know you see him as a dirty little raggamuffin with great promise, who could be destined for great things if he'd only allow himself to be properly mentored. But he is actually a terminal ditz.

[jukin]

Skin is just forging the political pure in the asylum.

[franksolich]

I'm a bit confused coach.......I must admit that I don't really have the stomach to actually READ DU, and rely on you guys to bring the essence over here.......this change, as I understand it, only affects what appears on the "Greatest Page", which in sort of like the opening page on this board (which I don't typically read)......why is this such a big deal with them?  Is it an ego trip?

You understand the change perfectly, sir.

It's a big deal simply because it's a change.

The primitives, being reactionary, don't like change.

This change has upset a lot of bowels on Skins's island lately; there's been lots and lots and lots of primitive bonfires burning away about it.

As someone else--I think it was jendf here--said, it's like the inmates of a lunatic asylum getting all bent out of shape because the color of the Jello was changed from red to green.

Really, it is.

[franksolich]

Apparently DUmmy Mythsaje still doesn't think it's going to help him peddle his silly DUngeons & dragons pamphlets.

Sorry, coach, I know you see him as a dirty little raggamuffin with great promise, who could be destined for great things if he'd only allow himself to be properly mentored. But he is actually a terminal ditz.

Well, I'm beginning to see him simply as a dirty little ragamuffin now, and no more than that.

I tried, however.  I gave it all my best shot, to make something of the boy.

So now, alas, one must search further afield on Skins's island for talent.

[Chris_]

You understand the change perfectly, sir.

It's a big deal simply because it's a change.

The primitives, being reactionary, don't like change.

This change has upset a lot of bowels on Skins's island lately; there's been lots and lots and lots of primitive bonfires burning away about it.

As someone else--I think it was jendf here--said, it's like the inmates of a lunatic asylum getting all bent out of shape because the color of the Jello was changed from red to green.

Really, it is.

Got it.......I'm also observing a rather large number of "guests" viewing this thread......

doc

[The Village Idiot]

centopine  (177 posts)      Wed Jul-15-09 09:14 AM

Response to Reply #1
 
288. Obama is polarizing democrats with his resistance to change

This isn't an unrec feature it is a "report an anti-Obama post" feature. I work 12-14 hours a day. Still, I had no problem filtering through the greatest page.

So, why not make it official and create an "anti-Obama" button where Obama enforcers can look for anything critical of Obama and flag the poster with a scarlet letter next to his name every time he/she posts? Patent it and sell it to the free republic. They will love it.

I guess server space is so expensive we can't afford to waste valuable space with minority opinions. Mass censorship in any of its efficient mechanical embodiments is simply the wrong way.

How is that tolerance of dissent going?

[Chris_]

Ah LIBERALS, always seeking the lowest common denominator.

[franksolich]

Ah LIBERALS, always seeking the lowest common denominator.

And when they reach it, they frantically strive to go even lower.

[blitzkrieg_17]

It promotes conformity and punishes independence of thought.

The whole purpose of socialism, DUmbass.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Mythsaje  (1000+ posts)       
Tue Jul-14-09 03:51 PM
I still think it's a repressive, chickenshit, stupid idea

Just because people are unrecommending your threads.  Attention whore.

As I suggested before, every Rec and Un-Rec should be public.  You're the people who are championing "voter verified ballots", lets just make them all public.

[franksolich]

Got it.......I'm also observing a rather large number of "guests" viewing this thread......

You know what would be cool, really cool, is that if instead of writing his comments, my fellow alum had some sort of video set-up where he could address the primitives that way--some sort of television-like thing that would pop up on the computer screen of primitives every time Skins had a pronouncement to make.

[The Village Idiot]

The Island needs a security apparatus to keep the DUmbs in line, maybe a 2-way system that monitors the primitives through their webcams?

Mini-Big Brother

[Chris_]

You know what would be cool, really cool, is that if instead of writing his comments, my fellow alum had some sort of video set-up where he could address the primitives that way--some sort of television-like thing that would pop up on the computer screen of primitives every time Skins had a pronouncement to make.

I'm no computer wizard, but it certainly could be done using "flash player"........it would really mess with the folks using dial-up for access, but I surmise that most of the DUmmies have a broadband commection of some sort......since we, the taxpayers are likely paying for it.......

doc

[USA4ME]

Skinner ADMIN

... and we are pleased to see that it is working more-or-less how we intended it to work.

That had to be a kick in the stomach to the few primitives who like to pretend they don't worship Dear Leader.

.

[The Village Idiot]

just like stimulus is working how it was intended

[LC EFA]

This whole recommend / un-recommend saga has once again exposed the DU mindset perfectly. There isn't anything Skinner could have done to better expose the mentality of his flock.

"We like the ability to vote - provided you vote for what I like"

They get their Democracy and complain bitterly when they realize what it entails.

The best part is that they don't realize the irony of complaining about a democratic measure on a forum called "Democratic Underground"

It makes me think that Skinner might be some sort of ubermole.

[franksolich]

It makes me think that Skinner might be some sort of ubermole.

When thinking of Skins's island and the primitives, I always see my fellow alum as a three-piece-suited, eye-glassed, top-hatted, satchel under his arm, patent-leather soes, a Presbyterian missionary lost in the jungle, trying to hack his way out of the thick growth using his closed umbrella.

[Duke Nukum]

Mythsaje  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jul-14-09 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
 
84. It's been great at helping to point out DUs biggest assholes.

but otherwise I still think it's a repressive, chickenshit, stupid idea that allows people to hide points of view they don't like. Not from themselves, which would require the ignore feature only, but from everyone else. It promotes conformity and punishes independence of thought. But, hey, it's your site. Do what you want. Mob rule rules.

Pure democracy and democracy as practiced by the Democrat Party is mob rule and DUmmies are just part of the mob.  Skinner is at least being consistent with his ideology.