U.S. officer demands answer: Is Army 'corps of chattel slaves?'

[5412]

One way for officers to protest, when they feel so strongly about not wanting to serve under an POTUS whom is an IDIOT, is to resign their commission.

It happened in big numbers under clinton.

How many career NCOs whom had 20-years in submitted their retirement paperwork when clinton took office?

Hi,

My oldest son graduated second in his class at the Naval Academy, went to MIT and got a masters degree in nuclear engineering with straight "A"'s.  Every fitness report he received as an officer basically said he was a shoo in to become an Admiral.  He resigned his commission right after Clinton got elected, saying, "I will be damned if I want to spend the rest of my career decommissioning submarines."  There was no early out program for him, he simply refused to serve a commander in chief for which he had no respect.

This officer is not resigning, he is filing as a conscious objector, the same as many other Americans have done in the past.  it is his right to do so, and he knows it will be the end of his military career.

regards,
5412

[dutch508]

a year ago vesta would have been cheering this Major.

****ing retards.

[TheSarge]

a year ago vesta would have been cheering this Major.

******* retards.

Different President...different set of rules.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Hi,

I appreciate the point but do not feel the need for you to put me down.  Quite the contrary, an order to go to war from a person who is not qualified to give the order, and quite possibly a muslim WTF, over??? and all the other things outlined in his lawsuit would appear to have some merit  Not to any lawyer he isn't paying to listen to it, they don't.  Were it some insignificat order that might be something different, but to send a person into a war zone to me is what makes it legitimate.

5412

Whatever, I'm not really trying to be offensive, believe me, you'd know it if I was.  But you keep saying the same wrong stuff.

The idea that it's okay for a Soldier, let alone an officer, to pop up with "Hey, I'm not going to follow your orders until you prove to me you were really a citizen when you were commissioned, 'cause I'm not sure you were, and it's a requirement, y'know" to his CO after getting an order is not only incredibly stupid but totally unacceptable and would get the individual slapped in irons in a combat zone, and rightly so.  Shot on the spot would really be more appropriate, but we don't do that anymore.  THAT is the situation this Major is claiming, NOT the unlawful substance of an order.  Apparently you either do not want to acknowledge the difference between the unlawful substance of an order and the propriety of the authority issuing it, or just really don't understand the distinction, but they are worlds apart.  The propriety question really isn't open for subordinates to raise - once the President signs that CO's commission, he's acting with authority and not open to challenge on it from the ranks, and ditto for the Commander in Chief once the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court has sworn him in.

The conscientious objector aspect of the guy's claim is even dumber, those provisions exist to give an 'out' for people who have a deep-seated sincere and permanent shift of their moral compass on bearing arms against other men, it has NOTHING to do with wanting to call into question the bona fides of current political leaders.  He's saying in effect "Oh, I have deep-seated moral objection to using deadly force - unless somebody I agree with politically tells me to do it."  That's just ridiculous.

[Thor]

The conscientious objector aspect of the guy's claim is even dumber, those provisions exist to give an 'out' for people who have a deep-seated sincere and permanent shift of their moral compass on bearing arms against other men, it has NOTHING to do with wanting to call into question the bona fides of current political leaders.  He's saying in effect "Oh, I have deep-seated moral objection to using deadly force - unless somebody I agree with politically tells me to do it."  That's just ridiculous.

Now THAT I will agree with.

[AllosaursRus]

And Hell no, it would be an unbelievably stupid idea to allow a Soldier to challenge a company commander's order just because he thought the commander had cheated on tests in college and therefore ultimately lied his way to being commissioned, or he heard a rumor the commander had tried drugs in high school but lied about it on his security clearance application and wouldn't have been able to be commissioned if he told the truth, which is exactly where your "Shouldn't he be able to..." would end up in no time flat.

This is the money quote right here. If this is allowed to progress, it would open up a whole can of legalistic worms of which would be totally unacceptable in order to run any semblance of an efficient military.

[Rebel]

Except here she'll actually have to defend her left wing BS and not just have it taken at face value.

Wonder if she held the same beliefs about Ehren Watada?

[Rebel]

Quite the contrary, an order to go to war from a person who is not qualified to give the order, and quite possibly a muslim and all the other things outlined in his lawsuit would appear to have some merit.

Whether we like it or not, Professor Dickweed was sworn in by the Chief Justice of the Highest Court of the land. It is not the Major's charge to counter his decision; it's up to another branch of government, I.e. the legislative branch. There are ways to do things, and there are ways to lose your f'n job and be generally-discharged under other and honorable conditions. He's taking the latter.

[TheSarge]

Wonder if she held the same beliefs about Ehren Watada?

I'm tellin' ya Reb...the rules on that stuff all changed around 1300 on 20 January 2009.

The hereo's speaking truth to power have become "cells of dissenters" working to undermine the government from within.

[Airwolf]

Tx, it's vesta--need I say more?

Correction, It's Princess Vespa

[Airwolf]

I'm with TRG and alot of you guys here that if he wanted to make a stand then he should have done so as a Civilian. The service is more important then a personal crusade/vendetta any day. They have all the resources to put you out they need and getting kicked to the curb isn't worth getting the wal mart greeter job later on when your qualified to much more.

The whole thing about his birth is never going to be settled but we can take his ability to wage the type of social warfare o nthe people by votiong out his party and voting in some people with balls and an understanding of what needs to be done to fix the problems he created.

[Eupher]

....snip
The whole thing about his birth is never going to be settled but we can take his ability to wage the type of social warfare o nthe people by votiong out his party and voting in some people with balls and an understanding of what needs to be done to fix the problems he created.

The issue of Lord Zero's birth could very well be settled, but it won't happen anytime soon - least of all while the asshole is sitting in the Oval Office.

This kind of thing may fly the same course as JFK's assassination, just not as long and certainly not as dramatic.

[rich_t]

Yeah, remember the "and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States"? Whether we like it or not, the idiot is the POTUS and if the Major has a problem with it, he needs to take it up through the channels. This is not a fight he can win.

It is not a fight he can win.  But he obviously feels that it is a fight worth fighting.  That is his choice is it not?

Even if you don't agree with his choice?

[5412]

Whether we like it or not, Professor Dickweed was sworn in by the Chief Justice of the Highest Court of the land. It is not the Major's charge to counter his decision; it's up to another branch of government, I.e. the legislative branch. There are ways to do things, and there are ways to lose your f'n job and be generally-discharged under other and honorable conditions. He's taking the latter.

Hi,

I agree the officer indeed just sealed his career.  Had the democrat party done proper vetting this would not have happened.  Had the court system done it's job it never would have happened.  Had the mainstream press done thier job instead of heading to Alaska to dig up dirt on Palin this never would have happened.  The fact is however it did.  We do not need to continue to compound this problem. 

The fact remains that this idiot in the white house is destroying our country more and more each day.  It is getting obvious that he was not raised in this country and does not have what most would call American values.  Whether he was duly elected or not does not preclude the fact that he is hiding something and probably was not qualified to run for the office and he knows it.  If the major wants to tank his career and can take BO down with him I will be the first to contribute to his legal fund.

They are talking about destroying the military, it is not the Major doing it, it is the libs with BO at the point.  Someday this will all come out and we likely will find out just what a fraud this guy is.  We need to be taking steps to be sure never again can we allow a smooth talking non citizen to ever be in this position of power once again.

regards,
5412

[rich_t]

Hi,

I agree the officer indeed just sealed his career.  Had the democrat party done proper vetting this would not have happened.  Had the court system done it's job it never would have happened.  Had the mainstream press done thier job instead of heading to Alaska to dig up dirt on Palin this never would have happened.  The fact is however it did.  We do not need to continue to compound this problem. 

The fact remains that this idiot in the white house is destroying our country more and more each day.  It is getting obvious that he was not raised in this country and does not have what most would call American values.  Whether he was duly elected or not does not preclude the fact that he is hiding something and probably was not qualified to run for the office and he knows it.  If the major wants to tank his career and can take BO down with him I will be the first to contribute to his legal fund.

They are talking about destroying the military, it is not the Major doing it, it is the libs with BO at the point.  Someday this will all come out and we likely will find out just what a fraud this guy is.  We need to be taking steps to be sure never again can we allow a smooth talking non citizen to ever be in this position of power once again.

regards,
5412

Excellent points.  Ever since Obama's eligibility to hold the office of POTUS came up all those months ago, I have been trying to find what government agency (if any) is responsible for confirming a candidates eligibility to hold the office of President and what form of proof that a candidate is required to submit (if any).

I haven't had a great deal of luck in that search.  Perhaps others can find what I haven't been able to.

[Rebel]

It is not a fight he can win.  But he obviously feels that it is a fight worth fighting.  That is his choice is it not?

Not legally.

[rich_t]

Not legally.

Forgive my ignorance, but what law is he breaking by filing his lawsuit?

To my knowledge he has yet to refuse to follow any order, lawful or otherwise.  He is asking the courts for legal clarification.  At least that is my take after reading the OP article.

[rich_t]

The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809.ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the "lawful command of his superior officer," 891.ART.91 (2), the "lawful order of a warrant officer", 892.ART.92 (1) the "lawful general order", 892.ART.92 (2) "lawful order". In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.

During the Iran-Contra hearings of 1987, Senator Daniel Inouye of Hawaii, a decorated World War II veteran and hero, told Lt. Col. Oliver North that North was breaking his oath when he blindly followed the commands of Ronald Reagan. As Inouye stated, "The uniform code makes it abundantly clear that it must be the Lawful orders of a superior officer. In fact it says, 'Members of the military have an obligation to disobey unlawful orders.'

The bolded portion is where it gets rather sticky.  Is a service member supposed to assume that all orders are legal until they are on trial for obeying them and being charged with a crime because they followed the orders of their superior officers?

The UCMJ doesn't specifically state: 'Members of the military have an obligation to disobey unlawful orders."

But we sure as hell have prosecuted some that did obey certain orders from their superiors.

Where is the service member supposed to draw the line?

How is the service member supposed to discern between lawful and unlawful orders?

According to some of you, no order should be questioned and should be considered lawful until proven otherwise.

The otherwise part might involve your ass being prosecuted and jailed for following such orders.

It's a damn catch-22 for service members.  Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Or am I being obtuse?

[Rebel]

Article 134 can encompass many things.

[docstew]

The bolded portion is where it gets rather sticky.  Is a service member supposed to assume that all orders are legal until they are on trial for obeying them and being charged with a crime because they followed the orders of their superior officers?

The UCMJ doesn't specifically state: 'Members of the military have an obligation to disobey unlawful orders."

But we sure as hell have prosecuted some that did obey certain orders from their superiors.

Where is the service member supposed to draw the line?

How is the service member supposed to discern between lawful and unlawful orders?

According to some of you, no order should be questioned and should be considered lawful until proven otherwise.

The otherwise part might involve your ass being prosecuted and jailed for following such orders.

It's a damn catch-22 for service members.  Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Or am I being obtuse?

That's why they teach everyone down to the newest private some aspects of the law of war, along with requesting clarification when in doubt.  If I recieved orders to deploy from my division commander, I would follow them, no matter where they come from, as I know that he has the authority to give that order.  Just because 0bama is the CINC doesn't make every military order unlawful.  Does it make me telling my Soldier to go to PT unlawful?  How about telling him to go up a hill under fire?  Those are lawful orders.  If I told him to mistreat prisoners or withhold medical treatment, that is an unlawful order.  I'm screwn for giving it, he's screwn if he follows it.  The difference is the first examples, I have command authority (since I'm talking to MY Soldier) and the orders are within the UCMJ.  The second, I have command authority, but the orders are outside the UCMJ.  No court or act of Congress has brought 0bama's command authority into question, whether it deserves to be or not, therefore, as long as the orders given are within the UCMJ, there is a duty to follow them.

[Bluesuiter-Retired]

Another nail in the military's coffin, OH-BUMMER is threatening to veto the pending defense authorization bill for FY2010 because it includes money to build additional F-22s.

If he doesn't allow the military to continue to build the hottest fighter in the sky, then he best get busy and direct that Boeing, which now owns McDonald Douglas, to begin building BRAND NEW F-15s to replace the ones which are falling out of the sky because of fatigue.

[TheSarge]

Another nail in the military's coffin, OH-BUMMER is threatening to veto the pending defense authorization bill for FY2010 because it includes money to build additional F-22s.

If he doesn't allow the military to continue to build the hottest fighter in the sky, then he best get busy and direct that Boeing, which now owns McDonald Douglas, to begin building BRAND NEW F-15s to replace the ones which are falling out of the sky because of fatigue.

Nah they won't do that either.  They'll just ferry the broken ones to Davis-Monthan.  Then tell the people how they've saved the country (insert figure here) in wasteful spending through stricter budgetary discipline.

You know...like when in 2000 Algore bragged on the campaign trail how under his "re-inventing government initative" when he was the VP he "cut 400,000 jobs from the federal payroll and if elected President I won't add a single job to that payroll".

When in reality those 400K jobs that were cut were the 400K members of the armed services they tossed or bribed to get out so they could cut our military to the bare minimum.

[Thor]

Back on topic, the bigger problem with the Major attempting to do this as a civilian is that he would no longer have any "standing" to pursue a lawsuit. Sure he's probably throwing away his career, but this is how he NEEDS to proceed in order to keep his standing.

In similar news, the case may be heard yet: http://vrwcgrapevine.blogspot.com/2009/07/obama-eligibility-case-will-be-heard-on.html

Obama eligibility case will be heard on merits!!
GREAT NEWS ALERT!!

Obama eligibility case will be heard on merits !!
Please distribute everywhere.

Just got off the phone with Orly Taitz, the attorney in Keyes v. Obama.

At the hearing today at the Federal Court building in Santa Ana, Judge Carter said the following:
1. There will be a trial.
2. It will be heard on the merits.
3. Nothing will be dismissed on proceedural issues.
4. The trial will be expeditious, and the judge pledged to give case priority.
5. Being a former Marine he realizes the importance of having a Constitutionally qualified POTUS/CINC.
6. Judge stated that if Obama isn't Constitutionally qualifed he needs to leave the White House.

The DOJ will be involved with the case also.... I wasn't clear if they would be trying to get to the truth or they would just be blindly representing Obama.

Orly will be adding members of the military from California as plaintiffs also.This is from what my interpretation of our conversation.Orly, asked me to disseminate this information out for her, she will be doing a posting later after she gets some sleep.

Please say a prayer of protection for Orly, her family, and Judge Carter. Please also pray that the truth will come to light regarding Obama and justice will be done.

[AllosaursRus]

Whether he was duly elected or not does not preclude the fact that he is hiding something and probably was not qualified to run for the office and he knows it.

I think he's pretty safe though. Actually he was eRected, not eLected. Had to be, 'cause he's the biggest "boner" to hold the office in my lifetime!

[Eupher]

I think he's pretty safe though. Actually he was eRected, not eLected. Had to be, 'cause he's the biggest "boner" to hold the office in my lifetime!

AllosaursRus, you do have a way with words.