http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5969943Oh my.
The grouchy old primitive, from Illinois:
NNN0LHI (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-01-09 11:21 PM
Original message
Share your food with someone who is hungry and off to jail you go
http://www.newhavenadvocate.com/article.cfm?aid=13612
Soup Kitchen, or Picnic?
The activists of Middletown's Food Not Bombs insist they're simply sharing their food, not feeding the hungry
Food Not Bombs — a grassroots group active in 1,000 cities worldwide according to co-founder Keith McHenry — characterizes the vegan food they serve at the corner of Main and Liberty streets in Middletown every Sunday at 1 p.m. as the equivalent of a picnic, and everyone is invited to attend. No strings attached.
The group does have a political message to go along with their meals — that governments worldwide should spend less on defense and more on providing "food security" for their citizens.
"We don't prescribe to any grand overarching message except that food is a right, not a privilege," says Abe Bobman, a sophomore at Wesleyan University. "We're just cooking a meal and sharing it for free." snip
Nice try, says Thazhampallath, but the city of Middletown isn't buying it.
"I don't think we can pick and choose who we enforce the health codes for," he says. "Their cause is admirable. All we're asking is that they also try to honor the structures we've put in place to guard public health."
In late April, two FNB members were given $100 citations, and on May 3 Bobman was arrested on a criminal misdemeanor charge of violating a health department order and fined $300, plus possible jail time.
Isn't Connecticut one of those blue states? And Middletown one of those blue cities?
It's an enormous bonfire, so only the Primitives of Prominence are quoted.
First up, the Rita Hayworth primitive:
Tangerine LaBamba (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-01-09 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, the DELICIOUS irony of this one - they want the government to provide "more food security," but they refuse to adhere to the local health codes.
Self-involved idiots...................
The Rita Hayworth primitive admits to some hard times, when she was younger; the selling apples, Hoovervilles, bread lines, whatnot:
Tangerine LaBamba (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-02-09 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. And you're sure that I haven't?
The issue, my friend, is not hunger.................
The army of Wal-Mart primitive:
armyowalgreens (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-02-09 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #9
35. Well I hope you don't suffer from explosive diarrhea.
And you probably won't thanks to the Health Department.
I love that term, "explosive diarrhea." Use it all the time.
Name removed (0 posts) Thu Jul-02-09 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. Deleted message
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Name removed (0 posts) Thu Jul-02-09 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
24. Deleted message
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ThomCat (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-02-09 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Yeah, I guess I'm one of those "self involved idiots."
I spent years making sandwiches with my own money once a week and walking around giving them away to homeless people who couldn't get into the over-capacity soup kitchens. It was just PB+J sandwiches, Hummus with lettuce and tomato, ham and cheese, and lettuce tomato and roast beef, and then we'd cruise through Manhattan finding hungry people.
I'm vegan but I don't expect others to be, so we always had a selection. Give them what they want. The ham and cheese was the most popular. (Despite the shit I hear about vegans being obnoxious, honestly, I rarely find it to be true. It's the meat-eaters who hate us who tend to be obnoxious for no good reason.)
No, none of it was made in an health-inspected kitchen. It was made in a dorm room, or in an apartment. But we figured that what was most important was that people who wouldn't otherwise get any access to food at all should get couple of sandwiches. They were not going to get anything from a restaurant kitchen. Should they go hungry?
It is very easy to insist that every source of food has to come from an inspected kitchen. That is wonderful in an ideal world where there are enough people with enough resources, enough funding making sure everyone has food. But mostly, Strict applications of codes are used to shut down services for the homeless, and then to drive the homeless into someone else's jurisdiction so that they become someone else's problem. That's the real reason for the strict adherence to codes. A quiet application of bigotry against the homeless hidden inside the law.
Otherwise you tend to get people who are concerned about practical applications of codes for everyone's benefit. Sometimes you have to recognize that different people have different needs, and the codes have to serve everyone including the homeless, and not enforcing a code can be the what is best for some people in some cases.
The watery primitive:
H2O Man (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-02-09 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #13
49. I am, as well.
I work with a food pantry that is run out of the basement of an area church. There are some curious restrictions on what can and can't be provided to the poor. Some of the regulations go back to the Reagan Administration, which had all the compassion that one would expect from Herod.
In the holiday seasons, it's against some law or another for the church ladies (and a few of us men) to bake and distribute pies, cookies, etc. Those wonderful plastic-tasting things with more preservatives than fruit, which one can purchase for an inflated price, are A-okay. But a homemade pie is illegal to distribute.
I recognize that there are dangers in having poor children eat a homemade pie at, say, Christmas time. They might even think about the true meaning of that holiday, rather than remain focused upon the bright lights and advertised sales that corrupt human nature. I feel so guilty, sometimes.
Tangerine LaBamba (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-02-09 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Before we discuss the history of this matter, tell me what the status of mirrors in my home has to do with anything?
Or were you just interested in making this a personal attack?
Surely, you're not that thick. It isn't possible.......................
Homerun for the Rita Hayworth primitive, who was attacked by a nothing
unterprimitiven, not quoted here. franksolich doesn't do
unterprimitiven.
Tangerine LaBamba (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-02-09 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Why make it personal?
Why insult me because my opinion of the situation is different from yours?
You're just not terribly bright, and haven't the slightest idea of the why that situation is funny
Honey, I never gave a damn.
And aren't you the virtuous one, announcing your intentions, to buy some homeless people some food?
You are a damn saint.
I am humbled in the presence of such a superior soul.
Your magnanimity is vast.
So is that size of that empty space between your ears................................
Tangerine LaBamba (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-02-09 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Agreed, and isn't that what the group is fighting for?
So why do they decide they're above compliance with health codes? I find the dissonance really funny, but check out the responses I got above because I pointed out the idiocy of their stance.
Some people just don't get it and can't wait to jump on the Smug, Self-Righteous, Stupid Bandwagon........................................
Tangerine LaBamba (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-02-09 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. It's more self-indulgent, spoiled kids who would blink like sightless fish under a spotlight if you mentioned Upton Sinclair to them.
Sometimes, you know, the density just makes me wonder........................
armyowalgreens (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-02-09 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Tin foil hat conspiracies? The homeless people didn't hike 20 miles from another town...
They are homeless people from that town. If anything, the city should be thanking them for taking a little strain off the shelters.
armyowalgreens (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-02-09 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. No.
Handing a chicken leg to a passerby is not the same as running a legitimate food operation. It doesn't make a difference that it's free.
Take it from someone who works in the food business. When you advertise yourself as a place for people to eat, you will be subject to health codes of every other place that serves food. The grass roots group was attempting to out smart the health department by labeling it a giant "picnic".
If they actually give a damn about the people they are helping, and I assume they do, they should be willing to keep the food in a safe environment. In other words, they should be willing to follow the health codes.
Giving a piece of chicken to someone who asks for it is not advertising yourself as a food source for anyone willing to come over. Now if you showed up with a truck load of chicken legs and started handing them out to everyone, you would then be subject to health codes.
A mere
unterprimitiven, part of the faceless lynch-mob that is 99% of the amorphous blob of Skins's island, has the temerity to call the army of Wal-Mart primitive a "kid," which raises franksolich's hackles. A lesser should not abuse a superior.
armyowalgreens (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-02-09 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. Unfortunately, if they cannot keep the food safe, they should scale down operations to afford it.
I'm all for helping the homeless and needy. I've spent a good amount of time at St. Vincent De Paul's food bank in Phx. But we make sure the food is safe to consume. Because the last thing we'd want is someone, who is already in a bad situation, getting sick.
As far as your over production of chicken, it's still a poor comparison. What you did was accidental and on a small scale compared to the groups production of meals. And I would hope that you wouldn't serve cold chicken to people. The entire intent of the group is to distribute food to people. They are dealing with many more mouths and a much higher probability of contamination. They need to comply with the health codes.
Like I have said before, the health codes are there for a reason. They really do keep people safe. I wouldn't give a potentially dangerous meal to someone, no matter what situation they were in. That's just irresponsible.
armyowalgreens (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-02-09 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #50
59. After rethinking my stance...
I actually realized that I am making a mistake. I am assuming the Health Department was sincere in their actions in order to counter your assumption that they were insincere.
I do not know the true intent behind their actions. I apologize for being so obtuse.
And then another
unterprimitiven questions the qualifications of the army of Wal-Mart primitive for food-handling.
armyowalgreens (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-02-09 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. Yes. But I've been handling food for a while.
That was my first waiting gig.
My dad is the GM of a restaurant, I've helped him a lot over the years with pie packaging and other stuff, and I've worked with food banks before.
Uh-oh. That "was" sounds ominous. The army of Wal-Mart primitive is no longer waiting tables at the Village Inn? One wonders what's up with that.
armyowalgreens (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-02-09 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. I agree. I was overly confident.
Also, I work in the same company as my dad, but not in the same restaurant. I just happened to find out about a job opening at another store from him.
armyowalgreens (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-02-09 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
31. There is a reason why we have health codes. We don't want people sick.
It's not like the health department is out to get these people. They simply want to prevent food borne illness. Which is a big problem.
I see nothing wrong with the actions of the city.
armyowalgreens (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-02-09 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. Yes Yes I know your mantra already.
Thanks but no thanks.
I don't subscribe to opinion based theories.
armyowalgreens (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-02-09 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. I understand that you have first hand experience with situations like this...
But you don't have first hand experience with this situation. Which is why your theory is opinion based.
" 'I don't think we can pick and choose who we enforce the health codes for,' he says. 'Their cause is admirable. All we're asking is that they also try to honor the structures we've put in place to guard public health.' "
^That makes perfect sense to me. The government isn't always out to get people.
Simply because my mom is being dragged through the mud by corporate fat cats and asshole money-grubbers does not mean I have to hate every organization that comes into conflict with charitable people. Sometimes the conflict is legitimate.
One of course always has to be skeptical of primitives trying to pass as young-uns when in real life they're old-uns, but obviously the army of Wal-Mart primitive is authentically a young one, green and naive on Skins's island, getting all tied up in knots by hardened, coarse, brutal, calloused
unterprimitiven older than he is.
armyowalgreens (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-02-09 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Nope misinterpretation.
1. The city should be thanking the group for attempting to help the homeless and, in turn, alleviating the strain on homeless shelters.
2. However, they should be making sure that the food from the group is safe to consume.
I was addressing two different points.
armyowalgreens (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-02-09 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. Let me reword this then...
I'll get all the details in there so you can understand this.
I want the group to provide food to the needy. However, I also understand why they need to comply with the health code. So while I think the city should be thanking the group for trying to alleviate the strain on shelters, I agree that shutting them down until they comply is the only option.
After which the grouchy old primitive and the watery primitive comment that Skins's island is much like the massive continent of freerepublic.
