http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5946623Oh my.
The never-ending woes of the primitives.
mopinko (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 04:11 PM
Original message
has anyone here gone through chapter 7 bankruptcy? credit counseling from an approved credit counselor is required, the d.o.j. website says. has anyone done this since the recent overhaul of bankruptcy laws?
my daughter needs to file, i think. or try. she is a college kid with a shit part-time job. she recently escaped a sorta psycho relationship. she lived with this clown for a year, and they racked up a $10k credit card bill. i don't think he worked at all in that year, with the exception of a short lived job as a bus boy.
she says it is all in her name, and he should not be involved. (i think both names were on the account, tho. one reason i think the feds would be good. don't know if the collector has his info.) we can help her, but not to the tune of $10k. i think that i could negotiate pretty well with the bill collectors if she and they would let me do the talking.
she would not be all that hep on that. (we do not get along too well. long story.)
so i am wondering if these credit counselors are worth a shit or if they are just shills for the creditors. an objective person would be a good thing, if that is what they are.
there are a lot of companies on the list. if anyone has any connection to any of them
i would appreciate the info.
http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/ccde/cc_approved.htm
ok, i am working on a project here, so i am off for a little, but i will be back.
melm00se (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. it depends if you go to a not for profit credit counseling service (http://www.nfcc.org/index.cfm ) then they are on the up and up. the for profit ones are out for their own benefit.
the not for profit ones are funded by contributions from the lenders (usually 5% of the disbursements paid thru CCCS - please note that the debtor's payments are credited at 100%).
whether or not the boyfriend is listed on the account should have little or no bearing on whether she can or should file.
SeattleGirl (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. I went through Chapter 7, and had to do the credit counseling thing.
The names on the list are ones that are approved by the bankruptcy court, so any one of them should be fine.
And a question for you: if your daughter does file, is she going to use an attorney? I used one, and I'm glad I did, because I had a lot of questions and he and his assistant were very good at answering them. It's not something I would have wanted to walk through by myself.
The unemployed Twix candy bar primitive, who used to be a floor supervisor for Target:
TwixVoy (999 posts) Sun Jun-28-09 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. Do NOT even THINK about BK over this!
I can not believe you would even think about doing a chapter 7 over this. That would be the absolute WORST move you could make and will screw her on loans for potentially life.
A credit card is UNSECURED debt. That means they can't do a damn thing other than pester her to pay them. In SOME states they can garnish wages, but if she has a part time job they can't even do that because she has to at least be making more than she needs to live on.
They could potentially get a judgment against her, but that is unlikely because almost no bank considers 10K enough to justify the time and expense of getting a judgment. But again, if she doesn't have a job that pays her high enough wages even a judgment would be pointless for them to get.
CHECK YOUR STATES STATUE OF LIMITATIONS! Usually credit cards can only be collected on for around 4 years. After that (as long as she hasn't paid them one cent in that time) they are no longer able to even get a judgment.
They will likely also be willing to settle if she wants to pay them after it has gone to charge off status. USUALLY you can get them to settle for 50% of the balance.
She will have this on her credit reports for 7 years. After that is is gone and done with.
A bankruptcy is FAR FAR FAR FAR WORSE than a credit card in collection status. DO NOT FILE BANKRUPTCY OVER THIS! A chapter 7 will be on her reports for 10 years versus 7 AND many loan applications ask the question "HAVE YOU EVER FILED BANKRUPTCY?" The key word being "EVER". A bankruptcy will effect her FOREVER because even after it is off her credit reports 10 years from now she will still have to answer YES to that question.
If all she has is a credit card charge off in 7 years it will be GONE forever. Her FICO score will also be MUCH higher during those 7 years with just a credit card charge off compared to a bankruptcy.
Also most credit counseling places are scams. She doesn't need them if you educate your self. Best move if she can't pay at this point is to stop paying. She will have to deal with phone calls, but that will be the worst of it. In 7 years it will drop off and be gone.
Uh-oh.
david13 (404 posts) Sun Jun-28-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Twixie, I don't know how long you been an Attorney at Law, licensed to practice in the courts of your state, and the federal court, but I have been so for 31 years.
I say: A. Poor advice and not true.
B. She should see an attorney.
TwixVoy (999 posts) Sun Jun-28-09 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. So tell me Mr Attorney
What did I say exactly that is not true?
TwixVoy (999 posts) Sun Jun-28-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Crickets
The grouchy old primitive:
NNN0LHI (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Crickets after less than 25 minutes?
I burned up 15 dollars worth of fillet mignon's on the grill earlier today while chatting here. Lost track of time. Perhaps the poster you are trying to bully has more sense than me and is busy making sure his stuff isn't burning up?
Relax. Calm down. We are not in any hurry around here. We have all day.
NNN0LHI (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Any time I have had the type of questions in the OP ...
... the best advice I ever received was to talk to an attorney before doing anything.
And when I went to an attorney to ask some questions and get a little sound advice it was always the best 50 or a hundred dollars I have ever spent.
Thats a fact.
A message board is not the place to ask these kinds of questions to begin with.
For the OP mopinko, take david13's advice and get an appointment to see an attorney on this matter. It will be the best 50 or a hundred bucks you ever spend. It will give you peace of mind which you can't even put a dollar amount on.
TwixVoy (999 posts) Sun Jun-28-09 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. You are making the fatal mistake of assuming the attorney he goes to will actually have his best interests in mind. If he tells him the truth - that even thinking about bankruptcy over a 10K unsecured loan is stupid - the attorney gets nothing. On the other hand if he advises him it's a good move he gets to charge him $800 to file some quick paperwork for him.
This is like me going to a car dealer and asking him if he thinks I should trade in my 5 year old car that works great and buy a new one. Care to guess what his response would be?
Best advice for the OP would be to visit a forum dedicated to credit issues like creditboards.com and read up. You will find plenty of people VERY knowledgeable on the subject who don't have a vested interest in getting you to file BK.
NNN0LHI (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Get my advice concerning financial matters from an anonymous internet chat site?
Thanks but no thanks.
TwixVoy (999 posts) Sun Jun-28-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Get your advice from someone who wants to make a buck off you?
Equally as bad.
mopinko (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. yes, an attorney would be a good idea. i know one who would be honest if he isn't too busy running for the state senate yet.
i take anything posted here with a grain of salt. but there is nothing like having the experience of all these folks to make a first step.
nini (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. however getting one's debts discharged allows them to start saving again and not paying debt for years and years.
Depending on a person's situation it may make more sense to take the hit and quit throwing money away to creditors and rebuild their life. Then in that 7-10 years they did not pay about tens of thousands of dollars and instead saved and rebuild their lives with that money.
I did this and now have a mortgage and excellent credit - Chapter 7 is not the end of the world if you are smart after doing so. I looked at it as investing in my life not the credit cards companies who were going to smack me down anyway on my credit report.
Waiting For Everyman (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. You're exactly right, TwixVoy.
One credit card doesn't warrant BK, and neither does the $10K amount. What TV says is right - all the collectors can do is pester her with calls... so simply don't answer/talk to them. It will do no good unless/until she can negotiate a reduced lump sum payoff anyhow. Pretty soon, they'll be offering her 50% to 30% to settle. If she does, she should get it removed from her credit report entirely, or refuse to do it.
And btw, creditboards.com has excellent info. And yes, the atty has a vested interest in advising to file the BK. That's like taking out a machine gun to kill an ant, in this situation.
And yes, I've done the above myself. Unable to pay, so I didn't, and just waited it out without filing. The debts became unenforceable 4 years ago - in my state they're good for 3 years. It's been 7 years now, and they're coming off my credit report one by one this year.
TwixVoy (999 posts) Sun Jun-28-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Exactly
The fact that so many seem to think BK is the correct response to a 10K unsecured credit card scares the hell out of me.
Jeep789 (668 posts) Sun Jun-28-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. Don't forget what a Bankruptcy might do to a job search these days. I really hate that they tie credit ratings to jobs but they do.
mopinko (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. this had absolutely occurred to me
another daughter went through the same thing, (over half this much $) and due to moving a couple times managed to sweat it out. wasn't fun, tho. process servers at your door is uncool. county sheriffs, too. doesn't bother me, but if the wrong person answered the door, it might be trouble.
mostly, i just wish mr asshole had to share the sweat. this is in her name because he could not get his ass unstuck from the couch long enough to get a job.
who the hell gave these 2 a credit card deserves the default. no job and $100/week. i guess they give them to anyone with a pulse these days.
TwixVoy (999 posts) Sun Jun-28-09 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. They do give them to anyone with a pulse
how old was the lazy punk?
mopinko (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. 25
no school, not even a high school diploma. probably was a bus boy at the time.
but it is in her name. part time job at a doggie day care. $8.40/hr. probably got it because she is in college. she has a long way to go, tho. she wants a masters, and she is barely going full time.
Jeep789 (668 posts) Sun Jun-28-09 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'm in the same situation with my son
I considered suggesting bankruptcy as an option but after doing the research decided it probably wouldn't be the best thing for him. I'd be willing to help him out but don't think he has learned anything yet and would probably make the same mistake over again. Anyhow, he knows everything and thinks he can handle everything himself.
This is the most awful age yet. I just hope he survives it and becomes the sweet, sane, reliable guy he was as a child.
mopinko (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. yup, right there we are.
she listens to dad somewhat, but mom? forget it. the sky is blue? you're shitting me.
yes, i would like her to learn a lesson. although i think she has. she is back home with us, and asshole is not. it was quite a journey with all that.
most of all i just want her to keep on track and stay in school. wish you could give them a pill to forget about the opposite sex. the road to ruin is paved with cute boys.
donco6 (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
23. Is there anything either of you has worth $10K to secure a loan?
I'd try that way before bankruptcy - especially now the law has changed. But good luck to you either way. That's gotta be rough.
mopinko (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. oh, we could borrow the money, it just makes me puke to clean up after that asshole.
and the kid has to figure this shit out. she is horrible with money. we do spoil them. but we try not to.
donco6 (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Yeah, but sadly, to the courts, it's not HIM on the line.
Maybe you can make her sit and watch 24 hours of Judge Judy. Because this story is repeated ad infinitum. And the girls are usually the ones on the hook.
mopinko (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. i believe he had a card in his name.
she says it was in her name, but snoop mom saw a pair of cards with one account number.
and-justice-for-all (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
24. I did mine in 98...which I also tried "credit counseling", which I think is a joke. My sister tried that recently and she got burned, the "credit counseling" folks faulted on payments to her creditors; sp then she had to go to court.
Try getting a consolidation loan first, then if all else fails file Chap.7
The cop-hating primitive:
backscatter712 (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-28-09 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
30. I went through debt hell a few years ago.
Had a bad credit-card chargeoff, and some federal student loan debt.
I ended up deciding against bankruptcy - for one thing, I was unemployed at the time, and thus judgment proof (collectors won't spend the money to sue you if they don't think they'll be able to collect, which was my case because I was dead broke.)
Eventually, I was able to negotiate a rehabilitation of my student loan debts - they gave me some deferments, I started making payments again, and now I'm back on track on those. When I found work again, I decided to proactively call the company that owned my old credit card debt, and negotiated a payoff of that (once I was employed, I'd no longer be judgment-proof, so I decided I had to deal with that.)
Today, I'm completely paid off on my debts, except for the student loan (Stafford loans) which I'm paying on-time. Since then, I'd bought a car, made all the payments, and paid that loan down, 100% completely on time. FICO went from the mid-500s during the time of debt hell to the high 600s today, so I'd say that without declaring bankruptcy, I'm in pretty good shape.
