Author Topic: How Obama Is Killing Health Reform  (Read 2430 times)

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Offline RobJohnson

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How Obama Is Killing Health Reform
« on: June 21, 2009, 11:52:38 AM »
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billyoc  (1000+ posts)        Sun Jun-21-09 11:40 AM

How Obama Is Killing Health ReformHow Obama Is Killing Health Reform
 There is no health care debate in the United States. There’s not even a debate over principles. You’d think a nation intent on overhauling a broken system that presidents going back to Harry Truman have been trying to fix would want to openly discuss what it wants — universal care? Single-payer? A private-public combination? Nationalized insurance? Nationalized care? All very different things. None is being aired in congressional hearings and town hall meetings, with one exception: Tinkering with more of the same.

When even Barack Obama — the last great hope for reforming the West’s trashiest health care system — plays into the rhetorical ambushes of reform’s enemies, it’s clear that the debate has been hijacked by shams over the language of reform rather than its substance. Detractors can lob meaningless phrases like “government-run health care” and “socialized medicine” all day long, knowing that the diversion is enough to keep reform comatose. In an almost hour-long address to the American Medical Association on Monday, Obama couldn’t bring himself even once to say universal health care.

He did want to bat off a “concern that’s being put forward by those who are claiming that a public option is somehow a Trojan horse for a single-payer system. I’ll be honest.” Obama went on, “there are countries where a single-payer system works pretty well. But I believe — and I’ve taken some flak from members of my own party for this belief — that it’s important for our reform efforts to build on our traditions here in the United States. So when you hear the naysayers claim that I’m trying to bring about government-run health care, know this: They’re not telling the truth.”

But Obama was as guilty as those naysayers for equating such things as “single-payer” with “government-run health care,” instead of setting them straight. Medicare is a single-payer, public system. It’s not government-run. It’s nationalized insurance, but it enables private care. It’s similar to what Germany, France and Japan provide all citizens, even (as in France) giving individuals full freedom to have supplemental, private insurance. As such, incidentally, Medicare is also more efficient, more fair, less wasteful, less bureaucratic and more choice-conscious than private insurers. Medicare is one of those “traditions” that work in the United States. Instead of presenting it as America’s single-payer system, Obama chose to dismiss the single-payer approach, dishonestly and by association, as “government-run.” He made the naysayers’ day.

...

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/06/21-3



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HamdenRice (1000+ posts)        Sun Jun-21-09 11:46 AM

1. Obama killing reform? By demanding Congress provide a public option? 
 Or are you just attributing all the obstruction of the Repugs and Blue Dogs to Obama?

I suppose Obama shot that girl in Iran and is also single handedly causing the Greenland ice sheet to melt.

And don't get me started on that cholera epidemic in Congo. Also all Obama's fault.


The DUmmies are getting mad at the OP.
 
 

Offline franksolich

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Re: How Obama Is Killing Health Reform
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2009, 06:09:59 PM »
You know, I'm finding this primitive obsession with free medical care for all tedious.

NOT the theads about the issue posted here, but just the primitive obsession with it.

Medical care, I suppose, is important, but on my own scale of priorities, it's not even in the top ten.  Or twenty.  And I am saying this as an individual who has some medical insurance, but what's generally considered "inadequate" or "below minimal" (no prescription drug coverage, no dental coverage, no optometry coverage, a very high deductible, &c., &c., &c.).

I've never reached the deductible; for years and years my medical care has been cash (the flip side to that being, if one offers cash--no checks, no credit card, no "I'll pay next week," just plain ordinary cash on the spot and one gets a receipt--one ends up paying, for example, $85 for something usually circa $225).

I was in the hospital for two and a half days the weekend after Thanksgiving, and that too was cash, three figures.  (It was, one must admit, a pretty uncomplicated case, requiring little more than bed rest.)

Sometimes one has to scramble for the cash, and so yes, it can be a problem.

However.

Medical care is important, but it's not anything I obsess over; instead, I spend a great deal of time worrying about national defense, the liberation of the enslaved, education, highways, space exploration, freedom of speech and religious expression, the right to life, social justice, the environment, govenmental taxes and expenditures, &c., &c., &c. (in no particular order of priority).

I suspect the primitives are obsessed with free medical care for all, because refusing to acknowledge God, they have a fear of death.  It's natural, it's a good thing, to fear death, but from observing the primitives, one gets the impression their fear of death far transcends the boundaries of the normal fear of death.
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Offline Carl

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Re: How Obama Is Killing Health Reform
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2009, 06:50:25 PM »
I won`t disagree with you Frank on their fear of death but I also think too that it is their get out of jail free card as well.

The vehicle that now they can`t afford to go to every day but what they think will get them disqualified from participating in productive society once it is "free".

Offline miskie

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Re: How Obama Is Killing Health Reform
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2009, 07:56:58 PM »
I think Free Medical Care is their raison d'etre at the moment - I feel its the belief that granting such a thing by a Democrat will make the case forever and ever that Democrats provide for everyone.

But is just not going to happen.

Regardless of how much the end user pays, someone along the line has to pay the rest of the bill.

The closest you are going to get is Romneycare. Deal with it.

Offline Lord Undies

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Re: How Obama Is Killing Health Reform
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2009, 08:24:01 PM »
Why in th hell do they think anyone wants to be forced to pay to insure every perfectly healthy young person?  The entire idea is just ridiculous.  If an unlikely soul gets sick or injured, fine - let's help them - directly out of the treasury on an "as needed" basis. 

Offline Traveshamockery

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Re: How Obama Is Killing Health Reform
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2009, 08:58:45 PM »
In my opinion, aren't there needs that occur on a daily basis for people?  Like food and housing?  You can't walk into a grocery store and demand free food and you certainly can't walk into a hotel and get a roof over your head for free. 

I do believe there are people in this country who need help and need assistance with paying their medical bills - those who are legitimately disabled.

But people want it all for free.  My husband and I could refuse his employer-based health insurance but we don't because we feel it is worthwhile.  Sure, we could find something better to do with the $100 or so per month we spend for it.  I suspect there are far too many people screaming they want free health care and could get it but choose to buy crapola instead of buying health insurance. 

And don't get me started on the illegal immigrants.  It's time this government stop making the legal citizens of this country pay for their medical care and everything else. 


Offline Mr Mannn

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Re: How Obama Is Killing Health Reform
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2009, 09:19:15 PM »
I think Primitives see this as an opiate, and the govt as a replacement for God.
I can guarantee they will leach every last cent out of the system. They will use and abuse this free system. Its their glory hole for free drugs, sex change surgeries, and elective medical care of every type. DU will transform into the biggest bunch of hypochondriacs ever.

To DUmmies, this is their payback for years of service in the trenches.
Thats why they are so upset over the possible failure of Govt Paid Health Care.

Offline RobJohnson

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Re: How Obama Is Killing Health Reform
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2009, 09:58:30 AM »
Just because we have the right to have healthcare, does not mean it's to be paid for by the gov't.

We have the right to religious beliefts, yet the gov't does not pay our tithes.

We have the right to bear arms, yet the gov't does not buy our guns.

DUmmies don't get it.

It's too simple for them.

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cali  (1000+ posts)        Sun Jun-21-09 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
7. this is silly. the main obstacle to real healthcare reform, as anyone with two brain cells
 to rub together knows, is the Congress. Full Stop. Period. And it's simply untrue to say that Obama has conflated single payer with government run healthcare. Far from it, he's repeatedly distinguished between the two.

Dishonest article from you. hardly a surprise.


cali blames congress...which of course is ran by Dems........... :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


 



Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: How Obama Is Killing Health Reform
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2009, 10:40:24 AM »
food stamps, section 8...

what next free beer?

Offline delilahmused

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Re: How Obama Is Killing Health Reform
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2009, 12:14:29 PM »
Until they can answer this for me, I will NEVER support government/universal/single payer/whatever the trendy phrase of the day is:

IF GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE IS SO GREAT WHY DOES SHE NEED A SUPPLEMENT THAT COSTS HER $100 A MONTH OVER AND ABOVE THE AMOUNT ALREADY TAKEN OUT FOR MEDICARE? And really, she's pretty much forced to have a supplemental program. Still, her prescriptions (WITH a supplement) can run as high as $500 a month. Nothing exotic...just what one would expect a 90 year old to be taking...heart, blood pressure, etc.

The really sad part is, back during the depression she bought in to Roosevelt's promises. She still thinks he did her a favor. If it weren't for my aunt & uncle having a duplex she can live in (she pays minimal rent...she would NEVER live anywhere for free) Lord knows where she would be. Well, she'd have to live with one of us but she's really not ready to give up her freedom yet. Bless her heart, for a woman who went from her parent's house to my grandfather's house, since he died she's become fiercely independent. Too bad the quality of her life is completely dependent upon the stipend the government doles out to her.

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Offline Rebel

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Re: How Obama Is Killing Health Reform
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2009, 02:36:02 PM »
http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ehi/Alliance?allid=Yah26044&sid=tlp

I found health insurance from 66 bucks to 250 bucks at my age, and as a smoker. Buy your own f'n health insurance, DUmbasses. I didn't conceive your sorry asses.

BTW, that's cheap as hell when it comes to taking care of yourself. It's significantly cheaper than auto insurance. What more rights and/or responsibilities do these idiots want to give up? At what point in time do they finally grow out of adolescence? 25? 35? 50?
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: How Obama Is Killing Health Reform
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2009, 07:16:15 PM »
They loved commondream.org's articles when that rag was ripping GWB.  What happened?   :whatever:

Quote from:
billyoc

Medicare is a single-payer, public system. It’s not government-run.

Medicare Part A is financed through FICA and Self-Employment Tax constributions, and Part B is financed through a combination of participant premium payments and federal subsidies out of general revenue funds.  Medicare is administered by the CMS and the Social Security Administration conducts enrollment and plays a role in the claims appeal process.  You can't say it's a public system and then turn around and make out like the gov't doesn't run the program.  They got their fingerprints all over it and their hands all in it.

.



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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: How Obama Is Killing Health Reform
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2009, 08:17:15 PM »
Free health care is nothing more than the Dems trolling for voters. The more they get in the public trough, the closer they get to controlling the country. After all, that is truly what they are after!
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Offline RobJohnson

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Re: How Obama Is Killing Health Reform
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2009, 07:45:14 AM »
http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ehi/Alliance?allid=Yah26044&sid=tlp

I found health insurance from 66 bucks to 250 bucks at my age, and as a smoker. Buy your own f'n health insurance, DUmbasses. I didn't conceive your sorry asses.

BTW, that's cheap as hell when it comes to taking care of yourself. It's significantly cheaper than auto insurance. What more rights and/or responsibilities do these idiots want to give up? At what point in time do they finally grow out of adolescence? 25? 35? 50?

One problem is, just because you can find insurance at those prices you might not qualify for coverage once you apply.

I've checked around for quotes, just to find the value of what I have through my employer & could not find much that had less then a $5,000 deductable. That would suck.

Offline RobJohnson

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Re: How Obama Is Killing Health Reform
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2009, 07:46:21 AM »
Free health care is nothing more than the Dems trolling for voters. The more they get in the public trough, the closer they get to controlling the country. After all, that is truly what they are after!

Yup.

Offline DixieBelle

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Re: How Obama Is Killing Health Reform
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2009, 07:48:51 AM »
Free health care is nothing more than the Dems trolling for voters. The more they get in the public trough, the closer they get to controlling the country. After all, that is truly what they are after!

Exactly. They are insane. They think that doing the same thing over and over (attempting to make us a Socialist country) is going to net different results someday.
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Offline RobJohnson

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Re: How Obama Is Killing Health Reform
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2009, 08:21:06 AM »
They loved commondream.org's articles when that rag was ripping GWB.  What happened?   :whatever:

Medicare Part A is financed through FICA and Self-Employment Tax constributions, and Part B is financed through a combination of participant premium payments and federal subsidies out of general revenue funds.  Medicare is administered by the CMS and the Social Security Administration conducts enrollment and plays a role in the claims appeal process.  You can't say it's a public system and then turn around and make out like the gov't doesn't run the program.  They got their fingerprints all over it and their hands all in it.

.





The Feds contract with private insurance companies that are able to provide more benefits for less money! Shocker!

Many Medicaire Advantage plans include no cost part d drug coverage, saving our eldery hundreds of dollars in premiums each year.