primitives discuss jail

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5808624

Oh my.

SmileyRose  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jun-09-09 01:35 AM
Original message
 
How bad could jail be?

I'm on jury duty this week. I've been in the "pool" about every 18 months for the 25 years I've lived here. Never before selected.

Until today.

It's an old man - he took a waterblaster into a bank and handed the teller a stick up note. He put the watergun on the counter and sat down and waited for police. He apologized to everyone for causing a fuss, the security guard went and got him a chair while they waited.

His wife died 2 years ago. He has no kids. He has cancer. The medical bills are piling up and he can't take care of himself anymore. He can't afford to hire someone, can't afford assisted living, can't even really afford the medicare premiums - leave a fair portion of the bills for him to pay.

He said he spent weeks thinking about suicide. But decided 3 squares, a roof and medical care in jail was preferable. The only reason it was a jury trial is because a previous judge ruled with the man's attorney that he's not competent plead guilty or make decisions about how his legal team should proceed. So some court somewhere decided he would get a jury trial. They could not stop him from standing up and insisting he have a chance to take the stand.

It was obvious his mind is just fine. Loneliness and poverty are not equal to insanity. The last thing he said before he went back to his seat is "I'm dying, how bad could jail be?"

We found him guilty. The judge gave him the max - 5 years. It's long enough to make sure he's taken care of until he dies. I cried in my car for a full 10 minutes before I could even think about driving home.

I don't even know if I have enough of me to care about one more person. My life is overloaded beyond even what I could imagine right now. But somehow I'm going to visit that man as often as I can.

flvegan  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jun-09-09 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
 
2. He wasn't competent to plead, but he was competent to stand trial?

Richest country (allegedly) in the world, and we can't take care of our poor, our senior citizens, our veterans.

The shame.

A primitive who does know about jail:

Richard Steele  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jun-09-09 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
 
4. Shame is the word for it.

SmileyRose  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jun-09-09 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
 
10. I up in the middle of the night trying to figure out if I was crying for him or for me.

I felt embarrassed for my community, my state, my country - myself.

And also thought - there but for the grace of god go I.

Anyone who spends a lifetime working to put wealth in some stockholder's pocket deserves better.

The Rita Hayworth primitive, who's showing some of the fuddly-duddly senescence that accompanies extreme old age:

Tangerine LaBamba  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jun-09-09 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
 
3. Bless you .........

This happened in our America.

You should write this up - just as it is - and send it to President Obama.

And to your local newspaper.

And to your Senators and Congressman.

And to Howard Dean.

And to Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow.

Bless your heart. I have tears in my eyes, but at least he'll be taken care of. If you can get his address, find out if he'd like to have mail. I'd certainly write to him. I'm sure others here at DU would, too.

In our America.

OffWithTheirHeads (1000+ posts)      Tue Jun-09-09 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
 
5. Ive been in jail. I've been broke and alone.

I'll take jail. What a ****ed up society we live in where jail is preferable to the street.

The salacious primitive:

Selatius (1000+ posts)      Tue Jun-09-09 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
 
6. This country sucks for the poor. This nation has never really looked out for its weak and helpless.

This nation crushes poor people. It says that you should pull yourself up by the bootstraps, but the rules put in place are opposed to that. It's as if the system was erected to keep people poor once they are pushed into poverty.

cabluedem (836 posts)      Tue Jun-09-09 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #12
 
14. He will be going to state prison, which will be better then a county jail.

Art_from_Ark (1000+ posts)      Tue Jun-09-09 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #14
 
22. In Arkansas, at least, the state pens are for the hard-core offenders

The county jails are for the people who commit misdemeanors and minor felonies. I would think that the state pen would be far worse, at least in Arkansas.

The too-depressed-to-work tom cat primitive:

ThomCat  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jun-09-09 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
 
25. I would like to write to him too if we could get an address for him.
 
I hope he goes to a minimum security prison. I hope he doesn't go to anyplace too mean or too harsh.

What a horrible situation to be in, to have to contemplate this at the end of his life.

Please, if you know how we can get an address for him, please PM me.

struggle4progress  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jun-09-09 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
 
11. Some homeless people pull this trick regularly. Cold? Hungry? On the street? Get busted for shoplifting. At least it's three hots and a cot

aquart  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jun-09-09 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #11
 
23. "Trick"?

Yeah. Real tricky to be that desperate.

struggle4progress  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jun-09-09 03:13 AM
Response to Reply #23
 
28. Semantic quibbles are pointless. The homeless population in my town is a diverse crowd: some are in dire straits through circumstances entirely beyond their control; some are quite crazy, but you wouldn't know it without really getting to know them, because in other ways they are quite sane; some are very intelligent but have somehow lost their bearings; others function at a borderline level, and communicating with them can be a real challenge; drugs account for some problems; bad relationships account for other problems; sometimes people acquire a habit of playing bullshit games and can't quite figure out how to stop; other people have been so badly abused at certain points in their lives that they have no hope; sometimes the abused recover -- and immediately select a new abuser for their lives

I'm sorry you didn't like the word trick, but perhaps you would have found any of the synonyms -- ploy or gambit or play or move or tactic or any of a thousand other words -- equally offensive. Life on the street poses countless problematic situations, and there is a large collection of survival strategies that people use -- and some people repeatedly use I'm going to jail as the escape. The reasons for this may differ from person-to-person: sometimes there may be real desperation, as you indicate; sometimes, the individual seems to have adopted an institutionalized mind-set and acts as if comfortable only in institutional settings; sometimes, it's hard to understand what is going on. Everybody's different

aquart  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jun-09-09 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #28
 
31. No, I did not like "trick." The "semantic" tone was condescending.

As was the explanation of how the homeless around you are so uniquely different from the homeless everywhere else.

struggle4progress  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jun-09-09 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #31
 
35. ??? I described some people I've met and spoken with repeatedly. Have a nice day.

ThomCat  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jun-09-09 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #11
 
26. Yeah, it's a great "trick."

Get a permanent criminal record in exchange for warmth and bad food.

I've been homeless. I didn't have to go that far, thankfully.

You know, for someone who's username implies that you think you're a progressive, your posts Often show a surprising lack of empathy. I hope it's just poor choices of words in your post. I hope you really have more empathy than it seems.

struggle4progress  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jun-09-09 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #26
 
30. It's a rabbit you can pull from a hat to keep from being cold and hungry. I don't believe there could be any excuse for society to regard jail as a substitute for adequate social services -- though your reaction might suggest you think I'm saying that. Nor do I mean to suggest it is the standard response, to be expected from some stereotypical class "homeless people" -- though, again, your reaction might suggest you think I'm saying that

"I didn't know what to do next so now I'm in jail" does seem to occur regularly enough that professionals see it repeatedly. Different people reach that point for different reasons. Sometimes the problem is that a person released from a long period of custodial care hasn't been adequately prepared for non-institutionalized life. Sometimes it's a person with treatable psychiatric problems who can't afford medication. The story in the OP probably isn't unique either: there are probably a number of people who find themselves in a similar position but end up on the street first -- of course, this speaks to the need for universal health care

The point of my post is that there may be more people in comparable situations. And I don't believe that my merely expressing empathy on an anonymous bulletin board would actually do that man a damn bit of good: something else is needed

Home run for the struggling primitive.

MercutioATC  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jun-09-09 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #26
 
36. I've worked in law enforcement. People do exactly that.

Where I worked (Ohio) they'd do something that would get them locked up in the county jail for 3-6 months...over the winter.

Any more than 6 months got sent to a real prison, so they'd always keep it under that. They got 3 meals a day and a warm bed when the weather got cold.

kentuck  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jun-09-09 01:57 AM
Response to Original message

13. What justice we have in this country... 

The law is the law. It is all so black and white. There is no room for empathy or compassion. There is even no room for intent. There are no extenuating circumstances. There is no temporary insanity. The law is the law and has absolutely nothing to do with justice...

Fumesucker  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jun-09-09 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #13

32. That depend entirely on your social class and position..

If you are poor and powerless then the law is the law.

If you are are rich and/or powerful then apparently there is very little to no law.

Just think telco immunity, retroactively making something legal that was illegal, for the rich and powerful.

And then of course there is the whole torture issue.

Mind_your_head  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jun-09-09 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
 
18. You know, the other thing that strikes me.....

Is that WE ARE ALL DYING. From the moment that we take our very first breath, our inescapable destiny is in death.....However many grains of sand are in our 'personal hourglass' it just starts slipping away from the moment of our birth.

SmileyRose  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jun-09-09 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
 
20. In the 7th grade - in 1960 something or other - they taught me we grow until we are early 20 - then we begin to die. Humans are supposed to have 40-50 years. Beyond that is thanks to medicine or mutant genetics.

reggie the dog (1000+ posts)      Tue Jun-09-09 06:20 AM
Response to Original message
 
34. what a shitty country

people have to go to jail to get health care. Why not give all people in the US the same care prisoners have?

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

cabluedem (836 posts)      Tue Jun-09-09 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #12
 
14. He will be going to state prison, which will be better then a county jail.

Spoken like an idiot who's never been to prison!

[The Village Idiot]

these people act as if being impoverished in any country but the US is an amusement park or something. They should try being homeless in Zimbabwe, Ethiopia or North Korea and see if its better than being homeless here.

[franksolich]

these people act as if being impoverished in any country but the US is an amusement park or something. They should try being homeless in Zimbabwe, Ethiopia or North Korea and see if its better than being homeless here.

Oh Hell, they should try being homeless in one of the socialist paradises of the workers and peasants with free medical care for all.

One doesn't need to go as far as Zimbabwe or Ethiopia or North Korea or Cuba or Iran.

[Carl]

I live in the middle of nowhere and there is a county run home for the aged poor and uninsured.
I would bet there is wherever this person lives too.
These people lie with their every breath.

[JohnnyReb]

Jail: One subject I have absolutely no personal knowledge of...unlike most DUmmeis.

[AllosaursRus]

This whole thing is BS! The homeless I run into want outa jail just as much as everybody else! This old guy is going to find out losing your freedom is far WORSE than dying of cancer! If you've never experienced hearing that door slam, you don't have any idea what you're talking about. It sounds like someone slaming the lid on your tomb!

There are countless programs this guy could look to for help. Jail is NOT an answer. All he had to do was contact his local hospice to get help. I sure hope the degenerates that prey on people like this will leave him alone, but the odds are slim to none!

[PatriotGame]

We found him guilty. The judge gave him the max - 5 years. It's long enough to make sure he's taken care of until he dies. I cried in my car for a full 10 minutes before I could even think about driving home.

This brings up a question:
When did you and your commie liberal ****wads that murder innocent babies EVER give the baby a fair trial and a chance at a life?
You liberals totally disgust me and the more of you that suffer and are consumed with hate, the better for me and my society.

[PatriotGame]

Beyond that is thanks to medicine or mutant genetics.

The VRWC will neither confirm nor deny the addition of "mutant genetics" to
-ANY- chem trail spray. Specifically those sprayed over blue states.

[Texacon]

If there weren't so many scammers scamming the system there may be money in the coffers for the truly needy.  CA may be about to find out what that really means.

KC

[Ree]

Bounce, bounce, bounce....