Author Topic: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!  (Read 7098 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline CurseItToHades

  • Probationary (Probie)
  • Posts: 4
  • Reputation: +0/-0
PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« on: June 03, 2009, 02:02:06 PM »
Hi everybody

I am currently working on a news piece about Prop 8 for my school's podcast, and I'm looking for opinions from both sides of the spectrum to quote as part of my interview segment.

If anyone here would be willing to answer a few questions regarding your views on Prop 8, I would be eternally grateful.


1. (Optional) Age, gender, ethnicity, political party, and/or religious affiliation
2. What effect does Prop 8 have on you, directly or indirectly?
3. If you believe that gay marriage violates the sanctity of traditional marriage, in what way?
4. Do you believe marriage to be an inalienable right, and if so, why for some and not for others?
5. What do you think about the commonly expressed opinion that marriage vs. civil union is a form of "separate but equal"?

-Make sure that your answers are logically thought out and arguable. Feel free to reference the Bible, but make sure that your argument would hold up in a secular debate.

-If your opinion is used in the report, I will ensure that it is with nothing but the utmost respect for any political and religious views expressed.

Thank you

Offline Eupher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24894
  • Reputation: +2835/-1828
  • U.S. Army, Retired
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2009, 02:26:52 PM »
Don't you think it might be a good idea to introduce yourself in the appropriate forum, and attempt to at least develop some semblance of rapport before you go launching into this kind of data-mining?

 :whatever:
Adams E2 Euphonium, built in 2017
Boosey & Co. Imperial Euphonium, built in 1941
Edwards B454 bass trombone, built 2012
Bach Stradivarius 42OG tenor trombone, built 1992
Kanstul 33-T BBb tuba, built 2011
Fender Precision Bass Guitar, built ?
Mouthpiece data provided on request.

Offline Lord Undies

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11388
  • Reputation: +639/-250
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2009, 03:15:18 PM »
Quote
-Make sure that your answers are logically thought out and arguable. Feel free to reference the Bible, but make sure that your argument would hold up in a secular debate.

Sorry.  One cannot argue with logic, and I know no other way to think.  When I speak it is strictly educational.  There is no "other side".

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23508
  • Reputation: +2460/-270
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2009, 03:34:00 PM »
Don't you think it might be a good idea to introduce yourself in the appropriate forum, and attempt to at least develop some semblance of rapport before you go launching into this kind of data-mining?

 :whatever:
He/she/it is obviously a liberal and an abject failure a dispassionate pollster, see Questions 4 & 5.

I punted this thread from the Political Ammunition forum because it isn't; its some brat's effort to lecture by poll but what the hell, I'm game. Let's play.

1. Age: Methuselah's my bitch, gender: yo momma knows, ethnicity: yo momma cried, political party: slightly to the right of Augusto Pinochet, and/or religious affiliation: Orthodox Fundamentalist Sinner, Second Synod

2. What effect does Prop 8 have on you, directly or indirectly?
Directly? None. My dance card for the weekend is still pretty full.

Indirectly? Well, I guess we have to put up with the likes of you.

Had it not passed the society my bastard offspring grow-up in would be changed and for none the better. It's as if someone demands the right to call a $20 bill a hundred dollar bill and then cops the excuse, "Why should that diminish the value of hundred dollar bills?" Either marriage means something or it doesn't. Loan me money then tell me I can re-write the promisary note as I see fit anytime I want to me what I want it to mean. Marriage is valuable but only if its terms are defined and enforced.

3. If you believe that gay marriage violates the sanctity of traditional marriage, in what way?
You mean like if I want to marry 4 wives or 9 year old girls? Oh wait, wrong tradition.

This has got to be the most retarded question because if gay marriage didn't violate the sanctity of traditional marriage we wouldn't be voting to decide if it should be made equal to traditional marriage. Perhaps you meant what impact would it have on traditonal marriage but you have yet to finish your classes on expository writing.

It's effect is precisely this: EVERY society has defined marriage because unregulated sexual activity is destructive be it single-parent households, STDs, conflicts over who is obligated to whom and to what degree etc etc etc. Don't believe me? Go get married for 15 years, have three kids with someone and let me borrow them for the weekend. I bet you'll come away thinking you've been betrayed, hurt and probably grab a lawyer to beg a judge somewhere to grant you damages for being a lousy lay.

Our culture has insitituted marriage to reflect its core values, primarily the nuclear family and in turn the nuclear shapes society. The shape, color--and odor--of a gay marriage is nothing like that of its hetero counter-parts. You can't put it on "Christianists" because they came to be in an era when faggotry and pederasty were common cultural practices (unless you wanna bitch about them joooooos! who gave us OT law). BTW trhat also implies faggotry and pederasty can be acculturated and we have chosen to resist those attempts.

4. Do you believe marriage to be an inalienable right, and if so, why for some and not for others?
Inalienable right? Thomas Jefferson broke from England to create a legal safe haven for homosexuality?

Who knew?

Shall we make a list of people/animals/things you cannot marry? It'd be pretty long. Obviously marriage is not an inalienable right as it is very restricted by age, relation, quantity (regardless of religious belief BTW); and there used to be pretty stiff penalties for violating the vows or seeking to dissolve those vows. Which brings us to the crux of the matter:

You're asking us to commit the instruments of state (read: force) to enforce contracts between people who themselves claim to be unable to control their own decision-making abilities (which is a load of hooey). If you want the powers of government to enforce your law you have to ask for the consent of the governed (that too is in the Declaration of Independence, if you bothered to get that far). To date we have said, "No".

Consider the fact that we allow government to enforce contract law. But we also tell the government that while people are generally free to enter into contracts certain types of contracts will not be enforced and are actually criminal.

5. What do you think about the commonly expressed opinion that marriage vs. civil union is a form of "separate but equal"?
Cute...dragging in images of racism...'cuz when liberal can't make a sound argument they have resort to this ad "homo"nem.

See point 4. Then grow-up.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Eupher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24894
  • Reputation: +2835/-1828
  • U.S. Army, Retired
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2009, 03:42:18 PM »
He/she/it is obviously a liberal and an abject failure a dispassionate pollster, see Questions 4 & 5.

I punted this thread from the Political Ammunition forum because it isn't; its some brat's effort to lecture by poll but what the hell, I'm game. Let's play.

1. Age: Methuselah's my bitch, gender: yo momma knows, ethnicity: yo momma cried, political party: slightly to the right of Augusto Pinochet, and/or religious affiliation: Orthodox Fundamentalist Sinner, Second Synod

2. What effect does Prop 8 have on you, directly or indirectly?
Directly? None. My dance card for the weekend is still pretty full.

Indirectly? Well, I guess we have to put up with the likes of you.

Had it not passed the society my bastard offspring grow-up in would be changed and for none the better. It's as if someone demands the right to call a $20 bill a hundred dollar bill and then cops the excuse, "Why should that diminish the value of hundred dollar bills?" Either marriage means something or it doesn't. Loan me money then tell me I can re-write the promisary note as I see fit anytime I want to me what I want it to mean. Marriage is valuable but only if its terms are defined and enforced.

3. If you believe that gay marriage violates the sanctity of traditional marriage, in what way?
You mean like if I want to marry 4 wives or 9 year old girls? Oh wait, wrong tradition.

This has got to be the most retarded question because if gay marriage didn't violate the sanctity of traditional marriage we wouldn't be voting to decide if it should be made equal to traditional marriage. Perhaps you meant what impact would it have on traditonal marriage but you have yet to finish your classes on expository writing.

It's effect is precisely this: EVERY society has defined marriage because unregulated sexual activity is destructive be it single-parent households, STDs, conflicts over who is obligated to whom and to what degree etc etc etc. Don't believe me? Go get married for 15 years, have three kids with someone and let me borrow them for the weekend. I bet you'll come away thinking you've been betrayed, hurt and probably grab a lawyer to beg a judge somewhere to grant you damages for being a lousy lay.

Our culture has insitituted marriage to reflect its core values, primarily the nuclear family and in turn the nuclear shapes society. The shape, color--and odor--of a gay marriage is nothing like that of its hetero counter-parts. You can't put it on "Christianists" because they came to be in an era when faggotry and pederasty were common cultural practices (unless you wanna bitch about them joooooos! who gave us OT law). BTW trhat also implies faggotry and pederasty can be acculturated and we have chosen to resist those attempts.

4. Do you believe marriage to be an inalienable right, and if so, why for some and not for others?
Inalienable right? Thomas Jefferson broke from England to create a legal safe haven for homosexuality?

Who knew?

Shall we make a list of people/animals/things you cannot marry? It'd be pretty long. Obviously marriage is not an inalienable right as it is very restricted by age, relation, quantity (regardless of religious belief BTW); and there used to be pretty stiff penalties for violating the vows or seeking to dissolve those vows. Which brings us to the crux of the matter:

You're asking us to commit the instruments of state (read: force) to enforce contracts between people who themselves claim to be unable to control their own decision-making abilities (which is a load of hooey). If you want the powers of government to enforce your law you have to ask for the consent of the governed (that too is in the Declaration of Independence, if you bothered to get that far). To date we have said, "No".

Consider the fact that we allow government to enforce contract law. But we also tell the government that while people are generally free to enter into contracts certain types of contracts will not be enforced and are actually criminal.

5. What do you think about the commonly expressed opinion that marriage vs. civil union is a form of "separate but equal"?
Cute...dragging in images of racism...'cuz when liberal can't make a sound argument they have resort to this ad "homo"nem.

See point 4. Then grow-up.

 :rotf: Damn, Snugs. I wanted to see the little ****stick squirm, and you CHASED HIM AWAY!

 :lmao:
Adams E2 Euphonium, built in 2017
Boosey & Co. Imperial Euphonium, built in 1941
Edwards B454 bass trombone, built 2012
Bach Stradivarius 42OG tenor trombone, built 1992
Kanstul 33-T BBb tuba, built 2011
Fender Precision Bass Guitar, built ?
Mouthpiece data provided on request.

Offline Lord Undies

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11388
  • Reputation: +639/-250
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2009, 03:49:17 PM »
And I thank our SnuggleBunny.  I didn't have the energy. 

Offline Lord Undies

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11388
  • Reputation: +639/-250
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2009, 03:51:51 PM »
One more thing:  Get back to me when a homosexual couple doesn't require a third party in order to conceive.

Offline NHSparky

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24431
  • Reputation: +1280/-617
  • Where are you going? I was gonna make espresso!
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2009, 04:23:52 PM »
One more thing:  Get back to me when a homosexual couple doesn't require a third party in order to conceive.

Or a turkey baster.  Friggin NH is going to shit and there's nothing we can do to stop it.
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.”  -Henry Ford

Offline NHSparky

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24431
  • Reputation: +1280/-617
  • Where are you going? I was gonna make espresso!
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2009, 04:24:48 PM »
1. (Optional) Age, gender, ethnicity, political party, and/or religious affiliation
2. What effect does Prop 8 have on you, directly or indirectly?
3. If you believe that gay marriage violates the sanctity of traditional marriage, in what way?
4. Do you believe marriage to be an inalienable right, and if so, why for some and not for others?
5. What do you think about the commonly expressed opinion that marriage vs. civil union is a form of "separate but equal"?

You first.
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.”  -Henry Ford

Offline Wineslob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14480
  • Reputation: +816/-193
  • Sucking the life out of Liberty
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2009, 05:27:03 PM »
Man, I wish we had the BS button back. 

MrSB, I wish we had the H5 back.
“The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.”

        -- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 55 BC (106-43 BC)

The unobtainable is unknown at Zombo.com



"Practice random violence and senseless acts of brutality"

If you want a gender neutral bathroom, go pee in the forest.

Offline MrsSmith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5977
  • Reputation: +466/-54
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2009, 05:49:36 PM »
Marriage is the joining of one man and one woman for the purpose of becoming one flesh, creating a family, and raising the children born of their union.

Activists can use the court system to force the entire country to use the term "marriage" when referring to the sexual union of 2 people, but they can't make that union a real marriage...unless humans eventually "evolve" to the point that most same-sex couples can conceive children with no intervention from any medical doctor, exactly the way most male-female couples can today.

Oh, and all citizens of the US have exactly the same right to marry.  Gay people have lost no civil rights whatsoever.  They are completely free to live, work, and vote as they choose.  What they are demanding is the right to change the foundation of society in order to make themselves feel more normal.  This is NOT a civil right.



That reminds me of the story about old Uncle Bob.  He had a real nice donkey, and he used to ride that donkey everywhere.  That donkey had 4 legs and a long neck and a tail similar to a horse.  Uncle Bob thought that donkey was as smart as a horse, as strong as a horse, and could do anything a horse could do...so he decided that everyone had to call that donkey a horse.  Of course, this didn't go over to well with his neighbors, so Uncle Bob got mad and began to complain to the media and write Letters to the Editor.  Eventually, he ended up with several organizations agitating for the rights of donkeys, and got a big lawyer to take his case for no fee, and he sued to force everyone to call his donkey a horse.

It was a long battle, with few wins and many losses, but eventually the Supreme Court decided that a donkey was close enough to a horse to deserve the name and, despite the fact that they aren't supposed to write law, they created the law making donkeys into horses.

Uncle Bob was one happy guy when he left the court house that last day.  He proudly strutted out to his "horse" and climbed on for the ride home, but, don't you know, when he looked down, he was still sitting on a jackass.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 06:12:00 PM by MrsSmith »
.
.


Antifa - the only fascists in America today.

Offline DixieBelle

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12143
  • Reputation: +512/-49
  • Still looking for my pony.....
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2009, 07:59:23 PM »
^Heh. I like that Mrs. Smith.
I can see November 2 from my house!!!

Spread my work ethic, not my wealth.

Forget change, bring back common sense.
-------------------------------------------------

No, my friends, there’s only one really progressive idea. And that is the idea of legally limiting the power of the government. That one genuinely liberal, genuinely progressive idea — the Why in 1776, the How in 1787 — is what needs to be conserved. We need to conserve that fundamentally liberal idea. That is why we are conservatives. --Bill Whittle

Offline Chris

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1476
  • Reputation: +522/-16
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2009, 09:34:40 PM »
I like voting. 

I am between 25 and 40. :p
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

Offline CurseItToHades

  • Probationary (Probie)
  • Posts: 4
  • Reputation: +0/-0
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2009, 09:58:33 PM »
He/she/it is obviously a liberal and an abject failure a dispassionate pollster, see Questions 4 & 5.

I punted this thread from the Political Ammunition forum because it isn't; its some brat's effort to lecture by poll but what the hell, I'm game. Let's play.

1. Age: Methuselah's my bitch, gender: yo momma knows, ethnicity: yo momma cried, political party: slightly to the right of Augusto Pinochet, and/or religious affiliation: Orthodox Fundamentalist Sinner, Second Synod

2. What effect does Prop 8 have on you, directly or indirectly?
Directly? None. My dance card for the weekend is still pretty full.

Indirectly? Well, I guess we have to put up with the likes of you.

Had it not passed the society my bastard offspring grow-up in would be changed and for none the better. It's as if someone demands the right to call a $20 bill a hundred dollar bill and then cops the excuse, "Why should that diminish the value of hundred dollar bills?" Either marriage means something or it doesn't. Loan me money then tell me I can re-write the promisary note as I see fit anytime I want to me what I want it to mean. Marriage is valuable but only if its terms are defined and enforced.

3. If you believe that gay marriage violates the sanctity of traditional marriage, in what way?
You mean like if I want to marry 4 wives or 9 year old girls? Oh wait, wrong tradition.

This has got to be the most retarded question because if gay marriage didn't violate the sanctity of traditional marriage we wouldn't be voting to decide if it should be made equal to traditional marriage. Perhaps you meant what impact would it have on traditonal marriage but you have yet to finish your classes on expository writing.

It's effect is precisely this: EVERY society has defined marriage because unregulated sexual activity is destructive be it single-parent households, STDs, conflicts over who is obligated to whom and to what degree etc etc etc. Don't believe me? Go get married for 15 years, have three kids with someone and let me borrow them for the weekend. I bet you'll come away thinking you've been betrayed, hurt and probably grab a lawyer to beg a judge somewhere to grant you damages for being a lousy lay.

Our culture has insitituted marriage to reflect its core values, primarily the nuclear family and in turn the nuclear shapes society. The shape, color--and odor--of a gay marriage is nothing like that of its hetero counter-parts. You can't put it on "Christianists" because they came to be in an era when faggotry and pederasty were common cultural practices (unless you wanna bitch about them joooooos! who gave us OT law). BTW trhat also implies faggotry and pederasty can be acculturated and we have chosen to resist those attempts.

4. Do you believe marriage to be an inalienable right, and if so, why for some and not for others?
Inalienable right? Thomas Jefferson broke from England to create a legal safe haven for homosexuality?

Who knew?

Shall we make a list of people/animals/things you cannot marry? It'd be pretty long. Obviously marriage is not an inalienable right as it is very restricted by age, relation, quantity (regardless of religious belief BTW); and there used to be pretty stiff penalties for violating the vows or seeking to dissolve those vows. Which brings us to the crux of the matter:

You're asking us to commit the instruments of state (read: force) to enforce contracts between people who themselves claim to be unable to control their own decision-making abilities (which is a load of hooey). If you want the powers of government to enforce your law you have to ask for the consent of the governed (that too is in the Declaration of Independence, if you bothered to get that far). To date we have said, "No".

Consider the fact that we allow government to enforce contract law. But we also tell the government that while people are generally free to enter into contracts certain types of contracts will not be enforced and are actually criminal.

5. What do you think about the commonly expressed opinion that marriage vs. civil union is a form of "separate but equal"?
Cute...dragging in images of racism...'cuz when liberal can't make a sound argument they have resort to this ad "homo"nem.

See point 4. Then grow-up.

These questions were pieced together from liberal counterarguments in order to get answers more detailed than "yes" and "no", not from my own views, just as the questions I asked to liberals were formed with conservative arguments. It is not my business nor is it in my interest to lecture you. In fact, the reason I took these questions to an exclusively conservative forum is because all I got on general political forums was harassment from liberals. I'm sorry if you got the wrong impression from me. Thank you for your participation.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 10:13:11 PM by CurseItToHades »

Offline Lord Undies

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11388
  • Reputation: +639/-250
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2009, 10:24:07 PM »
These questions were pieced together from liberal counterarguments in order to get answers more detailed than "yes" and "no", not from my own views, just as the questions I asked to liberals were formed with conservative arguments. It is not my business nor is it in my interest to lecture you. Thank you for your participation.

What motivates your intense interest in this pointless subject?  I ask because anyone of any honest intellect knows there is no "debate".  It's all about the complete and vital dishonesty of modern liberals and the utterly transparent facade known as the radical homosexual agenda.

If your goal is to come to some sort of rational conclusion, well, it isn't going to happen.  It is impossible to recognize the lies, deceit, and purposeful misleading by the modern liberals and radical homosexuals as being of equal intellectual weight to the honest logic, facts, and reality used by normal people (conservatives).

Lies and deceit know no bounds or rules.  They are constantly changing, floating, reverting, and rearranging to meet the need of the moment in order to fool as may people as possible as long as possible.  It is practically impossible to pin them down.

On the other hand, logic, facts, and reality are set in stone.  They never change and you know right where to find them, that is, if your intent is to find them. 

Offline CurseItToHades

  • Probationary (Probie)
  • Posts: 4
  • Reputation: +0/-0
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2009, 10:32:23 PM »
What motivates your intense interest in this pointless subject?  I ask because anyone of any honest intellect knows there is no "debate".  It's all about the complete and vital dishonesty of modern liberals and the utterly transparent facade known as the radical homosexual agenda.

If your goal is to come to some sort of rational conclusion, well, it isn't going to happen.  It is impossible to recognize the lies, deceit, and purposeful misleading by the modern liberals and radical homosexuals as being of equal intellectual weight to the honest logic, facts, and reality used by normal people (conservatives).

Lies and deceit know no bounds or rules.  They are constantly changing, floating, reverting, and rearranging to meet the need of the moment in order to fool as may people as possible as long as possible.  It is practically impossible to pin them down.

On the other hand, logic, facts, and reality are set in stone.  They never change and you know right where to find them, that is, if your intent is to find them. 

My own goal is not to participate in any kind of debate or come to any conclusions. It is part of a project for my US History class in which I give a brief overview of the proposition as well as viewpoints from both sides of the issue. The goal is to make today's youth, conservative and liberal, think more deeply about issues that at the moment they are currently not very knowledgeable about.

Offline Lord Undies

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11388
  • Reputation: +639/-250
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2009, 10:51:25 PM »
You appear to be a bright person.  I am sure you will do a fine job, as long as you understand that not all viewpoints are equally valid.  Honesty, facts, reality, and true history are the only things that count.

Offline AllosaursRus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11672
  • Reputation: +424/-293
  • Skip Tracing by Contract Only!
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2009, 11:54:55 PM »
My own goal is not to participate in any kind of debate or come to any conclusions. It is part of a project for my US History class in which I give a brief overview of the proposition as well as viewpoints from both sides of the issue. The goal is to make today's youth, conservative and liberal, think more deeply about issues that at the moment they are currently not very knowledgeable about.

Just what the hell does this have to do with a history class? Seems to me we have evolved away from the homo lifestyle since the days of the Romans. I see no need to bring it back. Like Snuggle said, "get back to me when same sex couples can get pregnant without artificial means."

If this is what is passing for a lesson in history, no wonder the children of liberals can't find their own state on a map! Are they teaching you the proper way to put rubbers on cucumbers, too?
I'm the guy your mother warned you about!
 

Offline Celtic Rose

  • All American Girl
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4157
  • Reputation: +311/-32
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2009, 11:59:06 PM »
Hi everybody

I am currently working on a news piece about Prop 8 for my school's podcast, and I'm looking for opinions from both sides of the spectrum to quote as part of my interview segment.

If anyone here would be willing to answer a few questions regarding your views on Prop 8, I would be eternally grateful.


1. (Optional) Age, gender, ethnicity, political party, and/or religious affiliation
2. What effect does Prop 8 have on you, directly or indirectly?
3. If you believe that gay marriage violates the sanctity of traditional marriage, in what way?
4. Do you believe marriage to be an inalienable right, and if so, why for some and not for others?
5. What do you think about the commonly expressed opinion that marriage vs. civil union is a form of "separate but equal"?

-Make sure that your answers are logically thought out and arguable. Feel free to reference the Bible, but make sure that your argument would hold up in a secular debate.

-If your opinion is used in the report, I will ensure that it is with nothing but the utmost respect for any political and religious views expressed.

Thank you

Okay Mr. Hades (or I suppose it could be Miss Hades), I'm going to assume that you are being honest about this being for a history project.  I wish you the best of luck, but I hope you are polling multiple sites because you most likely will not get enough responses here to draw any real conclusions, especially since I think this site tends to be skewed a bit towards the 40's-ish male.

1.  24, Female, Caucasian, Republican, Orthodox Christian

2. I live in California, so the amendment was passed for my state's constitution.  

My greatest concern regarding the legalization of Homosexual marriage is the effect that it could very potentially have on A) churches and B) Personal choices reflecting views on homosexuality.

While opponents to Proposition 8 insist that no church would be forced to perform homosexual weddings, I believe that lawsuits would arise fairly quickly claiming discrimination, thus jeopardizing the tax exempt status of churches.  As an example, I present Bob Jones University v. United States, 461 U.S. 574, where Bob Jones University lost their tax exempt status because they forbade interracial dating.  In this case, the Supreme Court stated that tax-exempt status cannot be maintained when practices run against "established public policy."  If homosexual marriage were legalized, it could easily be argued that homosexual marriage is established public policy.  While I see a huge difference between interracial marriage and homosexual marriage, homosexual activists have continually called homosexual marriage a civil rights issue, so they obviously do not see any difference between the two.   There has also been a law suit in New Jersey where a church lost part of its tax exempt status for refusing to rent a piece of its property for use during a homosexual wedding.  There have been a variety of law suits, ranging from photography to artificial insemination, where courts have ruled that individuals do not have the right to refuse service because they disagree with homosexuality, and the momentum for these lawsuits would only increase if homosexual marriage were legalized.

There was also a case, fairly recently, where a homosexual couple sued a Catholic adoption service because they refused to allow them to adopt a child, and the courts ruled in the couple's favor.  The adoption service shut down because they refused to compromise their religious beliefs.  

In addition in the legal ramification, there are education concerns.  California already struggles with how to address homosexuality during sex education classes.  I do not have children yet, but I believe that moral issues, such as views on homosexual behavior, are best taught by parents, not by teachers.  If homosexual marriage were legalized, then homosexual behavior would be legitimized by the state, and I would have little recourse, short of pulling my child from class and/or homeschooling, if I were to object to a teacher discussing homosexuality in the classroom. If you live in California, you probably read about the kindergarten classroom that went to their teacher's lesbian wedding.  That shows that if it homosexuality were legitimized, then children exposure to it in the classroom would almost certainly increase over time.  

3.  I believe the marriage is primarily a religious institution.  The government role in marriage is to help support marriage while marriage supports society.  Marriage provides a steady support for children.  Studies have consistently shown that children from families with both a mother and a father tend to do better than single parent families, and well adjusted children are of course better for society in general.  Mind you, I realize that there are children from single parent families who excel, and that some situations where both parents are present are far from ideal.  I'm talking in generalities, and I certainly don't mean to denigrate single parent families in any way; I'm just pointing out statistics.

Homosexual couples cannot biologically reproduce, therefore they fail to fulfill the most basic traditional goal of marriage. While they can become parents in other ways, studies show that both the father and the mother play important roles in a child's development, so ideally children should have both a mother and father.

4. Absolutely not.  The government has a variety or rules regarding who can be married to whom.  They have already instituted age requirements, which by the way do not always correspond to the age of consent in particular states, they have decided how distantly related one must be to be married, and they have decided how many spouses one may have, and the gender of one's spouse.  An inalienable right is a right that the government may not restrict.  For example, the government may not place any restrictions on a person's faith, excepting where another is being actively harmed (human sacrifice, child abuse, etc.).  The government has placed restriction of marriage well beyond the point of another's harm, and therefore it has obviously never been an inalienable right.  

5.  I think it is hogwash.  Marriage has been defined as being between a man a woman for a very, very long time.  Now, homosexual activist wish to redefine what marriage is, and when people object, they pull out "separate but equal". Quite simply, civil unions grant the same rights to homosexual couples.  The key point is what is the strength of the word "marriage".  A homosexual couple could go to a number of religious institutions and have a religious wedding, but what they want is for society to validate their behavior.  However, a majority of Californians have spoken out and said that no, we don't believe that homosexuals have the right to redefine the word marriage, or to force us to accept their behavior.  

A key point in the "separate but equal" court ruling (Brown vs. Board of Education) was that the schools were not equal, and that the substandard conditions in the schools for black students denied them educational opportunities.  Civil Unions do not deprive homosexual couples anything except the word marriage, and the forced acceptance of their behavior.  

Offline CurseItToHades

  • Probationary (Probie)
  • Posts: 4
  • Reputation: +0/-0
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2009, 12:08:14 AM »
Thank you so much, Celtic Rose! You have very good arguments.
I will be going now, since I don't seem to be very well-received here.
Thanks again.

Offline AllosaursRus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11672
  • Reputation: +424/-293
  • Skip Tracing by Contract Only!
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2009, 12:26:13 AM »
Thank you so much, Celtic Rose! You have very good arguments.
I will be going now, since I don't seem to be very well-received here.
Thanks again.

You got it! Maybe you're not as DUmb as a sack of hammers!
I'm the guy your mother warned you about!
 

Offline The Village Idiot

  • Banned
  • Probationary (Probie)
  • Posts: 54
  • Reputation: +96/-15
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2009, 12:44:15 AM »

dang. you broke a lot of paddles on that rump

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23508
  • Reputation: +2460/-270
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2009, 05:35:59 AM »
These questions were pieced together from liberal counterarguments in order to get answers more detailed than "yes" and "no", not from my own views, just as the questions I asked to liberals were formed with conservative arguments. It is not my business nor is it in my interest to lecture you. In fact, the reason I took these questions to an exclusively conservative forum is because all I got on general political forums was harassment from liberals. I'm sorry if you got the wrong impression from me. Thank you for your participation.
I'l take you at your word.

Please extend my comments to those who did orginate the questions...in the spirit in which they were intended...I'll even take the blame. Better yet, invite the summzabijjezz here.  :evillaugh:
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Eupher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24894
  • Reputation: +2835/-1828
  • U.S. Army, Retired
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2009, 08:55:59 AM »
Excellent arguments, Celtic Rose. Well done.  :II:
Adams E2 Euphonium, built in 2017
Boosey & Co. Imperial Euphonium, built in 1941
Edwards B454 bass trombone, built 2012
Bach Stradivarius 42OG tenor trombone, built 1992
Kanstul 33-T BBb tuba, built 2011
Fender Precision Bass Guitar, built ?
Mouthpiece data provided on request.

Offline Lord Undies

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11388
  • Reputation: +639/-250
Re: PROP 8: Conservatives Speak Up!
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2009, 09:49:36 AM »
Excellent arguments, Celtic Rose. Well done.  :II:

Yes indeed, C-Rose.  You helped prove my point too.  Great job.