Holocaust denial.

[Lanie]

So I sort have been speaking to a person who appears to think that only a million Jews died in the holocaust. This person lives in the Middle East.  I think it's harder for people in the Middle East to know and understand the truth because they're being taught from day one that the holocaust was made up in order to justify the creation of a Jewish state. That's not an excuse of course. I don't think they all hate Jews. I think they just don't know the truth. I wonder if they wouldn't change their mind if somebody with patience spoke to them every so often. I'm also concerned about the fact that some "Revisionists" think it's appropriate to bring their junk to college campuses as if it has legitimacy. Some have argued for their right to "freedom of speech." Okay, whatever. But some also argue that their pov should be heard as if it could actually be legitimate.

There's a time when I didn't take holocaust denial as a serious subject or a real threat, but now I think it might be. Therefore, I'm sort of wondering if discussing the issue with people might actually be a good idea. They're talking, and some idiots are listening.

So, there's my poll. I'm sort of hoping people can put politics aside for the issue.

[Lord Undies]

First out of the gate:  There are no "holocaust deniers" in the USA.  There are only Liars for Political Reasons.  Everyone knows the truth.  There is too much photographic records and personal histories to be able to actually fool yourself into believing the holocaust was something else other than what it was.  The only reason to lie about the holocaust is to blur history and mislead as many people as possible and get them to believe a lie in order to further a worldview (a famous liberal trait). 

BTW, the Jewish holocaust is beginning to pale in comparison to the Negro holocaust going on in abortion mills right here in this country.  I'm sure the original goal is the same.   

[Chris_]

BTW, the Jewish holocaust is beginning to pale in comparison to the Negro holocaust going on in abortion mills right here in this country.  I'm sure the original goal is the same.   

Stated goal of the American Progressive Eugenicist:  "to rid the country of the stupid, the weak, of the burdens on society".

Stated goal of the National Socialist German Worker's Party: "to rid the world of 'life unworthy of life'".

Looks damned nead identical to me, Mr. Lord of the Bloomers, sir.

[Lanie]

First out of the gate:  There are no "holocaust deniers" in the USA.  There are only Liars for Political Reasons.  Everyone knows the truth.  There is too much photographic records and personal histories to be able to actually fool yourself into believing the holocaust was something else other than what it was.  The only reason to lie about the holocaust is to blur history and mislead as many people as possible and get them to believe a lie in order to further a worldview (a famous liberal trait). 

BTW, the Jewish holocaust is beginning to pale in comparison to the Negro holocaust going on in abortion mills right here in this country.  I'm sure the original goal is the same.   

I agree about Americans having no excuse. When I was in 5th Grade, just seeing the pictures was enough for me. I'm sort of wondering about people though. It has amazed me how gullible the public is at times. One major thing I learned in college the first time I was there was actually how stupid college students could be. I shouldn't put it that way, but it's true. I am talking about people who would park in a parking deck and then ask me (who worked for the parking services at the time) what they do with their ticket.

We have threads off and on about abortion. Any chance this thread can be about the Jewish/WWII holocaust? Pretty please?

[AllosaursRus]

I'm surprised Lanie would be the one to bring this up. Perhaps there is still hope.

[AllosaursRus]

I agree about Americans having no excuse. When I was in 5th Grade, just seeing the pictures was enough for me. I'm sort of wondering about people though. It has amazed me how gullible the public is at times. One major thing I learned in college the first time I was there was actually how stupid college students could be. I shouldn't put it that way, but it's true. I am talking about people who would park in a parking deck and then ask me (who worked for the parking services at the time) what they do with their ticket.

We have threads off and on about abortion. Any chance this thread can be about the Jewish/WWII holocaust? Pretty please?

So how is it you have broken with your bretheren on this? Most of them are truly against the state of Israel. You have to be an exception to the rule.

Why not post this at the DUmp and let us see how far it goes? If you really want to get into a discussion, I would think the DUmpster would get you a helluva response!

[Lord Undies]

We have threads off and on about abortion. Any chance this thread can be about the Jewish/WWII holocaust? Pretty please?

Your wish is my bedpan, your Lady.  

(hey, what happened to you in the other thread?  I feel ignored.)

[Lanie]

Your wish is my bedpan, your Lady.  

(hey, what happened to you in the other thread?  I feel ignored.)

You're gonna crap on my wish? lol. I got back to you. I took a bath in the hopes of it helping my bronchitis. Didn't do crap (whine).

[Lord Undies]

You're gonna crap on my wish? lol. I got back to you. I took a bath in the hopes of it helping my bronchitis. Didn't do crap (whine).

The best thing for bronchitis is to get naked, dip yourself in a cold tub, then go stand soaking wet in front of a blasting window unit air conditioner.  Your condition will change in no time.

[mamacags]

snort

[Mr Mannn]

Debate. No. Holocaust deniers and 9-11 toofers needs to be shut out in the cold and left to shiver and gnash their teeth while educated people can enjoy a fine meal.
Seriously what is there to debate? Deniers are just stupid dogs baking at a tree.
Truth has already spoken. Yes, the holocaust, took place. Educated people know that. Ignorant deniers cannot be reasoned with.

Bottom line. Deniers know the truth. They deny out of bigotry, and the knowledge that Holocaust denial hurts people.
There never was a debate.  Let us mock them like they deserve.

[JohnnyReb]

The best thing for bronchitis is to get naked, dip yourself in a cold tub, then go stand soaking wet in front of a blasting window unit air conditioner.  Your condition will change in no time.

Also works for horny 13 year old boys......if they're not "real horny".

[DumbAss Tanker]

It's probably a waste of breath to try to argue the person into reason, but if you want to give it a shot, ask them why 1 million is not a big deal but 6 million is.  Did anyone else intern a million ethnic minority noncombatants and then kill them?  Nope.  Well, the Japanese no doubt killed a few million Chinese civilians, but not as a systematic genocide, just out of general vileness.

[Lanie]

Debate. No. Holocaust deniers and 9-11 toofers needs to be shut out in the cold and left to shiver and gnash their teeth while educated people can enjoy a fine meal.
Seriously what is there to debate? Deniers are just stupid dogs baking at a tree.
Truth has already spoken. Yes, the holocaust, took place. Educated people know that. Ignorant deniers cannot be reasoned with.

Bottom line. Deniers know the truth. They deny out of bigotry, and the knowledge that Holocaust denial hurts people.
There never was a debate.  Let us mock them like they deserve.

What about deniers from the Middle East? People who have been taught from day one that it did not happen? Do they know?

Maybe somebody who has been out there might know something they can tell me?

[Splashdown]

It's probably a waste of breath to try to argue the person into reason, but if you want to give it a shot, ask them why 1 million is not a big deal but 6 million is.  Did anyone else intern a million ethnic minority noncombatants and then kill them?  Nope.  Well, the Japanese no doubt killed a few million Chinese civilians, but not as a systematic genocide, just out of general vileness.

Heh. I was thinking the same thing. "Only" a million??????

[Mr Mannn]

What about deniers from the Middle East? People who have been taught from day one that it did not happen? Do they know?

Maybe somebody who has been out there might know something they can tell me?

They know. They deny because they think it makes Israelis mad. The muslims believe in the holocaust and want to participate in a 2nd holocaust.

You see the same thing with 9-11. Muslims will blame the Jews and then they celebrate 9-11 like a holiday.
Its less hypocrisy and more hatred. Holocaust denial will never be defined by debate or facts, its defined by hatred.

In islam as in the west, only the most illiterate  actually believe the denial. The rest know the truth, but cling to bigotry.
There is no argument that can reach a bigot. A baseball bat is needed to beat some sense into him.

Thats why no one here wants to open this debate. It will open the floodgates of filth and hatred into a wonderful board.
And we don't need that.

[Ptarmigan]

Frankly, why do we bother with this? Holocaust deniers and 9/11 Truthers are the same thing. They are all crackpots of the lowest denominator. What is the difference? None!

Let's not forget that the Jews were not the only victims of the Holocaust. The Holocaust killed 8 to 10 million Slavs, 2 millions Gypsies, and untold numbers of disabled and Christians. As for 9/11, people of all nationalities and religion were killed on that tragic day.

[Lanie]

Just wanted to thank everybody here for their input. Thought the fact that three people voted for the third option was funny. 

[MrsSmith]

Frankly, why do we bother with this? Holocaust deniers and 9/11 Truthers are the same thing. They are all crackpots of the lowest denominator. What is the difference? None!

Let's not forget that the Jews were not the only victims of the Holocaust. The Holocaust killed 8 to 10 million Slavs, 2 millions Gypsies, and untold numbers of disabled and Christians. As for 9/11, people of all nationalities and religion were killed on that tragic day.

Add to that number any that were caught running the "underground railroad," getting Jews and others out.  Like my uncle...

[AllosaursRus]

Just wanted to thank everybody here for their input. Thought the fact that three people voted for the third option was funny. 

I dunno, I think it speaks volumes!

[JohnnyReb]

Add to that number any that were caught running the "underground railroad," getting Jews and others out.  Like my uncle...

Can't read the tombstone....could you post what it says?

....and my only complaint against the Jews, or maybe better described as a pet peeve, is that when they speak of the 6 million Jews killed, could they at least mention the other 5+or so million other nonages. And it ain't just the Jews that do that, seems all of the liberal politicians do it and sometimes the conservative ones do to.

[Lanie]

Can't read the tombstone....could you post what it says?

....and my only complaint against the Jews, or maybe better described as a pet peeve, is that when they speak of the 6 million Jews killed, could they at least mention the other 5+or so million other nonages. And it ain't just the Jews that do that, seems all of the liberal politicians do it and sometimes the conservative ones do to.

I think society in general does that.

[MrsSmith]

Can't read the tombstone....could you post what it says?

....and my only complaint against the Jews, or maybe better described as a pet peeve, is that when they speak of the 6 million Jews killed, could they at least mention the other 5+or so million other nonages. And it ain't just the Jews that do that, seems all of the liberal politicians do it and sometimes the conservative ones do to.

It's in German, which I don't speak, but I did have a friend translate it once.  It says something to the effect that Hans Wolfel was strong in his faith, spoke out against Hitler, and was assassinated for doing so.  My mother told me many times of her father and his brother getting caught transporting people, and how they were sent to the concentration camp.  She told me which camp, but I don't recall the name.  Her father was rescued by American troops, but Hans was already dead.

[thundley4]

It's in German, which I don't speak, but I did have a friend translate it once.  It says something to the effect that Hans Wolfel was strong in his faith, spoke out against Hitler, and was assassinated for doing so.  My mother told me many times of her father and his brother getting caught transporting people, and how they were sent to the concentration camp.  She told me which camp, but I don't recall the name.  Her father was rescued by American troops, but Hans was already dead.

I wonder if this is the same person, it seem like it.  Google doesn't translate too well, but you can get the gist of it.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.willy-aron-gesellschaft.de/kat14.php?c=b20080422203107

[Duke Nukum]

The thing about trying to persuade people is most of the time it doesn't come from the right place and both sides just dig in and resist the other point of view.  We get really attached to our POV, why, I remember back in grade school, I think in the second grade we had a text book that erroneously said Abraham Lincoln was Democrat, I really admired Abraham Lincoln so I started to identify with being a Democrat to whatever extent a 7 or 8 year old could.

The next year in the next grade we had a text book that rightly identified Lincoln as the first Republican president and I was so angry about this I remember complaining to my mom, although I don't remember exactly how I voiced my complaint but by then I felt I was a Democrat and this new information just made me angry, how could they say Lincoln was a Republican?  How could there be such a huge difference between the 2nd and 3rd grade?

By that time it didn't even matter what the factual information was because I had taken a position and I felt obliged to defend it.  It was somebody else's fault.

But eventually I grew up and it wasn't by being persuaded by somebody telling me I was wrong, it had to do more with me questioning my assumptions and paying more attention to what actually appeared to be going on in the world.

So, if you aren't really good at getting people to ask introspective questions of what they assume you can just state the things that are indisputably factual and leave it at that.  

The reason you noted that some college students seemed dumb is because they aren't engaged in learning but in indoctrination.  People who are raised like your friend are indoctrinated and no matter how intelligent they are, because they haven't questioned their assumptions and actually owned some knowledge  they are susceptible to every sort of con artist.  South Park nailed that type of person as a college-know-it-all hippie.