ENVIRONMENTALISM: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales

[thundley4]

President Barack Obama and others are calling for a boom in electric vehicle production, which seems simple enough on the surface: Build the cars and plug them in.If only it were that easy.

When a Chevrolet Volt is plugged into a 240-volt outlet, it will use about 3.3 kilowatts of power, or about the same amount of power as a dishwasher or air conditioner.

Most people are already familiar with what can happen when thousands of air conditioners are plugged in and running at the same time during the summer: brownouts.

"The last thing we would want is for everyone to come home ... and plug them in at 5 or 6 o'clock on a hot, muggy summer afternoon ... when we are at our peak," DTE Energy Chairman Anthony Earley Jr. told the Free Press in an interview last week.

 Link

Even at the current rate of electricity many people could not afford the added cost of charging an electric car. Just imagine the cost when the Dems push their "cap and trade" through. The electrical grid can barely handle the load now in most parts of the country, and in the large metropolitan areas, forget it.

[jinxmchue]

There's no damn way they are going to get me to drive an electric vehicle in a Minnesota winter.

[Chris]

One of the arguments for plug-in hybrids is their ability to store power for non-peak use and act as a kind of distributed storage to reduce demand on the power grid.  Never mind that the plug-in add-ons to the Prius will void the warranty and the only other plug-in hybrids are the Tesla and the Volt, which is not even on the market. 

http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/23/prius-its-not-just-a-car-its-an-emergency-generator/

[Chris]

You can convert a light truck or sedan to an electric vehicle for around $6000 with some basic electrical knowledge.  A manual S-10, Ford Ranger, or Mazda B-series truck with a blown motor are a dime a dozen.  I've posted this before, but it looks like it might be a fun project to do. 

http://greenflightev.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2006-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2007-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=7

If I did this, I would have a run a 30-foot extension cord out my front door to plug my car in.  Definitely not user-friendly.

[Lacarnut]

Using one energy source to make another is an idiotic solution to our energy problem. Electric vehicles, Ethanol, Wind, Solar do not have the infrastructure and all are more expensive in comparison to oil and natural gas. However, have no fear, Obama and the democraps are going to jack up the price of gasoline to EU price levels. Obama can then blame the oil companies and the dummies will fall for it. Federal taxes will fund the greenie programs.

[RobJohnson]

My question would be: Is it less expensive to run a vehicle on gas or electricity?

Do we trade high pump prices for high electric bills?

[Chris]

My question would be: Is it less expensive to run a vehicle on gas or electricity?

Do we trade high pump prices for high electric bills?

I guess it depents on the electrical rates in your area.  The TVA charges around 7 cents per watt/hour.

[thundley4]

I guess it depents on the electrical rates in your area.  The TVA charges around 7 cents per watt/hour.

That  should be kilowatthour, right? Does the TVA use mostly hydroelectric power?  They probably would not be allowed to build their dams today, with all the environuts protesting.

[Chris]

That  should be kilowatthour, right? Does the TVA use mostly hydroelectric power?  They probably would not be allowed to build their dams today, with all the environuts protesting.

It varies... I think they use mostly coal now.  Yeah, that was supposed to be kilowatt-hour... sorry.

[MrsSmith]

My question would be: Is it less expensive to run a vehicle on gas or electricity?

Do we trade high pump prices for high electric bills?

It's cheapest to run a car on petroleum gasoline, all bio-fuels are far more expensive to buy...and to make.  Even if it works out that electric cars take less money to charge than a gas tank to fill, they still cost a horrendous amount to build...especially the batteries (which take harmful metals and petroleum to build...and transport...and recycle.)  The greenies have definitely NOT thought this through.  (Except the ones, like Gore, that have bought into companies that will pay back handsomely on the government forced carbon trades)

Of course, for Gore, there is nothing about global warming he actually believes...he's just a salesman pushing his product.

[RightCoast]

It's cheapest to run a car on petroleum gasoline, all bio-fuels are far more expensive to buy...and to make.  Even if it works out that electric cars take less money to charge than a gas tank to fill, they still cost a horrendous amount to build...especially the batteries (which take harmful metals and petroleum to build...and transport...and recycle.)  The greenies have definitely NOT thought this through.  (Except the ones, like Gore, that have bought into companies that will pay back handsomely on the government forced carbon trades)

Of course, for Gore, there is nothing about global warming he actually believes...he's just a salesman pushing his product.

At no time in the life cycle of a liberal does "thought" come in to play.

[Chris]

It's cheapest to run a car on petroleum gasoline, all bio-fuels are far more expensive to buy...and to make.  Even if it works out that electric cars take less money to charge than a gas tank to fill, they still cost a horrendous amount to build...especially the batteries (which take harmful metals and petroleum to build...and transport...and recycle.)  The greenies have definitely NOT thought this through.

Have you seen a nickel mine from space?  Everything for miles around is dead.  Not to mention that extracting metal from ore is a nasty, toxic business.  There are hundreds of old mines across this country that will be leaking acids into the groundwater and soil for centuries because of the mining practices at the time.

[NHSparky]

I guess it depents on the electrical rates in your area.  The TVA charges around 7 cents per watt/hour.

Lucky bastard.  Do they give you one charge for generation (the actual electricity) and another for transmitting (wires) it to you?

Combine the two and I'm paying nearly 20 cents a KwH.

[Chris]

Lucky bastard.  Do they give you one charge for generation (the actual electricity) and another for transmitting (wires) it to you?

Combine the two and I'm paying nearly 20 cents a KwH.

Nope.  Turns out our rate is .09392/KwH... that's what I get for not paying attention (I thought it was around 7.5 or 8).  I'm paying something called a "customer charge" of $9 a month.

[NHSparky]

Nope.  Turns out our rate is .09392/KwH... that's what I get for not paying attention (I thought it was around 7.5 or 8).  I'm paying something called a "customer charge" of $9 a month.

Just pulled up my last bill from March.

398 KwH at .0992/KwH, "customer charge" of $9, and several delivery charges totalling 0.0533/KwH.

Basically, I'm paying over 15 cents a KwH, plus taxes and fees.  This.  Is.  BULLSHIT.  Now run a 2500 lb car 100 miles a day while charging it on electricity that costs that much and tell me people could afford that.

[Chris_]

You can convert a light truck or sedan to an electric vehicle for around $6000 with some basic electrical knowledge.  A manual S-10, Ford Ranger, or Mazda B-series truck with a blown motor are a dime a dozen.  I've posted this before, but it looks like it might be a fun project to do. 

http://greenflightev.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2006-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2007-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=7

If I did this, I would have a run a 30-foot extension cord out my front door to plug my car in.  Definitely not user-friendly.

Actually Ford built a number of these as prototypes that eventually found their way into the hands of the public, and a friend of mine has two of them (electric Ranger pickups).......in factory configuration, they have a range between charges of...........wait for it...........25 miles!

The electric car is just about as useful for general transportation as a golfcart..........

Regardless of how much the liberals desire it, you just can't rewrite the laws of physics......

doc

[Gratiot]

You can convert a light truck or sedan to an electric vehicle for around $6000 with some basic electrical knowledge.  A manual S-10, Ford Ranger, or Mazda B-series truck with a blown motor are a dime a dozen.  I've posted this before, but it looks like it might be a fun project to do.

It can be done for far less than that.  A friend of mine turned a Ranger into an Electric vehicle for less than $3k, including the vehicle.

I forget how far he's able to get on a charge, but it's enough for him to run most errands and use it as a daily vehicle. 

[Chris]

It can be done for far less than that.  A friend of mine turned a Ranger into an Electric vehicle for less than $3k, including the vehicle.

I forget how far he's able to get on a charge, but it's enough for him to run most errands and use it as a daily vehicle. 

I drive eight miles a day to work and back; an electric vehicle would more than suit my needs during the week.  I usually do a bit more driving on my days off.   I have my eye on a '76 Mercedes 230CE that might be a good candidate.

[RightCoast]

I drive eight miles a day to work and back; an electric vehicle would more than suit my needs during the week.  I usually do a bit more driving on my days off.   I have my eye on a '76 Mercedes 230CE that might be a good candidate.

I drive over 2300 miles a month for my job - electric not so good.

Oh and I LOVE it when idiot dems howl about taxing milage - like paying for the ****ing gas isn't tax enough.

[thundley4]

I really can not see how battery based electric vehicles can ever be viable until several issues are addressed. 

Coal generated electricity still provides much of our electricity, and it seems to me, that the more steps involved between the power source and the end use just means more losses. I think the only true hybrids will come only if there is a breakthrough in hydrogen fuel cell technology.  Then there has to be consideration of the batteries themselves. How much pollution is caused and how much energy is consumed in their production?

[Chris]

I really can not see how battery based electric vehicles can ever be viable until several issues are addressed. 

Coal generated electricity still provides much of our electricity, and it seems to me, that the more steps involved between the power source and the end use just means more losses. I think the only true hybrids will come only if there is a breakthrough in hydrogen fuel cell technology.  Then there has to be consideration of the batteries themselves. How much pollution is caused and how much energy is consumed in their production?

They're interesting in a weekend-project kind of way, but you're right.  The toxic chemicals and runoff from mining and extracting metal that mostly happens in unregulated third-world countries, the limited supply of lithium and other metals... the battery-powered car is an environmental disaster.

[RobJohnson]

It's cheapest to run a car on petroleum gasoline, all bio-fuels are far more expensive to buy...and to make.  Even if it works out that electric cars take less money to charge than a gas tank to fill, they still cost a horrendous amount to build...especially the batteries (which take harmful metals and petroleum to build...and transport...and recycle.)  The greenies have definitely NOT thought this through.  (Except the ones, like Gore, that have bought into companies that will pay back handsomely on the government forced carbon trades)

Of course, for Gore, there is nothing about global warming he actually believes...he's just a salesman pushing his product.

The electric cars have alot of extra risks in case of vehcile accidents! Batterys like to go "bang" and make sure the fire dept does not cut into that big yellow wire with the jaws of life when trying to get you out of that ****ing folded up cracker box they call a car. 

[RobJohnson]

  Now run a 2500 lb car 100 miles a day while charging it on electricity that costs that much and tell me people could afford that.

They can't, plus it would create more drain on the utility companies, just causing them to expand and raise rates!

But it sounds good to the  DUmmies.

[Chris]

The car companies will be pushing these whether they work or not... they need an artificial way to lower their CAFE standards by 2013, or whenever the new standards take effect.

[JohnnyReb]

It's an evil scheme to limit the mobility of the general public. As it stands now, you can jump in your car and go from coast to coast or border to border in a couple of days. If the government were to shut down petroleum production you could still steal enough somewhere to make it. But if they shut off the electrical grid, most would be stranded within a few miles of home.

.....evil government conspiracy mode is now disabled/off