Ghey fundamentalist thinks he's going to hell. Please help?

[dutch508]

I'm not cruising the ghey boards...but some threads just scream out to you.

qb  (1000+ posts)      Wed Apr-08-09 01:30 PM
Original message http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x125376


I need biblical references/resources to help a gay fundamentalist who thinks he's going to hell.
 Can anyone help? It's my cousin's neighbor. Thanks.
 

tekisui  (1000+ posts)        Wed Apr-08-09 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Tell him to put down the Bible.
 You can't argue logic and reason through biblical quotes. It is full of contradictions and antiquated thinking.

Tell him there is no God. Tell him to have sex without a condom. Tell him AIDs is just a passing fad...

Midlodemocrat  (1000+ posts)        Wed Apr-08-09 01:35 PM
Original message
There is no condemnation of homosexuality by Jesus anywhere
 in the New Testament. As for the Old? Well, the New Testament is a new covenant between God and his people.
 

This is true. Jesus said love your neighbor as yourself. He said, Go, and sin no more.

Deep13  (1000+ posts)      Wed Apr-08-09 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. ...and ignore the rest of the NT.
 So why did the council of Nicea staple that huge OT to all the Jesus stuff if it doesn't matter? And what about the homophobic and misogynistic rantings of Paul which actually predate the gospels?

And how will the meek inherit the Earth if they never stand up and take it? And if someone hits me in the head, then his intentions are pretty clear. Assuming that first punch did not knock me out, why shouldn't I hit him back? Isn't declining to do so just a surrender to the bullies of the world? And since when does decline to judge others shield a person from the judgment of others? So, yeah, maybe he out to skip that part too. And sure, love one another. Who can object to that? But love others as much as oneself? Maybe if I'm willing to starve to death. As it is, humans are no so constituted to love others to such a degree that it equals ones own survival instinct. This is one of those impossible standards of behavior one is bound to fail. And love god with all ones heart and mind? What an ego maniac! Again, that is not possible for a human animal.

Deep13 isn't too deep.

Deep13  (1000+ posts)      Wed Apr-08-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. Well, you might get away with that, and it might be a good idea...
 to encourage a more realistic reading of the Bible. You know, a product of barbaric times and we know better now. The Bible being just plain wrong may be too great of a jump for this person right now.

But I have to ask to what extent any of the Bible is believable or authoritative if one is willing to ignore huge amounts of it. I dispute that OT law can be disregarded. If that were true, there would be no OT law in the Christian Bible. And JC says in Matt. that he came to fulfill the Law, not to eliminate it and further says that fulfillment, whatever that means, will not happen until the end of the world. There are 613 commandments in the OT and the Ten Commandments are just a few of them chosen apparently because they include blasphemy, murder, theft and adultery. All of them are unequivocal directives punishable by death.

I agree that the canonical gospels do not mention homosexuality one way or the other. I just don't see that fact as especially significant. The Epistles are the foundation of Christianity and the NT. Most of the actual theology of the NT is in the Epistles and the writings of Paul are the oldest documents in the Christian religion. They contain no details of JC's life or death, no miracles (unless one includes Paul's epileptic seizure and hallucination) and no quotations of JC. In fact, Paul seems to have been a follower of the son-of-god-in-heaven cult. This is a Jewish heresy where god creates a son in heaven who intervenes on behalf of humanity, but who was never a person. The gospels were written decades later and contradict each other. They may be a good read, but I would not rely on them for what JC did or said.

 

qb  (1000+ posts)      Wed Apr-08-09 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
21. Thank you all. He's young & lives with his fundy mother so it will be tough until he moves out.

[The Village Idiot]

oh please. go to a real church, pray and really truly repent for all your sins

[USA4ME]

qb

I need biblical references/resources to help a gay fundamentalist who thinks he's going to hell.

Can anyone help? It's my cousin's neighbor. Thanks.

Oh, he only "thinks" it and you want references to passages that confirm it.  Plenty of those.

.

[Chris_]

So, if we can ignore the absolute prohibition of homosexuality in the OT because it doesn't fit with the "morals" of today, can I ignore King David, because I don't like that name?

[MrsSmith]

Mat 15:18 "But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. 

Mat 15:19 "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. 

Mar 7:20 And He was saying, "That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man. 

Mar 7:21 "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 

Mar 7:22 deeds of coveting {and} wickedness, {as well} {as} deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride {and} foolishness.
 
Mar 7:23 "All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man." 

Mar 10:6 "But from the beginning of creation, {God} MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE. 

Mar 10:7 "FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER, 

Mar 10:8 AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. 

Mat 19:4 And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created {them} from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 

Mat 19:5 and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'? 

Mat 19:6 "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." 

Some of those "contradictions" that "don't say anything about homosexuality."   

[Carl]

One thing I have never understood...if you don`t like or agree with what is written in the Bible then you are perfectly free to ignore it.
God gives us all that choice,why so many are determined to make it say something other then it does is beyond me.

Couldn`t possibly be the convicting of sin that the Holy Spirit does when the Word is read or spoken could it?

Think about that DUmmies.

[Chris_]

1CO 6:9  Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

ROM 1:26  Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.

27  In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

32  Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

The DUmmie version of the NT must have a few pages missing.

[AllosaursRus]

actually it's pretty easy! Stop being a damn queer and all will be right with world.

What the hell is the prob?

[diesel driver]

1CO 6:9  Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

ROM 1:26  Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.

27  In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

32  Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

The DUmmie version of the NT must have a few pages missing.

I was just reading that very passage in Romans 2 days ago, and was on my way to look it up when you posted it....

Great minds think alike, eh....   

[MrsSmith]

1CO 6:9  Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

ROM 1:26  Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.

27  In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

32  Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

The DUmmie version of the NT must have a few pages missing.

Ah, but those weren't stated by Christ...they were written by that "misogynistic, homophobic Paul."   You know that guy, the one that decided to pretend to be a Christian for all the power and fame that would give him?  (oh, wait...he already had power and fame...)  He decided to pretend to be a Christian for all the wealth he could gain.  (oh, wait...he didn't even try to get rich...)  He decided to pretend to be a Christian for political reasons.  (oh, wait...Christians had no political power...)  Well, he wasn't a real Christian, anyway, so there is NO WAY he could have been correct in all those extremely well-considered and reasoned epistles he wrote.  (oh, wait...)   

[AllosaursRus]

EXACTLY! Oh wait!

[Chris_]

Ah, but those weren't stated by Christ...they were written by that "misogynistic, homophobic Paul."   You know that guy, the one that decided to pretend to be a Christian for all the power and fame that would give him?  (oh, wait...he already had power and fame...)  He decided to pretend to be a Christian for all the wealth he could gain.  (oh, wait...he didn't even try to get rich...)  He decided to pretend to be a Christian for political reasons.  (oh, wait...Christians had no political power...)  Well, he wasn't a real Christian, anyway, so there is NO WAY he could have been correct in all those extremely well-considered and reasoned epistles he wrote.  (oh, wait...)   

Then there's my favorite...."We know what it says, but here's what God really meant to say..."  

[Mr Mannn]

The Point.

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

The Word is clear. Unrepentant (practicing) homosexuals who die in their sin, GO TO HELL. They can go to church, they can call themselves a Christian...but if they are practicing homosexuals when they die--they will spend eternity in Hell.

This passage lists a number of sins that offer the same consequences for unrepentance. An unrepentant thief goes straight to hell as well.

BUT, no other sin listed in that passage has a number of followers out to forcibly legalize their sin-calling sin a civil right.

When Jesus stopped the stoning of the adulteress, He told her to. "Go and sin no more." Repentance doesn't mean perfection, or a lack of struggle...The sin must stop! If a gay or lesbian isn't even trying to stop, then yes, they are gonna burn.

Thats what the Good Book says. If this kid doesn't like it, then maybe Christianity is not for him.