Author Topic: primitives discuss payday loans  (Read 824 times)

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Offline franksolich

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primitives discuss payday loans
« on: April 07, 2009, 04:34:58 AM »
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5403920

Oh my.

People are having to take out payday loans in this 0bumbling economy?

I thought 0bumble was going to take care of things, and he's already had more than 80 days.

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MercutioATC  (1000+ posts)        Mon Apr-06-09 08:10 PM
Original message
 
At the risk of arousing your ire, a couple of points about "payday loans".

(which have generally been ignored here at DU)

1) The interest rates charged are NOT as bad as detractors would have you believe.

"Payday loans" are two-week loans. They're not 12-month or longer in term. Those who demonize the lenders and/or cry for "20% rates" aren't doing the math: a 300% annual rate equates to an 11.54 rate if the loan is payed off as agreed. That would generate $23.08 in interest and fees for the lender on a standard 2-week, $200 loan.

...and if the annual rate was 20% as some here have suggested, the lender would only generate revenue of $1.54 for the same loan.

2) People who take advantage of the services of "payday loans" usually have no alternative.

Yes, that's unfortunate, but that's the current situation and while better education, a higher minimum wage, universal healthcare, etc. would help immensely, that's not the issue at hand.

Imagine the following situation:

You have a job that you have to drive to, no savings, and lousy credit.

The fuel pump on your car breaks. You can get the $200 to fix it, but not for two weeks when you get paid again. No bank will loan you money.

You have two options...take out a "payday loan" for two weeks, get your car fixed, and keep your job (paying $20-$30 in fees and interest for the loan) or wait until you're paid and lose your job because you couldn't get to work for two weeks.

My point is that "payday" lenders provide a needed service.

This may not be popular here, but we should at least address the facts as they exist...not a bunch of hype.

For some mysterious reason, I find that credit card rates and payday loans are of more-than-usual interest to the primitives.  One wonders why.

Or perhaps one doesn't wonder.

Anyway, it's a very large and violent bonfire.

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xchrom  (1000+ posts)        Mon Apr-06-09 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
 
1. they might provide a needed service -- but there is nothing, nothing heroic or smart or anything else about 300% plus interest.

i don't care if it is a two week loan -- it's ****in criminal.

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MercutioATC  (1000+ posts)        Mon Apr-06-09 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
 
2. But it's NOT 300% interest! That's the point!

It's 11.54% if you pay off the loan as agreed. The only way you pay more than that (assuming the "300% interest" claim) is if you violate the terms of the agreement and renew a 2-week loan TWENTY FIVE TIMES in a row.

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xchrom  (1000+ posts)        Mon Apr-06-09 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
 
4. if somebody renegs on something twentyfive times in a row

and the payday guy is still lending -- then there is something in it for the payday guy.

and i'm guessing that people who have to use this service -- are vulnerable to being late.

the system is designed to prey on the poor.

and it's ****in criminal.
used to be called loan sharking -- still should be.

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WeDidIt  (1000+ posts)      Mon Apr-06-09 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
 
5. No, it's 300% interest!!!!

Interest rates are calculated on a per annum basis, not on the life of a loan.

11.54% on a credit card is 11.54% PER ANNUM

They're worse than the ****ing mob.

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MercutioATC  (1000+ posts)        Mon Apr-06-09 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
 
13. No. The total interest paid on thre principle is 11.54%

...and that even includes processing fees.

"Per annum" is only pertinent on loans that are paid over one year or longer. Even if you extrapolate the interest and fees over an entire year, the interest rate paid (again, including fees) is only 11.54%.

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WeDidIt  (1000+ posts)      Mon Apr-06-09 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
 
16. Sorry, but you are simply not being honest

Intrerest rates are ALWAYS CALCULATED PER ANNUM, so saying you're less than honest about the interest rate is actually an understatement.

Know how I know?

I came within a hair's breadth of taking one out.

The papers you sign spell it out, Your interest rate is listed right theere and it's over 300%.

If I'm that depserate for cash, I'll do what I did before there were such scam artists. I'll make do, improvise, and do without.

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MercutioATC  (1000+ posts)        Mon Apr-06-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
 
28. Ok, what percentage of $200 is $23.08? It's 11.54%. How is that "dishonest"?

If you pay off the loan as you agreed in two weeks, you pay interest of 11/54% of the principle.

No "honesty" required...that's simple math.

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WeDidIt  (1000+ posts)      Mon Apr-06-09 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
 
31. Bullshit

You are not an honest person.

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MercutioATC  (1000+ posts)        Mon Apr-06-09 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #31
 
35. Again, what is dishonest about anything I've presented?

1) The actual interest paid is 11.54% of the principal.

2) On a $200 loan, that's a total interest/fee charge of a little over $20.

3) The only way you get 300% is to extrapolate the interest and fees to 25x the term of the loan.

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WeDidIt  (1000+ posts)      Mon Apr-06-09 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #35
 
36. You keep saying the interest rate paid is 11.54%

nothing could be further than the truth because itnerest rates are always PER ANNUM.

That's pretty much the way the bonfire rages.

The erstwhile defender of the poor and helpless, Doug's ex-wife:

Quote
EFerrari  (1000+ posts)        Mon Apr-06-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
 
26. And I just saw a report on Amy's show that here in CA, these f#ckers are overwhelmingly located in poor black neighborhoods.

Who can POSSIBLY defend these people?

I dunno.  Who can POSSIBLY defend Yugo Chavez?

Oh.
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Offline Carl

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Re: primitives discuss payday loans
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2009, 04:42:20 AM »
It would seem that DUmmies would do well to learn that the simplest way to deal with things you don`t like is to not use them.

Offline Chris_

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Re: primitives discuss payday loans
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2009, 05:33:17 AM »
IMHO, those foolish enough to use Payday loans or Rent To Own, deserve what they get.
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Offline franksolich

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Re: primitives discuss payday loans
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2009, 05:40:45 AM »
IMHO, those foolish enough to use Payday loans or Rent To Own, deserve what they get.

Life is hard, it's harder when you are stupid.

Life is hard for the primitives not only because the primitives are stupid, but because the primitives can't think outside the box.

A primitive runs out of money.

Inside the box, the primitive thinks his only option is.....to get money, at any cost.

No one has ever accused the primitives of being creative, innovative, problem-solvers.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: primitives discuss payday loans
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2009, 08:47:41 AM »
It's like watching chimps argue about how to maximize fuel flow in a turbopump for a rocket engine. They can't even get the basic terms like APR right, or apply them correctly.
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Offline Celtic Rose

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Re: primitives discuss payday loans
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2009, 09:27:04 AM »
And yet again we see the DUmmies demonizing a process that they clearly don't understand.

Point the first, every lender with a grain of common sense is going to charge higher interest rates to borrowers without proven credit history, or with poor credit history.  Quite simply, those are the borrowers who are the most unlikely to pay off the amount as agreed, so the lender charges more for the risk, and to compensate for those who don't repay the money.  As DUmmies WeDidIt pointed out, the terms are clearly laid out when you get the loan.  I've never gotten one, but I suspect that the terms are something along the lines of x% interest rate, with interest calculated every two weeks (to match the typical pay schedule).  That would add up very quickly of course if the loan is not paid off in a timely manner, but I imagine that the high interest rates are meant as deterrent to ensure that people do pay off the loans as planned.

And the regarding the DUmmy who was bemoaning the fact that Payday Loan centers are mainly in black neighborhoods, from what I've seen, they are largely in lower income areas, which makes sense because in all honestly, most people with a higher income have other resources.  A person who makes $8000 a month is unlikely to need an extra $200 to make it to the next paycheck, and they probably have at least one credit card, or some savings, or some other resource to turn too.

In the DUmmies world, banks should be forced to offer low interest rates even to high risk people (wait, they already forced the issue there.  That's how we got into this mortgage mess in the first place!) 

Offline Karin

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Re: primitives discuss payday loans
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2009, 09:30:45 AM »
And they don't think contingently, from the beginning of almost-adulthood.  As in, "I need to try and develop a good financial history, so I have backup funds and my credit standing is solid." 

Life sucks when you have an emergency, and absolutely no recourse. 

Offline USA4ME

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Re: primitives discuss payday loans
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2009, 10:47:54 AM »
The concept of interest and money really confuses them, that much is obvious.

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Offline USA4ME

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Re: primitives discuss payday loans
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2009, 10:51:24 AM »
Quote from:
walldude
 
17. I don't know where you got your interest rates from but as I said in the last thread, here in Colorado the rate is $75 per week on a $500 loan. If my math is correct that is 120% per month.

So $75/wk times 4 weeks equals $300/mo equals 120% of $500.

Oooooooooooooooooookay.  :mental:

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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: primitives discuss payday loans
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2009, 10:58:56 AM »
The only people I have run into that use these places are druggies, (kinda 'splains the DUmmies, don't it!) and it is usually to bail their significant other out of the hoosgow!
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Offline Taxman

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Re: primitives discuss payday loans
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2009, 12:11:29 PM »
Here they like to pride themselves in their supposed intelligence but the very basic concept of APR slips right past these geniuses. 

Offline Vagabond

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Re: primitives discuss payday loans
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2009, 12:34:05 PM »
I had to use one once when I was a just enlisted soldier.  i got a little stupid whining and dining one of my girlfriends and was about $100 short for my truck payment.  I took the loan and and repayed in full about a week later.  I learned my lesson the hard way.  I always have at least three thousand or so stashed so I don't have to take a stupid loan.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: primitives discuss payday loans
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2009, 12:41:13 PM »
Since when do DUmmies even have a "PAYDAY".

Oh!....forgot about the first of the month gummymint checks.
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Re: primitives discuss payday loans
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2009, 05:54:03 PM »
It's like watching chimps argue about how to maximize fuel flow in a turbopump for a rocket engine.

Sounds like you have first-hand experience in observing the above . . .  :tongue:
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Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: primitives discuss payday loans
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2009, 12:25:18 AM »
Payday loans are not just in poor black hoods. they are everywhere and people need them.

ever heard of a Pawn Shop? not much difference really.

Offline RobJohnson

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Re: primitives discuss payday loans
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2009, 01:24:05 AM »
Before some states cracked down, some of those places were charging over 1000%

But people like MercutioATC think otherwise!
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 01:27:30 AM by RobJohnson »