Single engine plane crashes in Butte Montana

[thundley4]

On Fox News now, no link, but 17 reported dead.  (It crashed in a cemetery)

[Chris_]

Here you go.

Federal Aviation Administration spokesman says 17 people have died in a plane crash in Butte, Mont.

FAA Spokesman Mike Fergus says preliminary reports indicate the dead include numerous children.

"We think that it was probably a ski trip for the kids," Fergus said.

The plane was traveling from Oroville, Calif. before it crashed into Holy Cross cemetary, officials told The Montana Standard.

Fergus says the plane departed from Orville, Calif. and that the pilot had filed a flight plan showing a final destination of Bozeman. The pilot had canceled his flight plan at some point and headed for Butte.

The plane crashed about 500 feet from the airport while attempting to land and caught fire.

There were no known fatalities on the ground.

An eyewitness to the crash told The Montana Standard the plane was doing steep angle turns and then went into a nose dive.

"All of a sudden the pilot lost control and went into a nose dive," said Kenny Gulick. "He couldn't pull out in time and crashed into the trees of the cemetery."

Fergus said the plane, a Pilatus PC-12 aircraft, was manufactured in 2001. He said the National Transportation Safety Board has an investigator located in Butte who was thought to be on scene. The FAA's flight standards investigator was en route.

There will be a press conference at the airport.

[thundley4]

Thanks.  Do these people think before they speak?

The plane crashed about 500 feet from the airport while attempting to land and caught fire.

There were no known fatalities on the ground.

It crashed in a cemetery, fer cryin' out loud.

[Chris_]

Thanks.  Do these people think before they speak?
It crashed in a cemetery, fer cryin' out loud.

 

I didn't even pick up on that. That is kind of funny. 

[Chris_]

An image of the aircraft type in question.

General characteristics

Crew: one or two pilots
Capacity: 9 passengers standard, 6-8 executive
Payload: 1,500 kg (3,502 lb)
Length: 14.40 m (47 ft 3 in)
Wingspan: 16.23 m (53 ft 3 in)
Height: 4.26 m (14 ft 0 in)
Wing area: 25.81 m² (277.8 ft²)
Empty weight: 2,761 kg (5,867 lb)
Loaded weight: 4,700 kg (10,450 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 4,740 kg (10,450 lb)
Powerplant: 1× Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-67B turboprop, 895 kW (1,200 shp)
Maximum landing: 4,700 kg (10,450 lb)
Maximum payload full fuel: 539 kg (1,189 lb)
Tail wingspan: 5.20 m (17 ft 1 in)
Propeller: Hartzell HC - E4A - 3D/E10477K – 4 blade aluminum
Propeller diameter: 2.67 m (8 ft 9 in)
Propeller RPM: 1,700 rpm constant speed

Performance

Cruise speed: 500 km/h (312.5 mph / 270 KTAS / 280 KTAS @ 20000ft (PC-12NG))
Stall speed: 120 km/h (74.8 mph / 65 KCAS / 66 KCAS (PC-12NG))
Service ceiling: 9,150 m (30,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 512 m/min at sea level (1,680 ft/min)
Wing loading: 174.3 kg/m² (35.7 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 3.7 kg/shp (8.2 lb/shp)
Range 0 passenger: 4,149 km (2,593 mi) (2,239 nm)
Range 9 passenger: 2,804 km (1,753 mi) (1,513 nm)
Takeoff distance over 15 m (50 ft) obstacle: 701 m (2,300 ft)
Takeoff distance ground roll: 450 m (1,475 ft)
Landing distance over 15 m (50 ft) obstacle: 558 m (1,830 ft)
Landing distance ground roll: 228 m (945 ft)

I'm kinda curious how the hell they got 15 passengers on a 9-passenger plane. Were the kids all 3rd graders or something?

More likely - me thinks - I've run into a lot of ego driven individuals upstairs who drive the Pilatus'.  Another California Pilatus pilot - and ambulance chasing attorney - raised a whole lot of hell over a whole lot less than there could have been when he violated airspace at a MOA in Arizona and got the surprise of his life when an F-16 pilot had to see and avoid his sorry ass.  Maybe the pilot(s) of this ship thought that so long as the kids all fit in under the weight limits of the bird, they were good to go. (He's a bigger dumbass than he looks, if that was his reasoning for okaying this hop.)

[Chris_]

When does "9 passengers standard, 6-8 executive" mean?

Serious question. I really don't know.

[Chris_]

When does "9 passengers standard, 6-8 executive" mean?

Serious question. I really don't know.

9 Passengers if the plane's cabin seating is configured like an airliner's - knees in your chest, etc...

6-8 passengers if they configure the cabin seating along the lines of a Gulfstream-style executive transport.

[Chris_]

9 Passengers if the plane's cabin seating is configured like an airliner's - knees in your chest, etc...

6-8 passengers if they configure the cabin seating along the lines of a Gulfstream-style executive transport.

Ah, I see. Thanks!

[thundley4]

Fox News was saying that the high number of fatalities may have been because it was mostly children on a ski trip. 

[Chris_]

Fox News was saying that the high number of fatalities may have been because it was mostly children on a ski trip. 

If this had been a less-than fatal outcome - a gear up belly "landing", for example - there would have been considerably more injuries than was otherwise necessary, because he had decided to fly with more passengers than he had seatbelts for.  This pilot would have his ticket jerked permanently, had he survived.  This guy, in my considered opinion, is a world class idiot at best.

[Thor]

Sure seems like the pilot allowed and departed with an over capacity airplane. While it may not have been overweight, it was definitely over crowded, with unsafe conditions. This jerkwad should not only have his ticket pulled, but should serve prison time. What the pilot did was beyond irresponsible.

[rich_t]

He won't make that sort of mistake again.

[Chris_]

...An eyewitness to the crash told The Montana Standard the plane was doing steep angle turns and then went into a nose dive.

I'm wondering if maybe this indicates that the plane was indeed overloaded as well. Gentle turns get hard to keep gentle when your ship is overweight.

Of course it could go back to that whole "6 more passengers than the plane was rated for" problem, too.  Here's a minimum of 6 kids out of seatbelts as the plane makes an approach on an airport surrounded by mountains.  Assume maybe 100 pounds per kid as a nice round figure, 600 pounds thrown around a cabin everytime the plane banks into a turn could take a CG and throw it to hell and gone, I'd imagine.  That's 20% of the plane's rated payload moving under the influence of gravity on every turn.

Either way, this pilot gives the rest of us good ones a black eye.  Given this Congress and it's proclivity to regulate the hell out of anything in response to a perceived "failure of excess liberty", I can't imagine anything good coming out of this for the rest of us in general aviation.

[Bluesuiter-Retired]

According to someone at the california airport, the 12 children appeared to range in age from 6 to 10.

I can only surmise that due to the age and weight of the children the folks who let that many aboard figured it was safe to fly with two children per seat or an adult holding a child on their lap.

The fact that the aircraft made it over both the Sierras and the Rockies tells me that weight "was not" a factor, unless of course weight caused the engine to fail while it was on approach to Butte.  The pilot evidently felt something was amiss since he cancelled out his Bozeman destination and opted to land in Butte.

[debk]

According to someone at the california airport, the 12 children appeared to range in age from 6 to 10.

I can only surmise that due to the age and weight of the children the folks who let that many aboard figured it was safe to fly with two children per seat or an adult holding a child on their lap.

The fact that the aircraft made it over both the Sierras and the Rockies tells me that weight "was not" a factor, unless of course weight caused the engine to fail while it was on approach to Butte.  The pilot evidently felt something was amiss since he cancelled out his Bozeman destination and opted to land in Butte.

Since he was trying to land at Butte instead of going on to Boseman....wonder if he had a fuel problem.

It would have made a difference too, if they took all their ski equipment with them...I would think.

No matter what....it's tragic. And creepy that it crashed in a cemetary.....

[RobJohnson]

One report I seen said the plane was built for 12 passengers & there is no black box.

[thundley4]

Update from a couple of hours ago.

FAA: 14 people, 7 kids, die in Mont. plane crash

BUTTE, Mont. – A single engine turboprop airplane nose-dived into a cemetery as it approached the Butte airport Sunday afternoon, killing 14 people aboard, a federal official said.
The number of those dead was confirmed by Karen Byrd, an FAA operations officer in Renton, Wash. Byrd said the death toll included seven adults and seven children.
The plane was believed to be taking its occupants on a ski trip to Montana. The death toll originally had been put as high as 17.
*snip*
A California newspaper, the Napa Valley Register, reported on its Web site late Sunday that a family of five from St. Helena, Calif., including three preschoolers, was among the victims.

Link

[Bluesuiter-Retired]

Sadder still is it is reported than an ENTIRE family from St Helena CA was killed, mom, dad, and all three of their children under the age of 10 with the youngest being 2.