Author Topic: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.  (Read 4715 times)

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Offline Texacon

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Link to crying and whining.


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proud2BlibKansan  (1000+ posts)       

Wed Mar-11-09 07:40 AM
Original message

You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.

I get to pick my kids. Since I teach in the hood, and deal with so many things that interfere with academic achievement, I want only kids from homes with two parents who earn enough to keep food on the table. They also need to have enough time to take their kid after school for sports, or other extra curricular activities that the schools no longer offer. And tutoring if I recommend it.

The kids can't ever be absent. So they need to be healthy and their parents need to have reliable transportation.

Parents can't be incarcerated or drug addicts or alcoholics.

Kids have to do their homework every night. 10 minutes for every year of school. 1st grade, 10 minutes, 5th grade, 50 minutes, etc. No exceptions. If they don't, they fail. No strikes.

No video games at home; they are too distracting and damaging to brain development.

I will also need plenty of money for classroom supplies. This year I got $0. This is non negotiable.

Only the latest technology. Smart boards, a lazer color printer and copier, a laptop for each kid and a technician standing by to fix things when they break. No, I won't share the technician with another teacher.

No field trips. They are a huge liability issue and too expensive. So I would expect parents to spend evenings and weekends taking their kids to local museums and other educational sites.

No more than 15 kids in my class, divided as evenly as possible among boys and girls and age.

Absolutely no kids with disabilities or who don't speak English. If the kid speaks English but the parents don't, I won't accept that student.

No standardized testing. It doesn't work anyway. If you want to know how much my kids have learned, ask me. I can tell you far more than any test could.

Now for my pay. I am promising guaranteed results so I won't do this for less than $100,000 a year to start. Since I have 30 years experience, I would expect more in the range of $200,000, since most professionals eventually double their pay from the start of their career to the end. And this is actually very reasonable, since I started teaching at $7000 a year and now earn lots more than twice that.

Oh one more thing. No principal. I have had maybe ONE who had a smidgen of an idea as to how to run a school. So don't waste your money on administrators.

So yes, bring on that merit pay. I am ready once you have met my conditions.
 

This is a HUGE thread but the OP is so hate filled, racist and classist I couldn't just leave it over there.

Have fun.

KC
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Offline delilahmused

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Re: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2009, 02:06:22 PM »
So in other words she's such a piss-poor teacher the only way she can perform her job adequately is to have optimal teaching conditions. Well I guess we can't expect to see the Kansas version of "Dangerous Minds" anytime soon.

Cindie
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2009, 02:10:13 PM »
Quote from:
proud2BlibKansan

You want to give me merit pay?

Primitive, if you received pay according to your merit you wouldn't even earn half the minimum wage per day.  Otherwise, based upon your demands for continued employment, you're contract will not be renewed.  Students will be better off for it.

These dolts just want to protect themselves and their fellow teachers who have needed to be drummed out of teaching for years now.  Nothing but accross the board pay based upon time on the job, the best of benefits, and making it virtually impossible to get fired will ever satisfy these commies.

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Offline Lord Undies

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Re: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2009, 02:21:18 PM »
Quote
I get to pick my kids. Since I teach in the hood, and deal with so many things that interfere with academic achievement, I want only kids from homes with two parents who earn enough to keep food on the table. They also need to have enough time to take their kid after school for sports, or other extra curricular activities that the schools no longer offer. And tutoring if I recommend it.

Oh, my!  We have a Little Goon on record admitting all situations aren't equal after all.  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Offline AprilRazz

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Re: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2009, 02:55:12 PM »
Oh so she wants kids from primarily conservative families. You sure as hell won't find that in most dim households.
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Offline jukin

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Re: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2009, 03:10:56 PM »
I love it when they prove our points.

If it were not for welfare there would be 1/5 the amount of unwed mothers.

If it were not for welfare there would be 1/3 the amount of drug addicts.

If it were not NEA there would not be 6 times the amount of money going to the system and not the teacher in the classroom.

If it were not NEA there would not be 5 times the amount of money going to supplies and fancy gizmos that generations in the past did not need but did better in school.

The teacher I know make an equivalent amount of $90-$110K per year but choose to take 30% off in vacations.  Oh and they NEVER DO unpaid overtime...well never do overtime period.  also as a member of private industry I don't get to retire at 55 without paying social security and medicare taxes (18% for me).

When you are the beneficiary of someone’s kindness and generosity, it produces a sense of gratitude and community.

When you are the beneficiary of a policy that steals from someone and gives it to you in return for your vote, it produces a sense of entitlement and dependency.

Offline Splashdown

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Re: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2009, 03:25:51 PM »
I'd give that teacher all that, and she'd STILL suck!  :tongue:
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2009, 03:29:08 PM »
So in other words she's such a piss-poor teacher the only way she can perform her job adequately is to have optimal teaching conditions. Well I guess we can't expect to see the Kansas version of "Dangerous Minds" anytime soon.

Cindie

There is kind of a thread of truth to her rant, basically the problem with most teacher merit pay schemes is that they are run by the same moron school administrators that screwed the school up in the first place..the same folks whose petty intrigues and inability to reward the good and eliminate the bad (and often corruption, gold-plated perks, and embezzlement) are primarily responsible for their school systems being shitholes.  The problem with most FUBAR schools is not so much poor teaching, as it is crooked or incompetent administration.

The valid part of the OP's point is that the people doing the hardest and most thankless teaching jobs aren't going to be the ones rewarded because they aren't going to be the ones with the best stats, which does have some truth to it.  Merit pay in public sector jobs sounds a whole lot better than it usually works out to be for these reasons.  It generally does more to discourage the best people from staying in the jobs that need them than anything else - there is a basic economic imperative to either get into one of the jobs that is likely to produce better stats, suck up to the fatcats administering the merit pay system (and fumbling management of the school system), or just get pissed off and leave for greener pastures.   
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Offline ReardenSteel

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Re: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2009, 04:15:03 PM »
Quote
brentspeak  (1000+ posts)      Wed Mar-11-09 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
204. I would not want to be a public school teacher if I had to deal with the corporate rat-race

 As a self-motivated person, I enjoy doing an exemplary job for the sake of doing an exemplary job. Outside "motivation" in the form of a veiled threat that my job would be in jeopardy unless I meet someone else'-designed criteria of qualifying for "merit" pay has the opposite effect on people like myself: rather than become more motivated, we become demoralized. Office politics, including backstabbing, behind-the-doors politicking, brown-nosing, favoritism make the situation doubly worse. While some of those things I'm sure are present to some degree in public education, I know from conversations I have with teacher friends that they are nowhere near the level of toxicity that occur in the private sector. Contemporary American corporate management incentive strategies based on inter-employee competition and fear are a cancer in the private sector; why would anyone want to expose themselves to them by entering a "merit" pay education system?


"Office politics, including backstabbing, behind-the-doors politicking, brown-nosing, favoritism" are for people without merit.

 :banghead:

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LeftyMom  (1000+ posts)        Wed Mar-11-09 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
14. I want a pony. 
 
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 proud2BlibKansan  (1000+ posts)        Wed Mar-11-09 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #14
24. When they pay me my $200,000, I shall buy you one


 ::) Some gags write themselves.

Quote
stray cat  (1000+ posts)     Wed Mar-11-09 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
20. How about just firing everyone who isn't considered competent
 Edited on Wed Mar-11-09 08:30 AM by stray cat
thats what my company would do to me if I were incompetent. Skip rewards for doing something well - if you don't do it well you are gone. Lets stop protecting incompetent individuals whether bankers or a few teachers and let the unions protect competent people and let incompetent people go.
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 proud2BlibKansan  (1000+ posts)        Wed Mar-11-09 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #20
60. The problem is how to define 'competent'
 I have seen more than a few outstanding teachers quit because they were treated so badly by incompetent or just downright mean administrators.


The problem is how to define competent? Damn I hope she's not an English teacher.








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Offline Texacon

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Re: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2009, 04:26:23 PM »
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proud2BlibKansan  (1000+ posts)        Wed Mar-11-09 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #20
60. The problem is how to define 'competent'
 I have seen more than a few outstanding teachers quit because they were treated so badly by incompetent or just downright mean administrators.

This is different from the real world how?  I have quit several jobs due simply to a personality conflict.  The boss is the boss and if you don't like it then you move on.  It is not a big deal to find another job when you are truly good at your job.

KC
  Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day.  Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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Offline bijou

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Re: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2009, 04:37:59 PM »
So as others have intimated, kids who do well at school are more likely to be the ones who have been brought up in a functional family with more traditional values. Still DU will never make the connection.



Offline Servonaut

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Re: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2009, 04:57:33 PM »
I'm gonna assume proud2BlibKansan lives in Kansas

Yeah, I know  Duh

Let's look at the graduation rate



http://www.all4ed.org/files/Kansas_wc.pdf

In my line of work, if only 74% of my aircraft made it to their destination safe and
sound, I would not be worried about merit pay, I would be unemployed.

Dummie, get it up to a 99.99999% graduation rate then we'll talk.   

Offline miskie

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Re: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2009, 06:16:09 PM »
Quote from: LeftyMom
LeftyMom  (1000+ posts)       
Wed Mar-11-09 08:18 AM

Response to Original message
14. I want a pony.

Get in line.. We are all waiting for our Government Ponies.

Offline rich_t

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Re: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2009, 06:29:36 PM »
This is different from the real world how?  I have quit several jobs due simply to a personality conflict.  The boss is the boss and if you don't like it then you move on.  It is not a big deal to find another job when you are truly good at your job.

KC

That depends on career field and location.  I'm pretty damn good at my job, but there have been so many folks in my career field that have been laid off in the last year or so, that it's pretty slim pickin's job wise where I live.
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Offline Texacon

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Re: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2009, 07:05:27 PM »
That depends on career field and location.  I'm pretty damn good at my job, but there have been so many folks in my career field that have been laid off in the last year or so, that it's pretty slim pickin's job wise where I live.

Granted, you have to know your market.  In some markets one must eat a little more shit than in others but when the market moves up sometimes it is time to move out.

Also, it depends on what one is willing to do to get another job.  I have never had a problem moving from one locale to another up until recently.

KC
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Offline rich_t

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Re: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2009, 07:14:16 PM »
Granted, you have to know your market.  In some markets one must eat a little more shit than in others but when the market moves up sometimes it is time to move out.

Also, it depends on what one is willing to do to get another job.  I have never had a problem moving from one locale to another up until recently.

KC

I'm in that same boat.  I've relocated several times in the past to pursue career opportunities.  That is not really an option for me at this time.
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Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2009, 03:07:16 PM »
you want me to pay school taxes??

ok, on some conditions

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2009, 03:10:18 PM »

Dummie, get it up to a 99.99999% graduation rate then we'll talk.   

lets not encourage them to make graduation any more automatic than it is already

Offline Splashdown

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Re: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2009, 05:06:59 PM »
you want me to pay school taxes??

ok, on some conditions

Great answer!  :bow:
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Offline delilahmused

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Re: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2009, 08:22:40 PM »
Quote
The valid part of the OP's point is that the people doing the hardest and most thankless teaching jobs aren't going to be the ones rewarded because they aren't going to be the ones with the best stats, which does have some truth to it.  Merit pay in public sector jobs sounds a whole lot better than it usually works out to be for these reasons.  It generally does more to discourage the best people from staying in the jobs that need them than anything else - there is a basic economic imperative to either get into one of the jobs that is likely to produce better stats, suck up to the fatcats administering the merit pay system (and fumbling management of the school system), or just get pissed off and leave for greener pastures.   

So how do you explain the military? Sure there are **** ups and, like most government run organization it's a numbers game. But in general the quality of people is superior. Granted, they don't have a union, but they don't get bitchy and complacent like teachers do either. I see a constant striving for excellence with the Marines I know.

Honestly, I know this is one area where I'm very intolerant and hardcore, but schools aren't going to change unless and until parents take a greater interest in their children's education. I don't mean the usual show up for conferences, make sure the kiddies do their homework, and make sure we live in a neighborhood with "good" schools. For several generations we've been content to let the education establishment dictate what our children learn and how they learn it. Pretty much, that lack of curiosity gives us "leaders" like Barak Obama...all suit and no substance.

When parents were directly responsible for their education, before children became a social experiment, literacy rates were in the 80 to 90 percentile and values reflected those of their families and communities. Parents had a vested interest because their children's success was a reflection of them, not proof that they lived in a neighborhood with "good" schools. Frankly, if you could raise one of those pre-public school 12 year olds from the dead and pit him against your average 12 year old from a "good" school, my money would be on the first kid.

Unfortunately, most people either don't think they can or don't want to make the sacrifices that might be necessary to make sure their children have the best education possible. Like "good Germans" we live in a society where we've been conditioned to believe both parents HAVE to work. This is exactly what Mann, Dewey, Baldwin (founder of the ACLU...there's a rather incestuous history between the NEA & ACLU), etal. had in mind. Thomas Jefferson must be rolling over in his grave.

Now, I'm not necessarily talking about homeschooling though I think it's a superior education and was the solution for my family. But, it is possible to volunteer and be at school every day, talk to teachers everyday, be home when your kids get there everyday. I know it's a huge sacrifice. I was an Administrative Assistant to the manager upscale shopping center and office complex. I REALLY loved that job and it was damned hard to live without the money, especially at first. When most of my friends were on their 3rd house in the newest $300,000 neighborhood, we were just buying our first for $75,000.

Simply put, it's where you put your priorities. Every family needs to choose what works for them, but if you're going to put their education in the hands of others you kind of have to take what you get. I think that's part of the reason why private schools do so well. You pay that much for something and you want your money's worth. A radical overhaul is the only way to change the status quo and that will take a helluva lot more work than homeschooling.

Cindie
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"I am a very good shot. I have hunted for every kind of animal. But I would never kill an animal during mating season."
Hedy Lamarr

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Morticia Addams

Offline Texacon

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Re: You want to give me merit pay? Okay, under a couple conditions.
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2009, 07:05:46 AM »
lets not encourage them to make graduation any more automatic than it is already

^5

this is not the post I ^5'd.  I meant the other one about paying taxes with conditions......   :thatsright:  DOH!

KC
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 07:08:09 AM by Texacon »
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