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Offline USA4ME

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primitives want free houses
« on: March 05, 2009, 05:22:38 PM »
Quote from:
OhioChick
 
3 Words Might Keep Your Home Out Of Foreclosure

PHOENIX -- Kathy Lovelace lost her job and was about to lose her home.

“I got a letter, they were going to foreclose,” she said.

But before that happened, she spoke three words to the bank: produce the note, NewsChannel5 partner KNXV-TV reported.

Her foreclosure came to a screeching halt.

“I haven't heard a word from them," she said.

Lovelace and other homeowners around the country are using the tactic to stay in their homes.

Their strategy uses the mortgage mess that's been going on. When real estate was booming, companies sold and resold mortgages over and over again.

"No one really knew who owned what," said Chris Hoyer, an attorney with the Consumer Warning Network. "They were sold and resold so many times."

In some cases, the original note was lost, stored away or destroyed, said Hoyer.

His Web site helped Lovelace file a single piece of paper in court that requested the bank to produce her original promissory note.

"Our message was simple. Make them show who owns the note," said Hoyer. "And make them show the person who has that note has the authority to take your home away."

Ultimately, if the bank can't provide the proof, then there may not be a foreclosure. The judge may throw it out of court.

At the very least, it could simply buy you time, experts say, because the bank has to find the original mortgage company. And since many have closed, they may no longer be around.

In a study done at the University of Iowa, 40 percent of banks did not produce the note despite the law.

So far, Lovelace has put off losing her home for about four months. After she asked for the note, the bank told her it was lost or destroyed.

“If they can't produce the note, how can they say they own my home?” said Lovelace.

http://www.newsnet5.com/money/18852523/detail.html

http://www.democraticunderground.org/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5184901&mesg_id=5184901

Give them time, Kathy Lovelace.  You'll get your answer, and it won't be a free house, you leech.

Apparently, Ms. Lovelace and the primitives have ever heard of a Real Estate Compliance Agreement, which is usually a part of the recorded Deed when they obtained the mortgage (it could vary from state to state).  Regardless, Mr. Lovelace agreed to pay someone a payment per month, and a judge would (at minimum) have the borrower make their payments into an escrow account until such time it was determined who rightfully should receive the payments.

But do the primitives think of that?  No way.

Quote from:
slackmaster

3. There's no reason to use that method just to stave off foreclosure

Everyone who makes mortgage payments should just stop paying unless their servicer can produce the original note.

Anyone who keeps making payments just because they agreed to is nothing but a sucker.

Quote from:
Vinca

24. If there is no note, how can there be a mortgage lien on the property?

Someone ought to challenge that in court. Can you imagine if all the mortages were removed from the public record so people suddenly owned their properties free and clear?

Lots of posts wondering if they can suspend their payments until the bank produces a Promissory Note, and "stick it to the corps" types.

Anything they can to to get something for nothing; that defines the primitives.

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Offline crockspot

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Re: primitives want free houses
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2009, 05:30:56 PM »
I tried this once on my student loans. I had borrowed from Crocker Bank, which disappeared some years ago. I was in default, and being bothered with phone calls, so I sent whoever was trying to collect from me a letter demanding that they prove this debt with documentation of the various notes bearing my signature. That shut them up quick. I was sure that I had them...... for about a month. Then one day a big fat three inch thick envelope came in the mail, with documents bearing Crocker National Bank letterhead and my signature, as well as every transfer document on the debts as they passed from hand to hand.

It may hold them off while they gather up and photocopy everything. But you can rest assured that they can produce that documentation. It is the lifeblood of their business, and you are undoubtedly not the first person to ask for that stuff.

Offline debk

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Re: primitives want free houses
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2009, 05:43:39 PM »
I have been selling real estate for 12 years. In that time, I probably have not missed more than 5 of my closings ....if that.

The closer always reads directly from one of the papers that the buyer signs...."regardless of who owns your mortgage...you are required to make your mortgage payment in a timely manner...or the owner of the note has the right to foreclose on the property. If you understand this....sign here."

The words may vary a bit with the differnt mortgage company...but they still mean the same thing.

If you miss a payment for x number of months in a row....and you cannot work out a payment plan with the mortgage holder....they will foreclose on your property.
Just hand over the chocolate...back away slowly...far away....and you won't get hurt....

Save the Earth... it's the only planet with chocolate.

"My therapist told me the way to achieve true inner peace is to finish what I start. So far I've finished two bags of M&M's and a chocolate cake. I feel better already." – Dave Barry

A balanced diet is chocolate in both hands.

Offline Vagabond

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Re: primitives want free houses
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2009, 10:10:16 PM »
I have been selling real estate for 12 years. In that time, I probably have not missed more than 5 of my closings ....if that.

The closer always reads directly from one of the papers that the buyer signs...."regardless of who owns your mortgage...you are required to make your mortgage payment in a timely manner...or the owner of the note has the right to foreclose on the property. If you understand this....sign here."

The words may vary a bit with the differnt mortgage company...but they still mean the same thing.

If you miss a payment for x number of months in a row....and you cannot work out a payment plan with the mortgage holder....they will foreclose on your property.
I am amazed at those who "didn't know" they had a sub-prime mortage.  If you think you have a thirty year standard mortage, accounting for the interest, you should be able to figure out real close to what the actual cost of the loan is going to be per month.  Any number that varies significantly from that should raise a flag.  Plus, whatever happened to taking a legal contract to a lawyer and having him take a look at it, and telling you what it means?

Of course, another big lot of the sub-prime mortages is set to reset in April.  It could give a whole new meaning to April Fools Day.
There comes a time when even good men must run up the black flag of anarchy and slit throats. - H.L. Mencken

Offline debk

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Re: primitives want free houses
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2009, 10:19:59 PM »
I am amazed at those who "didn't know" they had a sub-prime mortage.  If you think you have a thirty year standard mortage, accounting for the interest, you should be able to figure out real close to what the actual cost of the loan is going to be per month.  Any number that varies significantly from that should raise a flag.  Plus, whatever happened to taking a legal contract to a lawyer and having him take a look at it, and telling you what it means?

Of course, another big lot of the sub-prime mortages is set to reset in April.  It could give a whole new meaning to April Fools Day.

In the mortgage packet given to a buyer at the time of closing.....there is a sheet of paper (or two) with each payment for the length of the mortgage. It tells how each payment is divided up between interest and principle.

On a fixed loan....the only change that should occur during the life of the loan is the amount of escrow needed if taxes and hazard insurance payments are included in the monthly payment. It is impossible to control or foresee how that amount will change. Insurance payment amounts usually change every couple of years, and it depends on how often the tax assessor reviews the property value for the property taxes to raise.

I had two 5-yr ARM's  where my payments stayed the same for each 5yr period. And one 3yr. where my payment was the same the entire time.
Just hand over the chocolate...back away slowly...far away....and you won't get hurt....

Save the Earth... it's the only planet with chocolate.

"My therapist told me the way to achieve true inner peace is to finish what I start. So far I've finished two bags of M&M's and a chocolate cake. I feel better already." – Dave Barry

A balanced diet is chocolate in both hands.

Offline Vagabond

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Re: primitives want free houses
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2009, 10:39:39 PM »
In the mortgage packet given to a buyer at the time of closing.....there is a sheet of paper (or two) with each payment for the length of the mortgage. It tells how each payment is divided up between interest and principle.

On a fixed loan....the only change that should occur during the life of the loan is the amount of escrow needed if taxes and hazard insurance payments are included in the monthly payment. It is impossible to control or foresee how that amount will change. Insurance payment amounts usually change every couple of years, and it depends on how often the tax assessor reviews the property value for the property taxes to raise.

I had two 5-yr ARM's  where my payments stayed the same for each 5yr period. And one 3yr. where my payment was the same the entire time.
Unless I completely miss my bet, you also made sure that you would be able to handle the the mortage when the loan reset.  There does exist a difference between someone taking a mortage knowing the possibility that the loan will reset and they may be stuck with it and someone who takes on that type of loan and hopes to roll it when the time for the  reset occurs.

I had calculated my mortage, if I had seen anything that indicated a substantially smaller monthly payment than I had calculated, I would have asked questions.  My neighbor was totally unaware that she had a mortage package like that until it reset.
There comes a time when even good men must run up the black flag of anarchy and slit throats. - H.L. Mencken

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: primitives want free houses
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2009, 11:02:25 PM »
Everyone who makes mortgage payments should just stop paying unless their servicer can produce the original note.


could you imagine how that would affect the economy??

Offline debk

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Re: primitives want free houses
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2009, 11:42:22 PM »
Unless I completely miss my bet, you also made sure that you would be able to handle the the mortage when the loan reset.  There does exist a difference between someone taking a mortage knowing the possibility that the loan will reset and they may be stuck with it and someone who takes on that type of loan and hopes to roll it when the time for the  reset occurs.

I had calculated my mortage, if I had seen anything that indicated a substantially smaller monthly payment than I had calculated, I would have asked questions.  My neighbor was totally unaware that she had a mortage package like that until it reset.

Actually...I knew how many the max percentage points it could go to, but not what it would go to.

I also accepted the fact that I had 2 choices when it came time to reset. I could refinance it or I could sell it. When the first reset came up....I refinanced it with a different company (Countrywide). And got a lower interest rate than on my original ARM

When it came time for the reset on my second ARM...Countrywide called me up. They told me they could lower my interest rate if I did another ARM with them. I told them I would do it only if I didn't have to provide any documentation to them...that they would base it on my payment history.

They agreed.....2 weeks later, they called and asked for my 1099's, my tax records, my bank statements and a copy of my divorce documents.

I told them they had a choice.....since they had called me and offered to refinance my loan, with no documentation...they could either do what they said....or I would refinance with Wells Fargo or sell my house. Either way, they would be out the money. I closed on the new note a week later....without providing any documentation.

I also was never late on a payment the next 34 months....when I sold the house.

However.....if I had had to go through with providing the documentation ....I would never have received the loan.

I am self employed and a divorced female. Can't get much worse for getting a mortgage. I also think....that having to provide divorce papers 10 years after a divorce is a serious invasion of privacy. 

The difference between myself and many other homeowners getting an ARM....is not that I am smarter or better at handling my finances or more well-off....it's that I may have a better understanding of how an ARM works....simply because I have been in real estate for so long. It's a matter of awareness and knowledge. Many people have absolutely no concept of what their mortgage entails....they are told by the lender how much they can spend, how much the downpayment must be, and what their payment will be. Beyond that...they know nothing....rarely are loan papers read at a closing before signing. In all my years, I bet not more than 5 buyers have asked for their loan papers prior to signing and most of them were transferees into the area, and their relo companies actually were the ones who reviewed the documents. I have only had 1 read the documents at the closing table.

For example....I'm going to look at cars tomorrow because my lease will be up in September and the Nissan dealership called and said they would pay off my lease if I would get another car from them in the month of March.
The other half is going with me....what I know about cars and negotiating the lease would fit in a thimble with a whole lot of room left over. I'm on my third leased car...and he's negotiated all of them. I know houses ....I don't know cars. So I take someone with me that I trust and who has the knowledge that I don't, to do a good job for me.

House purchases are the same way. If a buyer doesn't know what they are doing...they need to work with a reputable realtor who will also make sure that they are working with a reputable lender....both of which have a responsibility to the buyer to make sure that the buyer understands the entire process of purchasing a home and all the responsibilities that they are taking on with the purchase of that home.

Sadly....some people ....just are convinced they know everything about everything and they know it better than anybody else possibly could. Those individuals are one group of people who tend to get themselves into situations they know nothing about and are too proud to admit they are in trouble and won't ask for help until it is too late to help them out of bad situations.

Even prior to the current mortgage crisis.....lenders did not want houses back. It's amazing to me....how many houses I have seen in foreclosure...that were either never on the market prior to the foreclosure or that the homeowner never contacted the mortgage company until it was too late to save the home.

Many lenders...especially now....will hold off on foreclosure....provided the house is listed with a reputable real estate firm and is actively being marketed. The lender will agree to a short sale (less than what is owed on the property)....because in many instances, it will still save the lender money rather than foreclosing.
Just hand over the chocolate...back away slowly...far away....and you won't get hurt....

Save the Earth... it's the only planet with chocolate.

"My therapist told me the way to achieve true inner peace is to finish what I start. So far I've finished two bags of M&M's and a chocolate cake. I feel better already." – Dave Barry

A balanced diet is chocolate in both hands.

Offline Vagabond

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Re: primitives want free houses
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2009, 12:34:56 AM »
Actually...I knew how many the max percentage points it could go to, but not what it would go to.

I also accepted the fact that I had 2 choices when it came time to reset. I could refinance it or I could sell it. When the first reset came up....I refinanced it with a different company (Countrywide). And got a lower interest rate than on my original ARM

When it came time for the reset on my second ARM...Countrywide called me up. They told me they could lower my interest rate if I did another ARM with them. I told them I would do it only if I didn't have to provide any documentation to them...that they would base it on my payment history.

They agreed.....2 weeks later, they called and asked for my 1099's, my tax records, my bank statements and a copy of my divorce documents.

I told them they had a choice.....since they had called me and offered to refinance my loan, with no documentation...they could either do what they said....or I would refinance with Wells Fargo or sell my house. Either way, they would be out the money. I closed on the new note a week later....without providing any documentation.

I also was never late on a payment the next 34 months....when I sold the house.

However.....if I had had to go through with providing the documentation ....I would never have received the loan.

I am self employed and a divorced female. Can't get much worse for getting a mortgage. I also think....that having to provide divorce papers 10 years after a divorce is a serious invasion of privacy. 

The difference between myself and many other homeowners getting an ARM....is not that I am smarter or better at handling my finances or more well-off....it's that I may have a better understanding of how an ARM works....simply because I have been in real estate for so long. It's a matter of awareness and knowledge. Many people have absolutely no concept of what their mortgage entails....they are told by the lender how much they can spend, how much the downpayment must be, and what their payment will be. Beyond that...they know nothing....rarely are loan papers read at a closing before signing. In all my years, I bet not more than 5 buyers have asked for their loan papers prior to signing and most of them were transferees into the area, and their relo companies actually were the ones who reviewed the documents. I have only had 1 read the documents at the closing table.

For example....I'm going to look at cars tomorrow because my lease will be up in September and the Nissan dealership called and said they would pay off my lease if I would get another car from them in the month of March.
The other half is going with me....what I know about cars and negotiating the lease would fit in a thimble with a whole lot of room left over. I'm on my third leased car...and he's negotiated all of them. I know houses ....I don't know cars. So I take someone with me that I trust and who has the knowledge that I don't, to do a good job for me.

House purchases are the same way. If a buyer doesn't know what they are doing...they need to work with a reputable realtor who will also make sure that they are working with a reputable lender....both of which have a responsibility to the buyer to make sure that the buyer understands the entire process of purchasing a home and all the responsibilities that they are taking on with the purchase of that home.

Sadly....some people ....just are convinced they know everything about everything and they know it better than anybody else possibly could. Those individuals are one group of people who tend to get themselves into situations they know nothing about and are too proud to admit they are in trouble and won't ask for help until it is too late to help them out of bad situations.

Even prior to the current mortgage crisis.....lenders did not want houses back. It's amazing to me....how many houses I have seen in foreclosure...that were either never on the market prior to the foreclosure or that the homeowner never contacted the mortgage company until it was too late to save the home.

Many lenders...especially now....will hold off on foreclosure....provided the house is listed with a reputable real estate firm and is actively being marketed. The lender will agree to a short sale (less than what is owed on the property)....because in many instances, it will still save the lender money rather than foreclosing.
I agree totally.  That is why I requested the documents I would be signing a day ahead of time and then had a real estate lawyer review them with me.  There weren't any surprises in the document, but at least I wanted someone with knowledge of the law to look at them.

I don't know much about car leases either.  My usual operation is to buy a vehicle that was leased and is in good condition, then drive it for the next ten years.  Of course, that isn't a realistic option for a realtor.
There comes a time when even good men must run up the black flag of anarchy and slit throats. - H.L. Mencken

Offline debk

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Re: primitives want free houses
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2009, 01:52:03 AM »
I agree totally.  That is why I requested the documents I would be signing a day ahead of time and then had a real estate lawyer review them with me.  There weren't any surprises in the document, but at least I wanted someone with knowledge of the law to look at them.

I don't know much about car leases either.  My usual operation is to buy a vehicle that was leased and is in good condition, then drive it for the next ten years.  Of course, that isn't a realistic option for a realtor.


For some reason, when I leased my Murano, Nissan was doing a 39 month lease with 39000 miles. My lease in up in September and I have 21000 on it so far. Most of those are highway miles, because it's been to Akron OH 3x's, once to Nashville, and once over to the Carolina coast.

I don't drive anymore than what I have too....not because of the miles or gas...but because I don't like to drive.

It will be interesting to see what they have to say. They must be pretty anxious...the guy has called me 3x's to make sure that I am coming in. He said he didn't think I would have to put any money down....to which I said that was a good thing, because I didn't have it right now. My payment has to stay where it is or lower. He said that wouldn't be a problem. I figure this is entirely too good to be completely true.  :uhsure:
Just hand over the chocolate...back away slowly...far away....and you won't get hurt....

Save the Earth... it's the only planet with chocolate.

"My therapist told me the way to achieve true inner peace is to finish what I start. So far I've finished two bags of M&M's and a chocolate cake. I feel better already." – Dave Barry

A balanced diet is chocolate in both hands.

Offline Vagabond

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Re: primitives want free houses
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2009, 06:44:06 AM »
For some reason, when I leased my Murano, Nissan was doing a 39 month lease with 39000 miles. My lease in up in September and I have 21000 on it so far. Most of those are highway miles, because it's been to Akron OH 3x's, once to Nashville, and once over to the Carolina coast.

I don't drive anymore than what I have too....not because of the miles or gas...but because I don't like to drive.

It will be interesting to see what they have to say. They must be pretty anxious...the guy has called me 3x's to make sure that I am coming in. He said he didn't think I would have to put any money down....to which I said that was a good thing, because I didn't have it right now. My payment has to stay where it is or lower. He said that wouldn't be a problem. I figure this is entirely too good to be completely true.  :uhsure:
The Murano is a good ride, I was impressed with the 2010 model that I rented while I was at the CRC in Georgia.  Right now, they are probably to make any deal that is offered to them within reason.
There comes a time when even good men must run up the black flag of anarchy and slit throats. - H.L. Mencken

Offline debk

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Re: primitives want free houses
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2009, 08:05:07 AM »
The Murano is a good ride, I was impressed with the 2010 model that I rented while I was at the CRC in Georgia.  Right now, they are probably to make any deal that is offered to them within reason.

Mine is a 2006, and I assume he's talking about a 2009. Will let you know what happens.....

[/quote]


I am trying to get over a really good mad.... :censored:

The guy called this morning to make sure that I was coming out to the Nissan place. I ended up getting really busy today, but I still went. Took us a half hour to get there....talked and looked at a 2009 Murano and a 2008 350Z. Both new.

Reiterated when I went this morning that I didn't want a higher payment and I was not putting any money down.

"No problem....we can make this work."....riiiiiight  :censored:

He tells me he's going to go get the finance person to go over the numbers with me.....she was snooty as heck....and tells me that to keep my payments the same, I would have to put down 20-25%. Told her I wasn't going to do that.

She says:  "this is not like getting your utilities turned on!".... :censored: :censored: :censored:

No shit!

I said...this has been a waste my time...I want my keys.

She says...."well, I'm sure we can work something out...."

I said ...."sorry I'm not interested, you've wasted my time and I have stuff to do" and I walked out.

I don't think they expected me to do that.

I would have gone up $100 on my payment, but she made me so mad with her snippy attitude and talking down to me and telling me that I was getting my utilities turned on....that I will probably go to a different Nissan dealership in September unless I go to a different car altogether.

I'm not at all mad that I didn't get a new car....I like my car, and am perfectly fine with waiting until September to figure out what to do......

It was the principle of the thing ....and her attitude! :censored:

Should have known it sounded to good to be true.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 04:19:41 PM by debk »
Just hand over the chocolate...back away slowly...far away....and you won't get hurt....

Save the Earth... it's the only planet with chocolate.

"My therapist told me the way to achieve true inner peace is to finish what I start. So far I've finished two bags of M&M's and a chocolate cake. I feel better already." – Dave Barry

A balanced diet is chocolate in both hands.

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: primitives want free houses
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2009, 08:43:56 AM »
The big risk for the borrower in a normal ARM is that interest rates will rise, resets for for most straightforward ARMs in the current market really should not be anything to particularly fear.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: primitives want free houses
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2009, 08:54:42 AM »
                              FREE
LARGE HOUSE IN GOOD NIEGHBORHOOD
                       Previous owner died of old age.
Would make a perfect starter home for any democrat voter.
                       Collar and long chain included.
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