The Ultimate Class-Warfare Struggle

[LC EFA]

kentuck  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-03-09 01:19 PM
Original message
The Ultimate Class-Warfare Struggle
   
The wealthy bankers and capitalists have finally put the noose around their own necks. And now, they want the rest of the world to save them. A large portion is in danger of collapsing upon itself. Whatever it takes to survive, they will do.

The working and middle-classes are expected to sacrifice whatever it takes to save the capitalist system. Trillions and trillions of dollars are in the pot. If the bankers and capitalists win this war, the poor and working classes will suffer tremendously. Because, it cannot be done without hyper-inflation. Working folks always suffer with inflation. Just as they suffer with the temporary deflation we are experiencing at the moment.

They lose their jobs. They lose their homes. They lose their savings. The only winners in this class struggle are those at the very top. And they can only win with the assistance of their victims. Labor is not going to have any more value than it does at present, once this struggle is finished.

The bankers and capitalists understand that this is a war for their survival. They wish to convince everyone else that their survival also, is dependent upon the present system surviving. Many, if not most, agree with the capitalists and the bankers. We are at their mercy. And, in the end, they will show no mercy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5176039

I'm still waiting for the part where the proletariat rises and unseats the bourgeoisie capitalist pigs, and everyone lives happily ever after with their Free Ponyâ„¢ and "free" healthcare.

leftstreet  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-03-09 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. There are more of Us than there are of Them
   
**** 'em.

We have more rounds than you have targets.

leftstreet  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-03-09 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Why only short term 'nationalization?'
   
Which, by the way, is the wrong term. What they're doing is more like receivership.

Why do you want the Ruling Class to get the toxic-free banks back?

You are an ignorant turdslide.

Can you possibly be so stupid and ignorant of history as to be unable to see the results of what you advocate ?

leftstreet  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-03-09 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. We the People: Set the Rates. Set the Terms.

In which fantasy world is this due to occurr ? Surely you don't actually believe that you would have any say in how a nationalized banking or industrial system operates, unless you think you will be part of the new ruling elite of course.

ljm2002  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-03-09 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
15. We need a jubilee...
   
...in the classical sense, that is when the new rulers would absolve all debt.

It is the only way to reset a system that is terribly out of balance.

It should be done internally in nations, and externally between nations.

There may be fine points, ways it would have to be tuned for our modern world. But basically we need a reset. It's just ridiculous to talk about paying off trillions of dollars that never existed in the first place -- they were insurance taken out again and again on assets that were never worth what the multiple insurance policies had them at.

Friggin' evil idiots.

Absolution of all debt would be catestrophic in anything more than a small feudal monarchy/ kingdom. You advocate doing that on a global scale ?

I sure hope you're prepared for the results of that.

leftofthedial  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-03-09 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
17. Where is the bottom?
   
Edited on Tue Mar-03-09 02:11 PM by leftofthedial
There is only enough actual wealth in the world to support about 1% of the world's current lifestyle. Capitalism has been so popular because it gave people a way to pretend that the other 99% was there. Of course, this other 99% is completely imaginary--it is nothing but imaginary air inside an imaginary balloon. For years, the high priests of monetarism have broken out their imaginary bicycle tire pumps at any sign of the imaginary balloon starting to lose some of its imaginary air. They'd pump away madly and chant the sacred and magic words ("lower interest rates" and "free markets" and "invisible hand" and the like) and those whose limos and penthouses depended on a safe cushion of imaginary air would once again pretend that the whole imaginary construct was real. "Oh! I see the air!" I see it! Look! There! You can see it too!" they'd all clammer, their faith restored. Soon the "balloon" would re-inflate and all would be well in free-market land once again.

But now the magic words have lost their power. Now, real people are suffocating because of a real lack of real air to breathe. Hell with balloons. People are turning blue-for real! Now Summers, Geithner, Bernanke, (alas) Obama and other champions of the status quo are madly and mutely pumping their imaginary bicycle pumps, waving their hands and trying to get someone--anyone!--to "see" the imaginary air going back into the imaginary balloon. But without the magic words, they just look foolish. They look more and more like clowns and less and less like priests. And despite the uncounted millions of people turning blue and flopping on the sidewalks of every Main Street in America like so many carp on the banks of some county reservoir, they are using what little is left of our real air to help pump up those penthouses and those limos.

It is times like these and priests like these that cause even the most faithful to doubt.


So where is the bottom? The bottom is either at about the 1% mark, or at whatever point someone who is not a clown claims to see the imaginary air and we all believe him.

Once again the left demonstrates that they have no idea of one of the most fundamental concepts of existance. Wealth is created, there's not just one big shiny pile of "wealth" sitting in a room somewhere for people to take and trade with.

anonymous171  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-03-09 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
20. I will gladly kick the stool from under their feet and watch them hang.
   
Traitors, all of them.

"anonymous171" would be happy to act as executioner once the gestaposomeone had already done the dirty work of capturing and stringing up their enemy. Big brave "anonymous" is nothing but a filthy feculant coward.

[Carl]

Because, it cannot be done without hyper-inflation. Working folks always suffer with inflation.

Congratulations you have just described what IS going to happen because of Os policies.

[jukin]

Class Warfare?

Anybody else see how the ruskies and the chicoms are rolling the magic skittle pooping unicorn rider?

I'm thinking real warfare breaking out.  Good thing we have a president that knows how to use the law system to put down the big bad men of the world.

[USA4ME]

kentuck

Working folks always suffer with inflation.

Another example of how they haven't a clue how economics works.

The "working folks" do better under inflation in this sense; when they purchase durable goods using installment payments (home, auto, major household applicances, etc....), over time they're paying back the loan with cheaper and cheaper dollars.  The one getting the shaft is the one who sold it to them who, had they received a lump sum payment, could have invested that money and at least kept up with inflation.  The wealthy are the one's who don't like inflation, because when they loan out money, they typically receive payments that are worth less and less (because of inflation).

That little tidbit alone completely blows the idiots whole argument out of the water.

.

[The Village Idiot]

Class Warfare?

Anybody else see how the ruskies and the chicoms are rolling the magic skittle pooping unicorn rider?

I'm thinking real warfare breaking out.  Good thing we have a president that knows how to use the law system to put down the big bad men of the world.

China will own all of Asia and Russia will take back most of its old empire. Obama won't do a thing about it.

[The Village Idiot]

Another example of how they haven't a clue how economics works.

The "working folks" do better under infaltion in this sense; when they purchase durable goods using installment payments (home, auto, major household applicances, etc....), over time they're paying back the loan with cheaper and cheaper dollars.  The one getting the shaft is the one who sold it to them who, had they received a lump sum payment, could have invested that money and at least kept up with inflation.  The wealthy are the one's who don't like inflation, because when they loan out money, they typically receive payments that are worth less and less (because of inflation).

That little tidbit alone completely blows the idiots whole argument out of the water.

.

they mean poor, unemployed and fixed income folks I guess. They are gonna be hosed.

[Attero Dominatus]

backtoblue  (42 posts)  Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Tue Mar-03-09 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
28. Feudal
   
We are definitely within a social-warfare state of capitalist greed. The very wealthy bankers, politicians, etc. are the modern day equivalent to feudal kings. They WILL go to war against the poor and middle-class in order to keep their prevalence and power in society.
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And you idiots are calling for a collectivist political system whose followers have murdered of millions of people in the name of their 'utopia.'

[franksolich]

Another example of how they haven't a clue how economics works.

The "working folks" do better under infaltion in this sense; when they purchase durable goods using installment payments (home, auto, major household applicances, etc....), over time they're paying back the loan with cheaper and cheaper dollars.  The one getting the shaft is the one who sold it to them who, had they received a lump sum payment, could have invested that money and at least kept up with inflation.  The wealthy are the one's who don't like inflation, because when they loan out money, they typically receive payments that are worth less and less (because of inflation).

That little tidbit alone completely blows the idiots whole argument out of the water.

Uh-huh. That's why, traditionally farmers (but not franksolich) have liked inflation, because they got more dollars for their crops than what they had borrowed on them earlier in the year.

That's not quite true today, but during the heyday of agriculture in America, it was.

[The Village Idiot]

Uh-huh. That's why, traditionally farmers (but not franksolich) have liked inflation, because they got more dollars for their crops than what they had borrowed on them earlier in the year.

That's not quite true today, but during the heyday of agriculture in America, it was.

when the brown stuff hits the fan, lets not live in the big blue cities. Its not going to be pretty when the shortbuses go Donner Party.

[franksolich]

Does anybody know anything about this bluegrass primitive?

The name's been around for years and years, but I never paid attention.

For some reason, I'm guessing he's probably the local "intellectual," left-wing of course, sitting on a leaning front porch, barefooted, and smoking a corn-cob pipe while explaining Marx and Trotsky to the others.

[Carl]

Another example of how they haven't a clue how economics works.

The "working folks" do better under inflation in this sense; when they purchase durable goods using installment payments (home, auto, major household applicances, etc....), over time they're paying back the loan with cheaper and cheaper dollars.  The one getting the shaft is the one who sold it to them who, had they received a lump sum payment, could have invested that money and at least kept up with inflation.  The wealthy are the one's who don't like inflation, because when they loan out money, they typically receive payments that are worth less and less (because of inflation).

That little tidbit alone completely blows the idiots whole argument out of the water.

.

At what point then does the ratchet up of interest rates occur to deal with that particular problem?

Starting to sound more and more like Carter era doesn`t it.

[diesel driver]

they mean poor, unemployed and fixed income folks I guess. They are gonna be hosed.

Like the DUmmies....

Most of them could stand a good hosing anyway....

[DumbAss Tanker]

Uh-huh. That's why, traditionally farmers (but not franksolich) have liked inflation, because they got more dollars for their crops than what they had borrowed on them earlier in the year.

That's not quite true today, but during the heyday of agriculture in America, it was.

In general, wage earners who are living month-to-month (Or hand-to-mouth) are the least-harmed population in periods of inflation, and as you point out can even benefit from what is effect a form of currenly speculation.  Assuming their pay is being increased proportionally with the inflation rate, the only real harm these workers suffer is to long-term savings, but if they don't really have any, that's not much of an issue.   

[Wineslob]

Teh stoopid is so strong in this thread. My God, these idiots never cease to amaze revolt me.

[USA4ME]

At what point then does the ratchet up of interest rates occur to deal with that particular problem?

Starting to sound more and more like Carter era doesn`t it.

Oh, no doubt.

One of the biggest gripes of the Keynesian economists during the first few years of Reagan was Volker moving up interest rates in order to try and kill the high inflation.  Reagan wasn't too fond of it either, and for a different reason, because it was happening on his watch, but to get inflation in check Volker had no choice.

But back to the Keynesians, their main objection was that the upward inflation was helping the "working class" by allowing them to make installment purchases and paying it back with cheaper and cheaper dollars.  Problem is if you keep doing that, eventually the inflation is so out of control it absolutely crushes the whole economy.  This is where the populist's step in and say "Good, it'll take everyone down and level the playing field."  But I've lost count of how many nations became or maintained greatness by making sure everyone was the same.  Someone will have to remind me of that number again.

.

[Ree]

Oh, no doubt.

One of the biggest gripes of the Keynesian economists during the first few years of Reagan was Volker moving up interest rates in order to try and kill the high inflation.  Reagan wasn't too fond of it either, and for a different reason, because it was happening on his watch, but to get inflation in check Volker had no choice.

But back to the Keynesians, their main objection was that the upward inflation was helping the "working class" by allowing them to make installment purchases and paying it back with cheaper and cheaper dollars.  Problem is if you keep doing that, eventually the inflation is so out of control it absolutely crushes the whole economy.  This is where the populist's step in and say "Good, it'll take everyone down and level the playing field."  But I've lost count of how many nations became or maintained greatness by making sure everyone was the same.  Someone will have to remind me of that number again.

.

0

[BlueStateSaint]

Oh, no doubt.

One of the biggest gripes of the Keynesian economists during the first few years of Reagan was Volker moving up interest rates in order to try and kill the high inflation.  Reagan wasn't too fond of it either, and for a different reason, because it was happening on his watch, but to get inflation in check Volker had no choice.

But back to the Keynesians, their main objection was that the upward inflation was helping the "working class" by allowing them to make installment purchases and paying it back with cheaper and cheaper dollars.  Problem is if you keep doing that, eventually the inflation is so out of control it absolutely crushes the whole economy.  This is where the populist's step in and say "Good, it'll take everyone down and level the playing field."  But I've lost count of how many nations became or maintained greatness by making sure everyone was the same.  Someone will have to remind me of that number again.

.

As Ree pointed out above this post, it's a whole number, but not an integer.

[The Village Idiot]

Assuming their pay is being increased proportionally with the inflation rate

it won't. there is usually a pretty good lag time isn't there?