Greenbriar Primitive F*cks Up and Raises A Soldier. DUmmies Aghast...

[asdf2231]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5061479

greenbriar  (1000+ posts)      Sun Feb-15-09 09:02 PM
Original message
I just found out my Daughter joined the army grrrrrrr I need hugs
She is graduating High School 1 year early

she has a 3.8 GPA

she won a huge scholarship in a school of Engineering

and I just found out she joined the Army and her dad my hubby gave his blessing

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Hats off to you child and give 'em Hell!

greenbriar  (1000+ posts)      Sun Feb-15-09 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. her uncle joined last year (leaving his x and 2 beautiful children)
 and he has led her to believe it is a lot of fun and exciting

she went to stay with him on base a couple of times and thinks it is a fun party atmosphere


I don't know what all the details are

I was so pissed I couldn't continue the discussion

omega minimo (1000+ posts)        Sun Feb-15-09 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. military marketing portrays it as "fun and exciting" on TV and elsewhere

southerncrone  (1000+ posts)      Sun Feb-15-09 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. Why did she do such a thing?
 Edited on Sun Feb-15-09 09:08 PM by southerncrone
Was it the recruiters at her school?

They are at the school where I teach about once a week now. It breaks my heart to see the kids gather 'round them to get the goodies they give out, knowing full well they are only considering joining because the don't feel they have any other viable options. Poor kids with limited work or college opportunities.

msongs  (1000+ posts)      Sun Feb-15-09 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. kid & hubby didn't tell you in advance? it was total complete surprise? wow! 
 if she is underage you mayy have a say in the matter if you choose to exercise it.

I thought effective communication was a valuable skill for the army (except at the command level in the Bush gang).

Msongs
 

greenbriar  (1000+ posts)      Sun Feb-15-09 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. I knew she wanted to do this
 but I thought she knew how I felt


She will be almost 18 when she graduates HS

I really at this point do not have a say in it



hubby says he is not thrilled with it, but he accepts it and doesn't want the military to drive a wedge in our relationship with her.

Says it is better to accept it then to have her just run off and do it

omega minimo (1000+ posts)        Sun Feb-15-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. i'm sorry greenbriar 
 sounds like another wedge is being driven here.



"Says it is better to accept it then to have her just run off and do it"

or encourage her to have a realistic view of the Army and of her options.

Engineering scholarship! Is that a problem?

CaliforniaPeggy  (1000+ posts)        Sun Feb-15-09 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. My dear greenbriar! 
 I am just sickened to hear this...

To throw away her scholarship too...

Oh god.

I wish there were some way you could show her how life in the Army really is.

Hugs to you, sweetie...

Chulanowa (1000+ posts)      Sun Feb-15-09 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
20. What it sounds like to me...
 Is a teenager clamping onto an idea that will seem good for a week, before she flits to some other "cool thing". At seventeen years old, even as smart as she obviously is, I don't think she really comprehends that she'll be giving eight years of her life to a profession that has a fair chance of her getting killed. You need to really talk to her, and call that uncle to task.

Sad reality is, with the army in the state its in now, her education won't count for shit - she'll be tossed in with hte grunts no matter where she tries to land.
 

Horse with no Name  (1000+ posts)        Sun Feb-15-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Exactly.
 My brother was guaranteed an "x" amount of dollars for education by the recruiters.
After he signed the papers, he noticed it was left out--so he tried to get them to fix it.
I'll give you two guesses on what answer they gave and the first one doesn't count.
Luckily for him (I guess), the military is a good fit and he loves it. Good thing because he would be paying for his education since Uncle Sam cheated him out of his promised money.

Sydnie  (1000+ posts)        Sun Feb-15-09 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
18. Oh dear Greenbriar
 I am so sorry to hear that she made this choice against your wishes. Both of my children know that I wouldn't be pleased if they did something like this. I won't even condone them dating someone in ROTC!

Let the anger pass then talk to her again about how tough it is for a woman in the military. Tell her to get her degree first and if she still wants to do this thing, she can join as an officer with a degree in engineering. You still have some time before the end of the school year to help her change her mind ... once the anger passes.

[asdf2231]

Another nugget of genius from Horse With No Brain:

Horse with no Name  (1000+ posts)        Sun Feb-15-09 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
23. Uck.
 If nothing else, make sure she knows this one thing.
She has the RIGHT to leave boot camp at any time if she does not like it and she does NOT have to fulfill her obligation until AFTER boot camp is finished. That is something the recruiters won't tell you but it is the truth (my brother is a Drill Instructor so I know of what I speak).
Have you shown her the statistics on rape/suicide in the military?
I'm in awe of your restraint. My daughters would have to join over my dead body. And I mean that. Literally.

And someone else chimes in with this:

noamnety  (1000+ posts)        Sun Feb-15-09 09:26 PM
Original message
Sounds like she is in the delayed entry program right now.
 She does NOT have to report, if she's signed up for DEP, which means this is a done deal for her emotionally, but legally it's not.

That's an important detail.

I think if you tell her not to go, she will dig her feet in further and just resent it. At this point you might be better off talking about related options. I'd push the advantages of doing ROTC in college instead of enlisting right away, because then when she finishes college the army can pay off any outstanding loans AND she can work toward the GI bill for grad school. In the end, financially, she'd be in a better position. And it puts her in a position where she could do what my husband does - work on an army post as an engineer, which pays about 4 times more than what the enlisted folks are making - and they actually picked up his entire tab for grad school without him ever enlisting. The option is there to serve overseas, but also the option is there for him to walk away if he ever wants. (I doubt he will, he's got 20 years in now, but having the option puts you in a whole different mindset.)

More hardcore antirecruitment stuff would come from watching the winter soldier testimonies online, and The Ground Truth. And please - get her signed up for a women's self-defense course before she reports, if there's no talking her out of enlisting.

  Because we ALL know soldiers are ****ing rapists at heart... Right? 

 

[djones520]

Ummm...  before she even took that Oath of Enlistment she signed a contract with the United States Government.  She DOES NOT have the right to just leave during Basic Training.

Hell, you can be prosecuted for breaking your contract even before you swear into active duty.

[Mike220]

If nothing else, make sure she knows this one thing. She has the RIGHT to leave boot camp at any time if she does not like it and she does NOT have to fulfill her obligation until AFTER boot camp is finished.

I think the military even has a name for that... Desertion.

[rich_t]

Good for the daughter.

[rich_t]

Ummm...  before she even took that Oath of Enlistment she signed a contract with the United States Government.  She DOES NOT have the right to just leave during Basic Training.

Hell, you can be prosecuted for breaking your contract even before you swear into active duty.

She can actually be released under the TDP (Trainee Discharge Program) while in bootcamp if she is unable to complete the training.  Willful failure to follow orders got two of my fellow trainees released under that progarm in 1984.  I suspect such discharges are still available to commanders.  They used to be considered "for the good of the service" type of discharge.

The US Armed Forces really doesn't want folks that don't want to be there.  The training costs too much.

[djones520]

She can actually be released under the TDP (Trainee Discharge Program) while in bootcamp if she is unable to complete the training.  Willful failure to follow orders got two of my fellow trainees released under that progarm in 1984.  I suspect such discharges are still available to commanders.  They used to be considered "for the good of the service" type of discharge.

The US Armed Forces really doesn't want folks that don't want to be there.  The training costs to much.

Yeah, but thats up to the Commander to decide.  Not the trainee.

[Traveshamockery]

greenbriar  (1000+ posts)      Sun Feb-15-09 09:02 PM
Original message
I just found out my Daughter joined the army grrrrrrr I need hugs
She is graduating High School 1 year early

she has a 3.8 GPA

she won a huge scholarship in a school of Engineering

and I just found out she joined the Army and her dad my hubby gave his blessing

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Quick!  Send that girl a copy of the movie Private Benjamin with Goldie Hawn 'cus I'm sure that's really what it's like being in the Army. 

[rich_t]

Yeah, but thats up to the Commander to decide.  Not the trainee.

I concur, I was merely pointing out that such seperations are available.

http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r635_200.pdf


Army Regulation 635–200
Personnel Separations
Active Duty Enlisted
Administrative Separations

Chapter 11
Entry Level Performance and Conduct

11–1. General
This chapter sets policy and provides guidance for the separation of soldiers because of unsatisfactory performance
and/or conduct while in entry-level status.

11–2. Basis for separation
Separation of a soldier in entry level status may be warranted on the grounds of unsatisfactory performance and/or
unsatisfactory conduct as evidenced by—
a. Inability.
b. Lack of reasonable effort.
c. Failure to adapt to the military environment.
d. Minor disciplinary infractions.

[rich_t]

Quick!  Send that girl a copy of the movie Private Benjamin with Goldie Hawn 'cus I'm sure that's really what it's like being in the Army. 

Or a copy of Stripes with Bill Murray.

 

[docstew]

I'll say congratulations to the daughter for making an honorable decision despite the toxic environment she was rasied in.

I'll also say that if the DUmmies don't like the military, we will more than gladly let them defend themselves.

[rich_t]

I was pleased as all get out when my son asked me to go to the recruiters office with him.

He is now in Iraq (he volunteered to go) and doing well for himself.

How many 21 year old Dumpmonkey kids have $12k in the bank that they have earned for themselves?

My son takes a great deal of pride in earning his own way in life.  I wonder where he learned that from?

[Vagabond]

The only problem I have with this is the Dad had to sign paperwork to allow her to sign before she was eighteen.  I just think they should have at least hit the age where they can enter into the contract freely and of their own capacity, not someone else saying it's okay.

Plus, how did she not know?  She went to the DEP station to sign the contract.  Did she think her daughter stayed at a friends house for the better part of at least two days?  Greenbriar is either missing somenthing or not telling something.

Otter than that.  HOOAH!

[rich_t]

The only problem I have with this is the Dad had to sign paperwork to allow her to sign before she was eighteen.  I just think they should have at least hit the age where they can enter into the contract freely and of their own capacity, not someone else saying it's okay.

Plus, how did she not know?  She went to the DEP station to sign the contract.  Did she think her daughter stayed at a friends house for the better part of at least two days?  Greenbriar is either missing somenthing or not telling something.

Otter than that.  HOOAH!

Greenbriar is a DUmmy and therefore lies.. lies all the time.

But... One does not go to a DEP station.  You are thinking of a MEP station.  That is where a potential recruit takes the formal ASVAB and medical physical.  They then sit down with a "rep" to discuss their MOS options.  It takes about 8-12 hours depending on the MEP station.

The DEP is merely a Delayed Entry Program contract with the US Armed Services.  It has been around for decades. It has it's good points and it's bad.  It does NOTapply only to those under 18 (though it frequently is used that way).  It is merely an option to enlist, but put off the report for duty date for up to a year.  Some college students use it.

It can also be used to put yourself in a "holding pattern" while waiting for your AIT school to have a slot for you.  Some schools can be over a year in duration and are booked in advance.

I have known kids that signed up under the DEP program that failed to make the DoD weight standards at the end of their delayed entry period and were therefore not allowed to enlist.

<edit to add>

They incurred no penalties for it.

[Vagabond]

Greenbriar is a DUmmy and therefore lies.. lies all the time.

But... One does not go to a DEP station.  You are thinking of a MEP station.  That is where a potential recruit takes the formal ASVAB and medical physical.  They then sit down with a "rep" to discuss their MOS options.  It takes about 8-12 hours depending on the MEP station.

The DEP is merely a Delayed Entry Program contract with the US Armed Services.  It has been around for decades. It has it's good points and it's bad.  It does NOTapply only to those under 18 (though it frequently is used that way).  It is merely an option to enlist, but put off the report for duty date for up to a year.  Some college students use it.

It can also be used to put yourself in a "holding pattern" while waiting for your AIT school to have a slot for you.  Some schools can be over a year in duration and are booked in advance.

I have known kids that signed up under the DEP program that failed to make the DoD weight standards at the end of their delayed entry period and were therefore not allowed to enlist.

Your right, I couldn't remember MEP, since that was about fifteen years ago now.  But I figured there was a good chance that to go to the MEP station involved at least a bus trip and an overnight stay at the MEP contracted hotel.

My MEP was in Birmingham, AL.  I'm from Cantonment, FL.  That meant a van ride, an overnight, MEP processing, and then either a ride back home or off to basic training.

[rich_t]

Your right, I couldn't remember MEP, since that was about fifteen years ago now.  But I figured there was a good chance that to go to the MEP station involved at least a bus trip and an overnight stay at the MEP contracted hotel.

My MEP was in Birmingham, AL.  I'm from Cantonment, FL.  That meant a van ride, an overnight, MEP processing, and then either a ride back home or off to basic training.

I learned when my son enlisted, that even if the MEP is local, the recruiters prefer to put them up in a local hotel anyway.  I drove him to that hotel personally.

He enlisted, and I was proud to be there when he took his oath.  I then drove him back to his apartment.  His "report to duty date" was a few weeks out.  He is a reservist.

But when I enlisted, it was what you recall.  Went to the MEP, took the ASVAB and physical, picked my MOS and was on a bus to the airport about about 2 hours later to attend bootcamp.

[DumbAss Tanker]

She can actually be released under the TDP (Trainee Discharge Program) while in bootcamp if she is unable to complete the training.  Willful failure to follow orders got two of my fellow trainees released under that progarm in 1984.  I suspect such discharges are still available to commanders.  They used to be considered "for the good of the service" type of discharge.

The US Armed Forces really doesn't want folks that don't want to be there.  The training costs too much.

It's not a RIGHT to leave, it's a "Can't hack it" separation in the first 180 days, uncharacterized and under Chapter 11 of AR 635-200 (it's been the same chapter for many, many years).  The call as to whether the Soldier can or can't hack it is NOT the Soldier's call to make or card to play, it's strictly for the cadre, ultimately the company, battalion, and brigade commanders.  And yes, taking it on your own, even during that first 180 days (if she was silly enough to think anyone on DU knew what they were talking about), would be Desertion, and it gets hard time these days, not just a bad admin sep.

[Carl]

It is impossible to guess but I think there is a better then good chance that the daughter is trying to get away from greenbriar and her lunacy.
No doubt all she has heard growing up is what a terrible country this is and maybe she has become sickened by that and wishes to serve.

That is if the story is true at all,this one would not hesitate to make up the whole thing setting the stage for a bouncy down the road of some kind.

[BlueStateSaint]

It is impossible to guess but I think there is a better then good chance that the daughter is trying to get away from greenbriar and her lunacy.
No doubt all she has heard growing up is what a terrible country this is and maybe she has become sickened by that and wishes to serve.

That is if the story is true at all,this one would not hesitate to make up the whole thing setting the stage for a bouncy down the road of some kind.

Where do I start?  Hell, neighbor, your whole post is probably on target.  H5.

[Traveshamockery]

I've never been in the military but my sister joined the Navy in 1979 when she was 22 in what I would characterize as a rebellious act against my dad and in an attempt to shake up her life.  She signed up and came home and told my dad so there was no going back.  She was pretty miserable in basic training (she was in Pensacola) but as I recall, I don't think it was an option for her to just say she'd had enough and just go back home.  It sounds like basic training was definitely no walk in the park and even the toughest person might want to give up. 

But now in her 50s, she still says being in the Navy was one of the most valuable experiences in her life.  In fact, she was stationed in Adak, Alaska for about two years and she actually could see Russia from her house.  Ha ha! 

Anyway, my point is that it was not an option, in her own mind, to have a dishonorable discharge.  Isn't a dishonorable discharge from the military a dishonor no one wants, especially when you leave the military and try to enter the private sector?  Or is it not such an embarrassment anymore

[Flame]

This story sounds like a re-tread...I could swear I heard this same story almost verbatim from the DUmmies before.

[franksolich]

This story sounds like a re-tread...I could swear I heard this same story almost verbatim from the DUmmies before.

Yeah, it's in here somewhere, in the DUmpster.

It was about a year ago that the greenbriar primitive made the announcement.

It's a recycled bonfire, with new details.

[franksolich]

Good for the daughter.

Obviously she got her brains and character from her paternal side.

[jinxmchue]

Yeah, they support the troops MY ASS.        ****ers.

CaliforniaPeggy  (1000+ posts)        Sun Feb-15-09 09:12 PM

I wish there were some way you could show her how life in the Army really is.

How the **** would you know "how life in the Army really is."  Have you ever been in the Army, you ****ing bitch?  NO!  You haven't.  So SHUT THE **** UP!

[miskie]

Sorry DUmmies - the " Nobody knows what the Army is really like " meme is dead because of you and your leftist friends in the media who glorify every American death in the 'immoral and illegal war' - If she made this choice she did it full-well knowing the worst and then some. Kudos to her and to all the other brave patriots who enlist, even during times of war.